Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[StrangeDejavu]

Hello

I have designed my Bean Animal and I just wanted to get some clarification if this will work correctly and the measurements are okay.

If every other measurement looks correct I will just need the depth (front to back) and height (top to bottom) that you would recommend the weir box.

I will drill 34mm holes for 1 inch bulk head. Will that fit correctly? and the inlet will also be 1" if that is all good please let me know?

Thanks

Have you figured the width of the box yet? I'm back to considering internal again for my 40 breeder. If I could use a tape measure and get a visual of the LWH of the box, I think it'd make the decision easy for me.

Also, general question: If I use 1 inch PVC for my 40b, do I also use 1 inch bulkheads?

 

[TonyFerren]

Yes....tell me more...
:reading:

 

[sleepydoc]

Here's the reply I posted to smellsfishy90 in another thread he started with the same question:

What kind of tank and what size is it? The horizontal spacing of the holes is fine, although if you can space them out a bit more it would be preferable (1.5 diameters between holes gives a bit more of a safety buffer.) If you can't I wouldn't worry about it. Also, make sure the spacing lines up with your stand and sump so you don't have to add extra plumbing to avoid obstacles and get it where you want it.

For a rimmed tank, the top edge of the overflow should usually be placed at the bottom edge of the frame. That will put your water level out of sight just above the frame.

As far as the vertical height of the holes and the depth of the overflow box goes, that depends on what fittings you plan on using.

Take a look at this thread I posted a while back. It goes through the design process for my overflow box and will probably answer some of your questions.

Also, I would consider doing a coast to coast and running the return over the top. It ends up being easier to make and install, and it's easier to position the return outlet relative to the water surface so you don't get excessive back siphon when the water shuts off.

re: bulkheads, yes, I'd use 1" bulkheads. You could go down to ¾" bulkheads with 1" pipes just to make the holes a bit smaller, but it probably won't help you at all.

If you're trying to visualize, have you tried making a model on Sketchup? It's great for laying out things like this.

 

[dillct]

Purchased a bean animal style overflow box off ebay. It didn't come with any pipework so I've done the best possible with what I was able to find here. As I understand it, I only need a valve (preferably gate valve) on the main siphon? I'm a bit concerned that the outer box sits so low (1.5" lower than inner box), but it was necessary to get around the plastic trim on my tank. Does everything look right here?

 

[sleepydoc]

Yes. The only valve you need is on the full siphon channel, and a gate valve is preferred to make fine tuning the system easier.

It's preferable to have the external box the same heght as the internal box, but if you can't beause of the trim I wouldn't worry too much. Make sure the top of the dry emergency is low enough that the box doesn't overflow when it kicks in.

For an external box with the holes on the bottom you don't need the elbows on the siphon channel. You may need to adjust the height of the open channel plumbing; ultimately, that's what will set the operating depth.

 

[Swope2bc]

For an external box with the holes on the bottom you don't need the elbows on the siphon channel. You may need to adjust the height of the open channel plumbing; ultimately, that's what will set the operating depth.

Do you mean that one could just leave the bulkhead only for the full siphon line?

 

[sleepydoc]

Yup

 

[Swope2bc]

Yup

Wow, sweet!!! So basically just tune it to ensure no air gets sucked down in a siphon vortex. The open channel still gets the upside down U with airline tube set just above the dry channel?

 

[sleepydoc]

Yes - Bean used the elbow in his original design because he had an internal coast to coast overflow with bulkheads on the side. For your purposes, the main issue would be the vortices entraining air from the surface. If your box is too shallow to avoid the vortex, you can put the elbows back on. It ultimately depends on the box, the operating depth of water in the box and how much flow you're running

The open channel is as you described.

 

[natas]

I am currently working on my new build and need some suggestions for my bean animal overflow. I also have a few questions about it.

The overflow is an external overflow that measures 18 x 4 x 8. Water will flow to the external overflow via built in weirs. My goal is to be running around 1200-1800GPH. My sump has 3 inlets. 2 x 1.5" and 1x1".

Question 1) Would it be ok to have my bean animal use the following: 1" full siphon, 1.5" open channel and 1.5" emergency?

Question 2) Will a 1" be able to handle 2000GPH or less?m What is the max for the 1" siphon?

