Sea Shepherd Launches Operation Reef Defense Campaign in Hawaii

You tell 'em KafudaDoc!!

Meat is awesome! Had a 1" thick ribeye last night.. And a huge pile of fried shrimp!!
 
rrasco said:
I wonder if corals feel pain. Do they have a central nervous system?
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no central nervous system. but that for sure is an interesting topic ... pain in general is. even in humans, we had to take a 1 year course, just on pain, for biomed.

there was a research done here [Guelph university] where they used cardiogram, to see if plants feel . interestingly, the plant responded to its leafs being cut, and also responded to its leafs being cleaned ! they respond great to music and .. as well ! there are grape farms around the world, where they play music for their trees ! the trees close to the source grew more !

of course, all these could be dependant on the vibration of music and ... , and even if not, we would never understand what actually goes on for the plant or corals but ....
 
I guess the mythbusters got that one wrong then. I think they did it over a very short term though. And like you said, it could be from unobserved variables in the test. Interesting to say the least.
 
I can see where the pain issue could get confusing. After all, are we looking for a scream or a response? I know from my Kenya Trees that they definitely respond to things we'd consider painful. Cut off a branch and the whole colony will jerk back instantly and shrivel up. Who knows if it feels it in any way, since it doesn't make noise we can hear. It may just be responding to a threat and triggering a survival instinct that tells it to shrivel up until whatever took out part of the colony goes away. But then, that seems to be exactly what a pain response is designed to due for animals/humans. So in the end, is it the screaming that makes it pain or the response?

Let's hope Sea Shepherd doesn't think of these types of things...
 
Khemul said:
I can see where the pain issue could get confusing. After all, are we looking for a scream or a response? I know from my Kenya Trees that they definitely respond to things we'd consider painful. Cut off a branch and the whole colony will jerk back instantly and shrivel up. Who knows if it feels it in any way, since it doesn't make noise we can hear. It may just be responding to a threat and triggering a survival instinct that tells it to shrivel up until whatever took out part of the colony goes away. But then, that seems to be exactly what a pain response is designed to due for animals/humans. So in the end, is it the screaming that makes it pain or the response?

Let's hope Sea Shepherd doesn't think of these types of things...
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My Euphyllia will do the same thing if I put my fingers near them and touch them so I don't think we can assume that it is a pain response.
 
I have spoken with Paul Watson personally (and he has spoken about ME personally). I am good friends with Pete Bethune and Ady Gil who Paul has thrown under the bus. Paul is a huge liar. I am very much into aquaculture and there are for sure some things I agree should be left in the sea, but I can say from very very personal (as in my actual self) he lies about people and I don't put him past lying about anything else at this point either.
 
mcginnisandrew said:
lastly, slapshot, i'm curious. If you don't mind me asking, Do you eat meat? It won't change anything I have already said, I am simply curious.

Jerpa, in order to help us get back on to the topic of complaining about the Sea Sheperds, I'll offer this: We ought to strive to minimize our negative impact on the oceans wherever possible. There may be "some" truth to their claims that our hobby does damage to the oceans, but taking the position of "well commercial fishing is worse" isn't going to help. A better defense is to either show the benefits we have brought to the ocean/world (in conservation, aquaculture, etc), or to work towards even MORE sustainable practices. There is always room for improvement.
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Your not coming across as hateful at all. We shall agree to disagree. I eat meat...rarely. Lastly, I totally agree with your last paragraph!
 
kafudafish said:
i think i agree with we shall agree to disagree statement.

I do wonder how this statement can even begin to make any sense when discussing eating meat vs. Plants. There is a huge difference between racism and "œshowing a bias for your own species". This bias is found throughout the animal kingdom and from your points you seem to believe that we are part of nature instead of being excluded from it due to technology like some.

It sounds like peter singer is confusing racism with altrusim because i am concerned about the welfare of my family in regards to diet. Yes i do care about my family much more than i do other people too. I suppose the question must be asked is why do we eat meat? Is it because bacon tastes good? Yes. Is it because it allowed our ancestors to have more free time and got us out of caves? Yes. Is it because our teeth have different shapes and the amount of enamel we have is much less compared to a herbivore? Yes.

