Salt Mixes

[bangai64]

I've been using red sea coral pro for some time now. Mixing it in a 50 gallon barrel connected to my water exchange system. Problem is, it's not clean. After a while it builds up a dirty grey residue on the bottom of the barrel. Reef crystals used to do the same thing. Eventually clogging up my water lines and always having to blow them put. Can't be good for the tank either. Worried about phosphates.

BRS carries HW-Marine which is synthetic. They claim no residue or debris like the other dehydrated sea water salts such as RED Sea.

Also thinking of switching back to good ole' instant ocean. I think it's pretty clean.

Any thoughts?

 

[ClownMan727]

I was reading a post online about Instant Ocean leaving residue in the mixing barrel. The person called and asked IO why it was doing this and what it was that was left over after mixing. IO said that what was left behind were trace elements that did not dissolve due to improper mixing. IO recommends that you bring your RO water up to temp before adding the salt mix. Then add the salt slowly to ensure a good mix.

What are you using to mix the water? Also, are you aerating for 24hrs as recommended?

 

[snake1]

I just mix my io reef crystals in a brute container and I have no residue it mixes fully clear in one hour and then I use it ..the only thing I can say is when I don't wipe out the brute after use it builds a brownish tan color calcium build up after weeks ..nothing a little vinegar can't remove....I'm curious as to what you are seeing left over after it mixes...

 

[JVD BVI]

Honestly I think they all leave some type of residue

 

[bangai64]

Probably so.

 

[Specfishin]

I was reading a post online about Instant Ocean leaving residue in the mixing barrel. The person called and asked IO why it was doing this and what it was that was left over after mixing. IO said that what was left behind were trace elements that did not dissolve due to improper mixing. IO recommends that you bring your RO water up to temp before adding the salt mix. Then add the salt slowly to ensure a good mix.

What are you using to mix the water? Also, are you aerating for 24hrs as recommended?

IIRC red sea says to mix cold until clear and bring to DT temp before adding. I've had a batch that left a light tan gunk on bottom of barrel but since then I've only mixed as needed and added hours later barely anything in bottom. Personally I've been cleaning the brute out once a month with hose water, a little hand rub and an air dry before reusing. And for a little I used IO reef crystals, had the same residue. So I think it only matters how you mix and how long it sits in storage. Good luck with all the opinions out there.

 

[rogergolf66]

Simple answer. ESV is the cleanest mixing salt. U would need to mix 1,000 plus gal to see very small amounts of residue. Faois has the best price

 

[bangai64]

Thanks for the input guys.

Hey Roger... Is ESV a PIA to mix though. It's not like the others is it. I'm not sure the procedure, but heard it was more involved.

 

[oblio]

I was reading a post online about Instant Ocean leaving residue in the mixing barrel. The person called and asked IO why it was doing this and what it was that was left over after mixing. IO said that what was left behind were trace elements that did not dissolve due to improper mixing. IO recommends that you bring your RO water up to temp before adding the salt mix. Then add the salt slowly to ensure a good mix.

What are you using to mix the water? Also, are you aerating for 24hrs as recommended?

So more often than not I get this brown stuff in the bottom of the mixing tank, real faint, also gets on the glass top when air rating, the bubbles bursting at the surface sling stuff up to the glass. Using Reef Crystals, it always bothered me but I'm so careful I figured it was simply dust in the air from the air pump. But reading the above response from IO it may be just simply adding the salt at a slower rate might solve this issue. I noticed that sometimes it was there, sometimes not, other than the way I dump the salt in I do everything else the same. Thanks for that post, I'm going to simply add slower and see if I get more consistent results. OP, maybe just try adding the salt more slowly?

 

[rogergolf66]

Thanks for the input guys.

Hey Roger... Is ESV a PIA to mix though. It's not like the others is it. I'm not sure the procedure, but heard it was more involved.

Yes it is more work. If u have a large enough barrel to make it in? I'm sure u can buy it is say a 50gal mix so u wouldn't have to measure it out. Just dump it all in. Just a thought. If not each part heads to be measured.

Roger

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

If you measure by weight it gets a little easier if you note the weights needed,
then you have them ready next time.
I know there is a 50 & 100 gallon package.

 

[robthorn]

Esv is still dirty. At least the 3 batches I used and the 3 or 4 my buddy Shaun used. Exact reason we stopped using it. Batch to batch weights are different I can only assume according how much moisture is included. It was fun for a short time but not worth the headache for us.

 

[ClownMan727]

Anybody use water from the gulf. Take a boat out a few miles and get it?