Question 3) When I build this system what parts should I actually glue together? Do I glue the Bean animal to my bulk heads, or would a tight slip fitting with some teflon tape be ok? I assume I glue everything else

Question 4) How do I determine how high or low the tee's go in the overflow? I want this to be as silent as possible. So when water drops into the overflow I would like that drop to be silent as possible....but also a safe distance.

 

[sleepydoc]

I am currently working on my new build and need some suggestions for my bean animal overflow. I also have a few questions about it.

The overflow is an external overflow that measures 18 x 4 x 8. Water will flow to the external overflow via built in weirs. My goal is to be running around 1200-1800GPH. My sump has 3 inlets. 2 x 1.5" and 1x1".

Question 1) Would it be ok to have my bean animal use the following: 1" full siphon, 1.5" open channel and 1.5" emergency?

Question 2) Will a 1" be able to handle 2000GPH or less?m What is the max for the 1" siphon?

Question 3) When I build this system what parts should I actually glue together? Do I glue the Bean animal to my bulk heads, or would a tight slip fitting with some teflon tape be ok? I assume I glue everything else

Question 4) How do I determine how high or low the tee's go in the overflow? I want this to be as silent as possible. So when water drops into the overflow I would like that drop to be silent as possible....but also a safe distance.

1. Probably. Depending on the head height and plumbing you may be pushing the limits of a 1" siphon. Is enlarging the hole in the sump an option? You can also use 1.25" plumbing for everything except the final connection to the sump.
   
2. See my answer to #1. It depends on the head height and the plumbing. Beananimal has a calculator on his web site. A 1" siphon at a 36" drop has a theoretical flow rate of 2041 gph, so you're pushing things pretty close.
   
3. If it would cause a problem when it comes apart it should be glued. Anything external should definitely be glued. If there are parts you need to be able to disassemble, use unions. Some people don't glue the internal fittings for the siphon line. This usually works, but sometimes you can get small amounts of air that gets sucked in round the non-glued fitting. The other internal fittings can generally be left unglued without an issue.
   
4. Hard to answer without seeing your overflow. Can you post a pic/diagram?

 

[natas]

1. Probably. Depending on the head height and plumbing you may be pushing the limits of a 1" siphon. Is enlarging the hole in the sump an option? You can also use 1.25" plumbing for everything except the final connection to the sump.
   
2. See my answer to #1. It depends on the head height and the plumbing. Beananimal has a calculator on his web site. A 1" siphon at a 36" drop has a theoretical flow rate of 2041 gph, so you're pushing things pretty close.
   
3. If it would cause a problem when it comes apart it should be glued. Anything external should definitely be glued. If there are parts you need to be able to disassemble, use unions. Some people don't glue the internal fittings for the siphon line. This usually works, but sometimes you can get small amounts of air that gets sucked in round the non-glued fitting. The other internal fittings can generally be left unglued without an issue.
   
4. Hard to answer without seeing your overflow. Can you post a pic/diagram?

First of all thank you so much for helping me out here sleepydoc.

1) Unfortunately enlarging the hole is not an option on the sump. So what would be my best alternative here? 1.25" bulkhead with 1.25" pipe and convert down to 1" right at the sump? Does this give me more flow than a 1" run or does converting it from 1.25" to 1" give me nothing?

2) Very cool.

3) That helps. Thanks!

4) Unfortunately I have no diagram yet of the overflow. The tank is being build now by planet aquarium.

 

[ElecEngineer]

Do the elbows on the siphon in the tank need to be pointed downward? My tank is drilled about a foot below the surface and in order to create less water in the sump that is siphoned out due to the pump shutting off, I would like to point them upwards. Is this ok??

Please help and thanks!

 

[rickztahone]

I am currently working on my new build and need some suggestions for my bean animal overflow. I also have a few questions about it.

The overflow is an external overflow that measures 18 x 4 x 8. Water will flow to the external overflow via built in weirs. My goal is to be running around 1200-1800GPH. My sump has 3 inlets. 2 x 1.5" and 1x1".

Question 1) Would it be ok to have my bean animal use the following: 1" full siphon, 1.5" open channel and 1.5" emergency?

Question 2) Will a 1" be able to handle 2000GPH or less?m What is the max for the 1" siphon?

