seahorse and Coral

ozzy200769

New member
I am planning another tank, 30g (drilled today) w/
150 watt hqi and cf actinics.
My lfs keeps their seahorses and pipefish in a reef tank,
I would like to know if I can keep coral or just macro's.
Is the lighting going to be to much if I go this route?

Any help is appreciated.
 
You can keep seahorses in a reef tank with some planning. The lighting will not be an issue long term but they may take some acclimation. You will need to keep an eye on temp though with that much lighting. Anything that stings or has tentacles is a bad idea. Seahorses in general are not very tough skined. Seahorse can kill gorgonians because they like to hitch to them. You will have to have corals that do not need much flow, seahorse are not good swimmers. There are some list out there on other sites that show what is safe. seahorse.org is one.
Good luck. Paul
 
Check out this link for a tank mate article.

Tank Mate Guide

I keep a 150w HQI on my seahorse tank. I found I didn't need the actinic supplements if I used the 14K bulbs. You loose the daw to dusk, but . . . it's just easier for me. I do have some LED moonlights I got from Ecosystems.

Temps can be a problem with this type of lighting. I'm kinda lucky on that regard, my home temp has not broken 80 in two years, Usually I need a heater to keep it up to 70F. I do use a fan for the few weeks a year in the summer and I have an iceprobe chiller in the sump as well. Haven't used it yet.

If I lived someplace else, I would not be able to run this tank without a chiller. I had problems with heat with regualr PC lights back in Cali ;).

Do make some spots for shade, my seahorse will play all over the tank, but will also hide out in the "cave" or under the macro for parts of the day.

HTH
 
Ya not many LPS are that great. IME Acans do well as do tubestrea (sun polyps). I have never tried brains myself, just took into account several people who were. Much of my cooler LPS would just eat the seahorse for lunch.

JME

Hope I helped.
 
this was an e-mail that i got from ocean rider about this and other question i had .....

Yes, sir, at the Ocean Rider aquaculture facility a water temperature of 75°F-78°F works very well for all the species of tropical seahorses. But the conditions at the seahorse farm are far different than the conditions in a home hobby tank. The Ocean Rider facility uses an open system for their rearing and grow out tanks, which feature fast enclosures with plenty of roam to roam, ultrapure natural seawater, and lots of natural sunlight. You will be keeping the seahorses in a small, closed-system aquarium with artificial saltwater and artificial lighting. Under those conditions, seahorses such as Mustangs and Sunbursts (Hippocampus erectus) do indeed do best at slightly cooler water temperatures of around 72°F- 75°F, and that is the temperature range you should strive to maintain for best results.

As you said, sir, I don't think you could maintain those water temperatures in a nano tank, particularly the small 12-gallon nano tank. Nano cubes are quite compact and convenient, but they are not the best choice for seahorse keepers. A number of our other members have tried fairly large (24-gallon) Nano cubes for seahorses and found them to be unsatisfactory.


Other Club members who have tried the 24-gallon Nanocube for their seahorses report that it is quite unsuitable right off the shelf and requires substantial modifications in order to make it marginally useful for seahorses. For starters, they have a bad tendency to overheat, the pump needs to be upgraded, it has no means of filtration so you must provide a biofilter of some sort, and small powerheads should be added to eliminate dead spots and improve the circulation. Even with those modifications, you must stock the Nanocube sparingly, be very careful to avoid overfeeding, and practiced an accelerated maintenance schedule, including weekly water changes.


If you want to include some hand-picked compatible corals in your seahorse setup, Dirk, I would suggest that you stick with soft corals which will do well under normal daylight fluorescent lighting. That will help prevent the problem with overheating and you could set up a suitable aquarium quite economically that could house a very nice variety of colorful soft corals.


For example, if you would like to start out with a low budget set up for keeping a single pair of Mustangs or Sunbursts (Hippocampus erectus) along with a few choice soft corals, perhaps the most basic aquarium system I could suggest would be to obtain a 20 gallon Extra-High All-Glass Aquarium (20"L x 10"W x 24"H), equip it with a simple, standard, off-the-shelf glass cover and an off-the-shelf strip reflector with a florescent bulb, and plenty of live rock to provide biofiltration, denitrification ability, and stability.