 

[Postal]

Esv is still dirty. At least the 3 batches I used and the 3 or 4 my buddy Shaun used. Exact reason we stopped using it. Batch to batch weights are different I can only assume according how much moisture is included. It was fun for a short time but not worth the headache for us.

That is extremely odd. I have used ESV for several years without ever having a dirty batch. It mixes crytal clear within a couple of minutes and stays that way. I have left a batch running in an open Brute can for up to a week at a time without any issues, and have used it for a large change in a clownfish fry tank within 15 minutes of mixing without issue. Never had to clean out one of my cans from ESV in years of use (as opposed to monthly cleaning of Reef Crytals residue).
Yes, it is a little more expensive and takes a couple minutes to measure vs 30 seconds or so, but it is well worth it. I am surprised that anyone that complains that it is more difficult to mix is still in the hobby, since there are plenty of other things in the hobby that are much more work than simply measuring out 2 solid and 2 liquid components to mix ESV.

 

[robthorn]

I haven't found a salt yet that doesn't leave junk behind. Glad someone else has better luck. You would think after doing this over 20 years I would know how to get magical results. If you use it within an hour I would not expect a residue but I don't normally do that.

Not sure if esv users have found an extra little trick to stop some precipitation when adding the last liquid. Dilute it in approximately a quarter with ro/di water and no more cloud when you dump it in.

 

[ichthyman]

I make nearly 1,000 gallons of ESV seawater a week. The ONLY time values are off, any more than the variance of the test kits used, is when the starting water volume is estimated incorrectly or measuring is done via volume opposed to weight. Nothing magical involved but the product also mixes clear without residue or precipitate each time. The only dirtiness in my mixing vat is from RC or IO when ESV runs out.

 

[ichthyman]

Anybody use water from the gulf. Take a boat out a few miles and get it?

Yes, for a few years during my internship at the Clearwater Marine Science Center. Water was extracted several miles into the Gulf and ~20-30 feet below the surface. Later the seawater was heavily chlorinated and mechanically filtered to remove planktonic life. Then chemically filtered for chlorine and other contaminates. Collection, purification and holding procedures for natural seawater can be found in old hobby literature written by Moe and Spotte.

 

[robthorn]

When you pour the last part in it clouds as you pour it in. Disipates quickly. I have been told that last bottle is the alk portion. Only way I can explain the reaction is precipitation. Next time you make a batch pour a small amount of the last liquid in. Notice the cloud then stop. If it doesn't do it I can only explain it as magic. It happens to both Shaun and I and our ro membranes and di resin are from faois. Not going to find any better around. If it clouds dilute it as suggested in my previous post. Its at least worth a try in the name of science right?

As for the measurement I use a jewelers scale with a resolution of .01 grams and every single component every single time was measured to within .01 grams.
I am not talking about 1ppm difference. It was more like 50 to 100.

Shaun brought this to your attention as well. You know us John. We are not at least complete idiots.
Both of our water barrells have distinct markings where we do our water changes. Mine is 20gallons ish and his is 25. Only thing that matters is stopping at the same line or close to it every time.
Funny thing is I made Brightwell before kent took over and Reef Crystals and Instant Ocean and they were all more consistent by the same jewelers scale.
I don't mean to bash the product because it is a good one it's just not the perfection some claim.
Just for note when I started my tank with esv it was the first salt mixed in the barrell with a brand new tunze to mix it.

 

[ichthyman]

Believe it or not, I watch the reaction every morning while mixing batches. Localized temporary cloudiness from the addition of the last liquid is rapidly dissipated by the vat's mixing pump, however, no precipitate nor residue is formed. This is my experience along with most other users of the product I have spoken with. With that said, your procedures are not my procedures and, as such, results will vary.

Our hobbyist level test kits are simply not precise enough for me to get bent over minor differences. I don't know what chemical you are referencing but for a parameter such a Mg, 50 to 100 ppm is under a 10% variance. As a point of reference, most digital meters used in the hobby have a +/- of 4% while manual kits are significantly higher.

Never claimed perfection but after many conversations with the folks at ESV, I am more confident of the consistency and methodology of their salt than any other currently on the market. Furthermore, although popular I believe the concept of a single-part homogeneous salt mix to be flawed. A lengthy conversation perhaps best done in person. Now because I'm treading dangerously close to the commercial line I will bow out of this conversation.

 

[Mrs Postal]

As the day laborer in this hobby, I have make ESV in 25 gallon increments w/o any problem several times each month for probably over 2 years. It's easy to measure the 4 components and I am able to do a water change w/in minutes of making it and it is always accurate at 1.025 each time. There is never any residue in the can and there never has been. Can't say that about any other salt that we have used over the years. I don't know that we will ever go back to something that takes up to 24 hours to mix...