You keep stating that this should not be a moral issue yet you keep making points that it should be considered one.

Lastly one area that many fail when trying to convince others of their point of view is they alienate others at the beginning and then devote their remaining energy on trying to get their audience on board.

Even if singer was 100% correct i have a very hard giving him the time for a moment's thought to his side of the argument because according to him, because i show bias towards my own species and therefore i am a racist.

Few people would consider being called a racist acceptable especially when one does not think that way.

For example if you think about it the ss has made a "œmoral" choice to save the reefs. I bet if we took a poll and asked the question, "œis saving the environment/reefs important to you?" we would get a majority response of yes and on rc we would probably get 95+%. But if we asked the question, "œdo you support the tactics of the ss and other similar organizations to save the environment/reefs?" i bet the percentages would be much lower. The ultimate goal is the same but why the difference?

Some would argue that they have taken a moral and ethical purpose and twisted it around for their own gain and therefore their ultimate goal is not to save anything but to make a name for themselves and to increase their bank accounts.

To this day i don't understand how they were never sunk and the japanese did not put their military on these ships and claim they thought terrorists were trying to gain access therefore they had to use force to protect the citizens. Fyi i am against whaling 100% and think that is is total bs that whaling countries conduct "œscientificstudies" on whale populations by taking.

Yes life is all about moral choices but i don't need someone telling me that according to their views my choices are wrong and i am immoral because of that.

Why would i?
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+1
 
Allmost said:
no central nervous system. but that for sure is an interesting topic ... pain in general is. even in humans, we had to take a 1 year course, just on pain, for biomed.

there was a research done here [Guelph university] where they used cardiogram, to see if plants feel . interestingly, the plant responded to its leafs being cut, and also responded to its leafs being cleaned ! they respond great to music and .. as well ! there are grape farms around the world, where they play music for their trees ! the trees close to the source grew more !

of course, all these could be dependant on the vibration of music and ... , and even if not, we would never understand what actually goes on for the plant or corals but ....
Click to expand...


Ahh, back to the needle test. My first martial arts instructor summed it up best to me...."pain is just a feeling, one which we can chose to enjoy or dislike." I say again, who are we to assume the only pain is the way we feel it?
 
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ReeferKimberly said:
I have spoken with Paul Watson personally (and he has spoken about ME personally). I am good friends with Pete Bethune and Ady Gil who Paul has thrown under the bus. Paul is a huge liar. I am very much into aquaculture and there are for sure some things I agree should be left in the sea, but I can say from very very personal (as in my actual self) he lies about people and I don't put him past lying about anything else at this point either.
Click to expand...

In your opinion, is he narcissistic? One aspect of the show that I found particularly disturbing was when he would launch "public education campaigns"/media blitzes where he grossly exaggerated or distorted various events involving the whalers or whoever else crossed his path - it seemed like he was lying (because lying includes such intentional exaggerations in order to manipulate) in order to get his way. Scary stuff...
 
rlpardue said:
In your opinion, is he narcissistic? One aspect of the show that I found particularly disturbing was when he would launch "public education campaigns"/media blitzes where he grossly exaggerated or distorted various events involving the whalers or whoever else crossed his path - it seemed like he was lying (because lying includes such intentional exaggerations in order to manipulate) in order to get his way. Scary stuff...
Click to expand...

Oh my god yes. You should read his "poetry". I would show you but I am blocked from his FB ;)
 
I am waiting for the day they all get crushed by the whales they strive to protect. Certainly the whale will feel remorse.
 
Hits a target directly in the heart, on a oceangoing vessel, in rather choppy seas, from a considerable distance, while perched on another oceangoing vessel, in rather choppy seas. Doesn't use ammo heavy enough to pierce a fake metal badge.

I certainly hope that sniper doesn't really exist. Because if he does, he probably will never live down the ridicule from his peers... :eek1: :lolspin:
 
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