But if these will be your first seahorses, Dirk, then it's generally best to start out with the largest tank you can reasonably afford and maintain, the taller the better, in order to provide yourself with a comfortable margin for error. The 20-gallon Extra-High All Glass Aquarium we have already discussed is the smallest tank I would consider using for it pair of Mustangs, but if you can afford to spend just a little more than I would suggest the 30 gallon Extra-High All-Glass Aquarium (24"L x 12"W x 24"H), which won't cost much more but which will provide you with a bigger margin for error. Any local fish store can order one for you and it's an economical tank with excellent height for seahorses at 24-inches tall. You can then equip it the same as the 20-gallon tank, using a simple, standard, off-the-shelf glass cover and an ordinary off-the-shelf strip reflector with a daylight florescent bulb, and that can form the basis of an inexpensive yet solid seahorse setup.



A nice selection of well-cured, "debugged" live rock can provide all or most of the biofiltration for such a setup. A simple external hang-on-the-back filter or an efficient canister filter instead that is rated for an aquarium of the size you have chosen could then be added on to provide water circulation, surface agitation for good oxygenation, and the means for providing mechanical and chemical filtration. That would make a relatively inexpensive seahorse setup, and the 30 gallon tank would allow room for a very nice assortment of corals. With the fluorescent lighting, it would be much easier to maintain stable water temperatures in the desired range then it would with a nano tank.



Here are some suggestions for setting up such an aquarium to house corals and seahorses, along with a list of suitable corals you can consider for such a system, Dirk:

A Seahorse Reef


The hobbyists who wants to keep seahorses in a reef system must be willing to make some concessions and modifications to accommodate their special needs nonetheless. For example, the reef keeper must be willing to limit himself to corals and invertebrates that meet the following criteria:



1) Avoid any stinging animals with powerful nematocysts. This means fire corals (Millepora spp.) and anemones should be excluded from the seahorse reef, and any corals with polyps that feel sticky to the touch should be used with discretion and only after careful planning. When a seahorse brushes up against them or attempts to perch on them, the nematocysts or stinging cells of these animals can penetrate the seahorse's skin and damage its integument. Needless to say, this causes pain and discomfort and can leave the seahorse vulnerable to secondary bacterial and fungal infections, which may take hold at the site of injury. Short polyped stony (SPS) corals are generally fine, but large polyped stony (LPS) corals should be regarded with caution, as discussed in more detail below.



2) Water movement and circulation must be relatively mild so that it doesn't overwhelm the seahorses. Corals that require powerful surge or overly strong water currents could overtax the limited swimming ability of Hippocampus unless slack water areas the seahorses can retreat to when needed are also provided.



3) The corals must be able to withstand being used as hitching posts by the seahorses from time to time; that is, they cannot be so delicate that having a seahorse's grasping tail anchored around them could cause them any harm. For instance, soft corals may retract their polyps when a seahorse perches on them. This can be harmful to their health if it becomes a chronic problem, because many corals rely on their polyps to absorb light and convert it to energy via photosynthesis. Be sure to watch any soft corals and hermatypic corals to make sure they are not closed up for extended periods. Normally, they adjust to the seahorses' presence and unwelcome attention after a while, and remain contracted only briefly after each contact. After repeated exposures to grasping tails, each such incident elicits a weaker response, so they tend to extend their polyps sooner and sooner after being disturbed (Delbeek, Oct. 2001).



4) Avoid Tridacna clams and similar bivalve mollusks. Sooner or later a seahorse will perch on them with its tail between the valves and the clam's powerful adductor muscle will clamp down on it like a vise. At best this will be a very stressful experience for the unfortunate seahorse, since it can be the devil's own business trying to persuade the stubborn mollusk to release its struggling victim! At worst, it can result in serious injury or permanent damage to the seahorses tail (Giwojna, unpublished text).



5) Beware of unwanted hitchhikers that may have come in on your live rock unbeknownst to you and which can harm seahorses, such as fireworms, mantis shrimp, or Aptasia rock anemones. When setting up a reef system for seahorses, it's a wise precaution to pre-treat your live rock with a hypersaline bath to drive out such pests beforehand because they can be very difficult to remove or eradicate once they make themselves at home in your aquarium (Giwojna, unpublished text).



As long as the specimens you are considering for your seahorse reef satisfy these requirements, anything goes! Some of the good and bad candidates for such a reef system are discussed below:



Seahorse-Safe Corals



Soft corals have very little stinging ability and generally make good choices for a modified mini reef that will include seahorses (Delbeek, Oct. 2001). This includes most mushroom anemones (corallimorpharians). However, as Charles Delbeek cautions, "One notable exception is the elephant ear mushroom anemone (Amplexidiscus fenestrafer). This animal is an active feeder on small fish and will envelope them whole with its mantle then slowly digest them by extruding its digestive filaments into the space created. No small fish are safe with these animals in the tank (Delbeek, Oct. 2001).".



