Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter BeanAnimal
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Donw Im sure BeanAnimal will be along to comment upon the whole but just in case he or others say the same thing..... it looks as if your emergency standpipe outlet is higher than the tank itself . I assume that is an optical illusion or at least I'm not seeing the right things !
JCTewks
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Don, It looks like it will work just fine (once you cut the pipes down to below the water level)...although I would ditch the barb fittings and use actual 1.5" elbows for maximum flow. The only thing I don't see is one of the pipes drilled for an airline. Do you have a ball/gate valve on one of the pipes to be used as the siphon?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Don,
My only concerns would be as stated before.
The volume of water moving into the box may force bubbles into the box that will be sucked in by the siphon (creating noise or instability).
I assume the center pipe will be the emergency pipe? So you will need to set the elbowed pipes sligtly lower and one will have to have the air inlet. The full siphon pipe COULD be straight with no elbow and the open channel standpipe intake slightly higher than that WITH an elbow (and air vent). Even a TEE with an open top! If the box rises to THAT level it will flood the TEE and flush. The emergency drain still slightly higher than that and also without the elbow.
In other words you COULD get away with NO elbows. The only drawback would be hearing the falling water in the open channel (as opposed to the air being drawn through a small hole and airline placed in the cap of it.
Hope that makes sense... pleaes do ask if it doesn't!
2)
My only concerns would be as stated before.
The volume of water moving into the box may force bubbles into the box that will be sucked in by the siphon (creating noise or instability).
I assume the center pipe will be the emergency pipe? So you will need to set the elbowed pipes sligtly lower and one will have to have the air inlet. The full siphon pipe COULD be straight with no elbow and the open channel standpipe intake slightly higher than that WITH an elbow (and air vent). Even a TEE with an open top! If the box rises to THAT level it will flood the TEE and flush. The emergency drain still slightly higher than that and also without the elbow.
In other words you COULD get away with NO elbows. The only drawback would be hearing the falling water in the open channel (as opposed to the air being drawn through a small hole and airline placed in the cap of it.
Hope that makes sense... pleaes do ask if it doesn't!
2)
I hadnt noticed that they hadnt been fitted !I am well underway in my tank project and intend to assemble my pipes this week. I have already purchased all the parts but am wondering about getting the water from the overflow through BeanAnimals pipe design down to the sump.
Can hose attachments be used below the ball valve and then have the water run down the hose down to the sump? I had my old tank setup in a similar way and it worked well. Any disadvantages by using that on a system like this ?
Can hose attachments be used below the ball valve and then have the water run down the hose down to the sump? I had my old tank setup in a similar way and it worked well. Any disadvantages by using that on a system like this ?
Bean, I've been following this thread since the beginning - so much info - so little time.
I ran across a type of drain pipe in Nanook's build thread. What interests me is the entry into the sump (pic below). I don't remember seeing this type of drain discussed here in this thread and was wondering whether you consider it compatible with your design? Nanook was kind enough to let me use his pic:
Note the air (bubble) release holes at the top. Redundant?
I ran across a type of drain pipe in Nanook's build thread. What interests me is the entry into the sump (pic below). I don't remember seeing this type of drain discussed here in this thread and was wondering whether you consider it compatible with your design? Nanook was kind enough to let me use his pic:
Note the air (bubble) release holes at the top. Redundant?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Thanks beerguy...
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
The only disadvantage will be the restriction caused by the hose barbs (the things that convert hard PVC into a soft pvc connection).
The restriction will limit the siphon capacity (not likely a problem) but will also limit the open channel capacity by diminishing the amount of flow that will silently travel through the pipe. The limitation will be due to the lack of air space in the pipe.
You can use SPAFLEX type pipe and standard PVC fittings to get around the hose barb drawbacks.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13278770#post13278770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GlassReef
Bean, I've been following this thread since the beginning - so much info - so little time.
Note the air (bubble) release holes at the top. Redundant?
That type of drain (I assume that the standpipes are to the left and above what is pictured) is another way of trying to silence standpipes and reduce air injection. It is not compatible with the setup I have proposed, other than on the OPEN CHANNEL standpipe. However, it may make the system hard to keep in balance (as will any standpipe that allows water to back up in it).
Bean,
Okay I have gone over the plans and don't see much on the elbows inside the over flow. You said that you had to trim about 1/4 inch from them to fit in the box and touch the bottom. It also says you cut slots using a table saw but...
1- How tall are slots? ( How far should you stay away from the bend in the elbow on the inside? )
2- How many slots? ( Is it better to use a regular saw blade ie. 1/8 in. making less or a thin kerf ie. 1/16 in. making more. I don't want to make to much restriction here right? )
3- I looked at your photo of your tank and you have an air inlet on the 3rd pipe ( the emergency pipe right? ) why?