Question 3) When I build this system what parts should I actually glue together? Do I glue the Bean animal to my bulk heads, or would a tight slip fitting with some teflon tape be ok? I assume I glue everything else

Question 4) How do I determine how high or low the tee's go in the overflow? I want this to be as silent as possible. So when water drops into the overflow I would like that drop to be silent as possible....but also a safe distance.

1)yes, this is fine
2)yes. I can't remember exactly the numbers for the 1" siphon but it is around 1,500-2000 if I remember correctly.
3)Cement everything together except the parts inside the overflow box. Those can be pressure fit.
4)The best method, from my research is to have the middle part of the downturned elbow(s) be the same height as the pass through holes. This way, both levels, in the inner and outer overflow box are almost the same height. This cuts back on noise.

 

[sleepydoc]

Do the elbows on the siphon in the tank need to be pointed downward? My tank is drilled about a foot below the surface and in order to create less water in the sump that is siphoned out due to the pump shutting off, I would like to point them upwards. Is this ok??

Please help and thanks!

If they are that far below the surface then yes. Bean's original design had the down turned ells because he had a relatively shallow coast to coast overflow with bulkheads in the side of the tank.

you do have an overflow, right? The overflow should limit the amount of back siphoning to the volume of the overflow box. I would post a pic/diagram of your setup so people can look at it. It's hard to tell for sure from your short description.

 

[ElecEngineer]

If they are that far below the surface then yes. Bean's original design had the down turned ells because he had a relatively shallow coast to coast overflow with bulkheads in the side of the tank.

you do have an overflow, right? The overflow should limit the amount of back siphoning to the volume of the overflow box. I would post a pic/diagram of your setup so people can look at it. It's hard to tell for sure from your short description.

Yep, I have a coast-to-coast overflow. Below is a picture:

The overflow is large so theres still about 30-40 gallons of water in it. I have a 125g sump, though, so it should be fine.

 

[ElecEngineer]

Fixed above post.

 

[Swope2bc]

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

Yep, I have a coast-to-coast overflow. Below is a picture:

The overflow is large so theres still about 30-40 gallons of water in it. I have a 125g sump, though, so it should be fine.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but by the looks of it with elbows turned down on the full siphon and the open channel and the dry channel turned up a power out test should only drain water from the top of the elbow to the bottom of it. This will leave most of that water sitting in the bottom of your overflow. The only benefit of turning them up would be less drop of the water over the weir.

 

[sleepydoc]

Wow - that's quite the overflow box! What are the actual dimensions of it?

You can point the siphon elbow upwards. The problem with doing that is that it can entrain air if it creates a vortex at the surface of the water in the overflow. Whether this is an issue depends on the depth of the intake and the flow. You can also point it sideways which would cause fewer issues. It looks like the previous owner had the water level lower, around the level of the bulkheads. This would also reduce the amount of back siphoning, but may create more noise with the large water drop from he weir.

The other potential issue I see is the water flow between the chambers of the overflow. If you set it up as a Beananimal, the majority of the flow will be from the chamber with the siphon channel. water will flow under the partitions, but the water level in the siphon chamber will be lower than the other 2. The good news is that the water flowing down one partition and under the partition will keep water from stagnating.

I would have the siphon channel in the center section, though - that would optimize the water flow under each individual partition. Otherwise you would have 2/3 of the flow going under one of them.

 

[ElecEngineer]

Wow - that's quite the overflow box! What are the actual dimensions of it?

You can point the siphon elbow upwards. The problem with doing that is that it can entrain air if it creates a vortex at the surface of the water in the overflow. Whether this is an issue depends on the depth of the intake and the flow. You can also point it sideways which would cause fewer issues. It looks like the previous owner had the water level lower, around the level of the bulkheads. This would also reduce the amount of back siphoning, but may create more noise with the large water drop from he weir.

The other potential issue I see is the water flow between the chambers of the overflow. If you set it up as a Beananimal, the majority of the flow will be from the chamber with the siphon channel. water will flow under the partitions, but the water level in the siphon chamber will be lower than the other 2. The good news is that the water flowing down one partition and under the partition will keep water from stagnating.

I would have the siphon channel in the center section, though - that would optimize the water flow under each individual partition. Otherwise you would have 2/3 of the flow going under one of them.

Yea, I'm not sure of the thought process of the drilling of the holes. I bought the tank used and got a good deal. The overflow box is 72"x30"x5"...I think I'll just go BeanAnimal with the siphon in the middle as you suggested.