Hippocampus also does very well with zooanthids and colonial polyps in general. But the hobbyist must be sure to observe a couple of precautions when handling the zoanthids and placing them in your aquarium.



First and foremost, many of the commonly available Zooanthus (button polyps) and Palythoa (sea mats) species contain a very toxic substance in their mucous coat known as palytoxin, which is one of the most poisonous marine toxins ever discovered (Fatherree, 2004). Palytoxin can affect the heart, muscles, and nerves, resulting in paralysis or possibly even death, and many hobbyists have reported numbness, nausea and/or hallucinations after merely touching these corals (Fatherree, 2004). When you handle zoanthids and palythoans, you cannot help picking up some of their protective slime on your fingers, and so much as rubbing your eye, picking your nose, or a small cut on your finger can be enough to land you in the hospital. When handling Zooanthus are Palythoa species, it's very important to wear disposable latex gloves, avoid touching your mouth or eyes, and carefully dispose of the gloves immediately afterwards (Fatherree, 2004).



Secondly, zoanthids and other soft corals such as mushrooms may wage border battles if you place them in close proximity to each other (and the zoanthids almost always lose out to the mushrooms in these skirmishes). So be sure to allow adequate space between the colonies. Some rapidly growing Zooanthus colonies can be aggressive to soft and stony corals alike as they rapidly spread over the rockwork, but in general they are quite peaceful, and you can always slow down their rate of growth by reducing the nutrient loading in the aquarium.



Other low light corals that should be suitable for a seahorse reef include genera such as Cynarina, Scolymia and Trachyphyllia, as well as non-photosynthetic gorgonians such as Subergorgia and Didogorgia, and perhaps wire corals such as Cirripathes spp. (Delbeek, Nov. 2001).. However, supplemental feedings of zooplankton may be required to maintain these corals in good health.



The hard or stony corals fall into two categories depending on the size of their polyps. The small polyped stony (SPS) corals have tiny polyps that extend out of minute openings in the stony skeleton, and generally have weak stings that should not pose a threat to seahorses. Depending on conditions in the tank, SPS corals such as Acropora, Montipora, Pocillipora, Porities, Seriatopora and Stylophora can be tried freely at your discretion (Delbeek, Oct. 2001).



The large polyped stony (LPS) corals, however, are generally best avoided altogether. These include genera such as Catalaphyllia, Cynarina, Euphyllia and Trachyphyllia that have large fleshy polyps which often have tentacles equipped with powerful stinging cells. The Euphyllia and Catalaphyllia have the most powerful nematocysts among the LPS corals, and can deliver stings that are stronger than most anemones (Delbeek, Oct. 2001).



Some of the soft corals and stony corals that generally do well with seahorses in a modified reef tank are listed below. (By no means is this intended to be a comprehensive list, but rather just a few examples of suitable corals to serve as general guidelines when stocking a reef tank that will house seahorses):



Finger Leather Coral (Lobophyton sp.)

Flower Tree Coral - Red / Orange, (Scleronephthya spp.)

aka: Scleronephthya Strawberry Coral, or Pink or Orange Cauliflower Coral

Christmas Tree Coral (Sphaerella spp.)

aka: the Medusa Coral, Snake Locks Coral, or French Tickler

Cauliflower Colt Coral (Cladiella sp.)

aka: Colt Coral, Soft Finger Leather Coral, Seaman's Hands or Blushing Coral.

Toadstool Mushroom Leather Coral (Sarcophyton sp.)

aka: Sarcophyton Coral, Mushroom, Leather, or Trough Corals.

Bullseye Mushroom Coral (Rhodactis inchoata)

aka: Tonga Blue Mushroom, Small Elephant Ear Mushroom (rarely)

Clove Polyps (Clavularia sp.)

Stick Polyp (Parazoanthus swiftii)

Green Daisy Polyps (Clavularia sp.), Indonesia

Orange & Green Colony Button Polyps (Zooanthus sp.), Fiji

Pulsing Corals (Xenia spp.)

Red Ricordea (Ricordea sp.), Indonesia, occasionally Solomon Islands

Lavender Hairy Mushroom (Actinodiscus sp.), Tonga

Pimpled Mushroom (Discosoma sp.), Indonesia

Purple Gorgonians



Aside from corals, other good inverts for seahorses include decorative cleaner shrimp like those listed below:



Peppermint Shrimp (Lysmata wurdemanni)

Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp or Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis)

Fire Shrimp (Lysmata debelius)

Harlequin Shrimp (Hymenocerus elegans and H. picta) - predatory on sea stars;

Assorted Feather Dusters (Sabellastatre magnifica, Sabella sp.) whose colorful crowns resemble gaily-colored parasols.