4- It also says that the drains run into the sump and terminate just below the water line. How far? I don't want to go to far under because of back pressure right? I would also assume that they will all go into the inlet or same baffled area of the sump.
5- I am not running nearly the flow you are, my pump is only rated at 990 gph and after the head pressure calcs. with a 1.5" return i should have about 870-890 gph. Will the system work properly with that low of flow?
6- I read the dimensions of your calflo but i don't remember where. Can I make it just about any size I want ?
7- What is the best way to glue those pieces of glass in there. Should i just use silicone? Maybe cut the glass short buy 1/8 in. ( 1/16 in. spacing on each side ) so i have a continuous bead of silicone inside and out.
I told you i was a green horn.
Okay I have gone over the plans and don't see much on the elbows inside the over flow. You said that you had to trim about 1/4 inch from them to fit in the box and touch the bottom. It also says you cut slots using a table saw but...
1- How tall are slots? ( How far should you stay away from the bend in the elbow on the inside? )
2- How many slots? ( Is it better to use a regular saw blade ie. 1/8 in. making less or a thin kerf ie. 1/16 in. making more. I don't want to make to much restriction here right? )
3- I looked at your photo of your tank and you have an air inlet on the 3rd pipe ( the emergency pipe right? ) why?
4- It also says that the drains run into the sump and terminate just below the water line. How far? I don't want to go to far under because of back pressure right? I would also assume that they will all go into the inlet or same baffled area of the sump.
5- I am not running nearly the flow you are, my pump is only rated at 990 gph and after the head pressure calcs. with a 1.5" return i should have about 870-890 gph. Will the system work properly with that low of flow?
6- I read the dimensions of your calflo but i don't remember where. Can I make it just about any size I want ?
7- What is the best way to glue those pieces of glass in there. Should i just use silicone? Maybe cut the glass short buy 1/8 in. ( 1/16 in. spacing on each side ) so i have a continuous bead of silicone inside and out.
I told you i was a green horn.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
1) the current elbows have NO slots on the down facing pieces. The upturned elbow has a strainer on it. I had a goby that liked to go over the falls and was afraid he would die stuck against the elbow. Letting him take the ride to teh sump was much easier.
In either case, the gap under the elbow, or slots cut into the elbow should = AT LEAST the circular area of the elbow. I will leave the math to you
2) See answer #1... but PLEASE NOTE: Cutting slots like this in the TS or miter saw can be VERY VERY dangerous. Your eyes and fingers (teeth, whatever) are certainly going to be in harms way if you do not use the proper jig and protective equipment. If you attempt to hand hold the cuts, you will regret it! Loss of fingers is not hard to imagine. You have been warned!
3) Those photos are likely of the OLD durso style setup that was replaced by the current setup. All 3 standpipes had airlines at one point.
4) They should be just under the water level. (no more than an 1" I would guess) You can drill a hole (1/4" or so) in the side of the siphon standpipe to help it purge air. The hole would be just above the waterline.
5) Yes
6) Yes, but wider is better (coast-to-coast). To thin (front to back) and it will be hard to clean and setup (no room for elbows). Too deep and you lose tank space for no reason.
7) Silicone. Yes cut the glass a little short so you can move the shelf into place. Dry fit it and then remove it so that you can lay a bead of silicone to slide it back into. An alternative is to use a piece of hose on your silicone caulk to give you a directional nozzle. Silicone on both sides of the joint would be ideal. You don't want the overflow to leak tank water, otherwise during a power outage it will drain down to the level of the leak!
In either case, the gap under the elbow, or slots cut into the elbow should = AT LEAST the circular area of the elbow. I will leave the math to you
2) See answer #1... but PLEASE NOTE: Cutting slots like this in the TS or miter saw can be VERY VERY dangerous. Your eyes and fingers (teeth, whatever) are certainly going to be in harms way if you do not use the proper jig and protective equipment. If you attempt to hand hold the cuts, you will regret it! Loss of fingers is not hard to imagine. You have been warned!
3) Those photos are likely of the OLD durso style setup that was replaced by the current setup. All 3 standpipes had airlines at one point.
4) They should be just under the water level. (no more than an 1" I would guess) You can drill a hole (1/4" or so) in the side of the siphon standpipe to help it purge air. The hole would be just above the waterline.
5) Yes
6) Yes, but wider is better (coast-to-coast). To thin (front to back) and it will be hard to clean and setup (no room for elbows). Too deep and you lose tank space for no reason.
7) Silicone. Yes cut the glass a little short so you can move the shelf into place. Dry fit it and then remove it so that you can lay a bead of silicone to slide it back into. An alternative is to use a piece of hose on your silicone caulk to give you a directional nozzle. Silicone on both sides of the joint would be ideal. You don't want the overflow to leak tank water, otherwise during a power outage it will drain down to the level of the leak!
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
There may be some photos on my website.. but it looks almost exactly like the 3d renderings (minus the slots on the down turned elbows).
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