After the tank has been up and running for several months, you can add a few large Peppermint Shrimp (Lysmata wurdemanni) and/or Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp or Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis) to complete your cleanup crew and add a touch of color and activity to the tank.



Peppermint shrimp (Lysmata wurdemanni) are a favorite with seahorse keepers because they eat Aiptasia rock anemones, and both the peppermints and Scarlet cleaner shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis) will perform another useful service by grooming the seahorses and cleaning them of ectoparasites. As an added bonus, they reproduce regularly in the aquarium, producing swarms of larval nauplii that the seahorses love to eat.



Just remember, it is important to select the largest possible cleaner shrimp for your seahorse tank(s). Seahorses will actively hunt small cleaner shrimp and they are quite capable of killing shrimp that are far too big to swallow whole, so the cleaners need to be large enough that they are not regarded as potential prey.



Aside from seahorse proofing your reef tank, it is also very important to feed the seahorses properly in a complex system, especially if they are kept with active fishes like tangs:



Feeding Seahorses in a Reef Tank



When keeping seahorses in an appropriately elaborate environment, such as a well stocked reef system, it is imperative that you feed them properly! Domesticated seahorses thrive on enriched frozen Mysis as their staple, everyday diet. But the worst thing you can do when feeding the seahorses in a intricate reef or live rock environment is to scatter a handful of frozen Mysis throughout the tank to be dispersed by the currents and hope that the hungry horses can track it all down. Inevitably some of the frozen food will be swept away and lodge in isolated nooks and crannies where the seahorses cannot get it (Giwojna, 2005). There it will begin to decompose and degrade the water quality, which is why ammonia spikes are common after a heavy feeding. Or it may be wafted out into the open again later on and eaten after it has begun to spoil. Either outcome can have dire consequences (Giwojna, 2005).



The best way to avoid such problems is to target feed your seahorses or set up a feeding station for them. See my online article in Conscientious Aquarist for a detailed discussion explaining exactly how to set up a feeding station and train your seahorses to use it:



Click here: Seahorse Feeders

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i5/seahorse_feeders/seahorse_feeders.htm



Personally, I prefer to target feed my seahorses instead. The individual personalities of seahorses naturally extend to their feeding habits. Some are aggressive feeders that will boldly snatch food from your fingers, while some are shy and secretive, feeding only when they think they're not being observed. Some like to slurp up Mysis while it's swirling through the water column, and some will only take Mysis off the bottom of the tank. Some are voracious pigs that greedily scarf up everything in sight, and some are slow, deliberate feeders that painstakingly examine every morsel of Mysis before they accept or reject it. Some eat like horses and some eat like birds. So how does the seahorse keeper make sure all his charges are getting enough to eat at mealtime? How does the hobbyist keep the aggressive eaters from gobbling up all the mouth-watering Mysis before the slower feeders get their fair share? And how can you keep active fishes and inverts with seahorses without the faster fishes gobbling up all the goodies before the slowpoke seahorses can grab a mouthful (Giwojna, unpublished)?



Target feeding is the answer. Target feeding just means offering a single piece of Mysis to one particular seahorse, and then watching to see whether or not the 'horse you targeted actually eats the shrimp. Feeding each of your seahorses in turn that way makes it easy to keep track of exactly how much each of your specimens is eating (Giwojna, unpublished).



There are many different ways to target feed seahorses. Most methods involve using a long utensil of some sort to wave the Mysis temptingly in front of the chosen seahorse; once you're sure this has attracted his interest, the Mysis is released so it drifts down enticingly right before the seahorse's snout. Most of the time, the seahorse will snatch it up as it drifts by or snap it up as soon as it hits the bottom (Giwojna, unpublished).



A great number of utensils work well for target feeding. I've seen hobbyists use everything from chopsticks to extra long tweezers and hemostats or forceps to homemade pipettes fashioned from a length of rigid plastic tubing. As for myself, I prefer handfeeding when I target feed a particular seahorse (Giwojna, unpublished).



But no doubt the all-time favorite implement for target feeding seahorses is the old-fashioned turkey baster. The old-fashioned ones with the glass barrels work best because the seahorses can see the Mysis inside the baster all the way as it moves down the barrel and out the tip. By exerting just the right amount of pressure on the bulb, great precision is possible when target feeding with a turkey baster. By squeezing and releasing the bulb ever so slightly, a skillful target feeder can keep a piece of Mysis dancing at the very tip of the baster indefinitely, and hold the tempting morsel right in front of the seahorse's mouth as long as necessary. Or if the seahorse rejects the Mysis the first time it drifts by, a baster makes it easy to deftly suck up the shrimp from the bottom so it can be offered to the target again. In the same way, the baster makes it a simple matter to clean any remaining leftovers after a feeding session (Giwojna, unpublished). (You'll quickly discover the feeding tube is also indispensable for tapping away pesky fish and invertebrates that threaten to steal the tempting tidbit before an indecisive seahorse can snatch it up.)



In short, target feeding allows the hobbyist to assure that each of his seahorses gets enough to eat without overfeeding or underfeeding the tank. And it makes it possible to keep seahorses in a community tank with more active fishes that would ordinarily out-compete them for food, since the aquarist can personally deliver each mouthful to the seahorses while keeping more aggressive specimens at bay (Giwojna, unpublished).



The key to keeping active specimens like firefish or cleaner shrimp successfully with seahorses is to feed the other fish and inverts with standard, off-the-shelf aquarium foods first, and once they've had their fill, then target feed the seahorses (Giwojna, unpublished).

Best wishes with all your fishes, Dirk! I am at your disposal if you have any more questions regarding the care and keeping of seahorses or how to set up an aquarium to create an ideal environment for Mustangs or Sunbursts.

Happy Trails!
 
There is some good info in the article but some from experience that I do not agree with. I have kept zoas. in my seahorse tank for ten years with no problems. I am careful not to propagate or tear up colonies while in the tanks with horses. Cleaner shrimp, my seahorses hate cleaner shrimp. In my experience enriching mysis leads to massive cyno and hair algea outbreaks. I encourage you to gather info from as many sources as possible. Paul
 
Other low light corals that should be suitable for a seahorse reef include genera such as Cynarina, Scolymia and Trachyphyllia, as well as non-photosynthetic gorgonians such as Subergorgia and Didogorgia, and perhaps wire corals such as Cirripathes spp. (Delbeek, Nov. 2001).. However, supplemental feedings of zooplankton may be required to maintain these corals in good health.



The large polyped stony (LPS) corals, however, are generally best avoided altogether. These include genera such as Catalaphyllia, Cynarina, Euphyllia and Trachyphyllia that have large fleshy polyps which often have tentacles equipped with powerful stinging cells. The Euphyllia and Catalaphyllia have the most powerful nematocysts among the LPS corals, and can deliver stings that are stronger than most anemones (Delbeek, Oct. 2001).


According to the above post by woolyt2 it would seem that Charles Delbeek changed his mind on the matter of cynarina, trachyphyllia, euphyllia, etc. in a month's time.
 
i do think that you should get as much info as you can .i only posted this because i had it ,i asked O.R. because i have bought from them before ,i ask as all that i can to get as much info as i can ..but this is a good starting point i think
 
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That is what is a great thing about this forum, you get many different opinions "some educated, some not".

The one thing that we all have to do is use some "good judgement and common sense" in attempting to decipher all of the data and opinions, and then use that information to make our decisions.

If there is one thing that everyone in this hobby should have learned is that there are very few hard "rules" that do not have exceptions, the real challenge is trying to understand what makes those exceptions work, but learn from the mistakes of others. Those that only share with us there victories are only telling part of the story.

I thank those who share there mistakes and what they have learned from them and often find that more valuable than just what has worked.

That is one thing I can say about "pledosophy" he shares the good and the bad from his experiences!!
:beer:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13853798#post13853798 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ducklabdad
That is one thing I can say about "pledosophy" he shares the good and the bad from his experiences!!
:beer:

:lol: If I didn't share the bad I'd be making my 10th post, somehow I got to 4000 :lol:

Some of us take the hard road.
 
Seahorses can be kept in a reef as I have done for years. They are not crazy about too mcuh circulation so I usually would partition off a side of the tank for them.
I actually invented and patented seahorse feeding stations about 20 years ago. I spoke to Pete G about them and even sent him a few. They appeared in his book. That feeder was for brine shrimp that we don't use much anymore for seahorses.
I sold over 6,000 of them and donated them to many public aquariums.
http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/v4_i3_paul_b/paul_b.htm

I collected these guys, they are transfering eggs in my reef.
scan0003-1.jpg
 
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