Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[ElecEngineer]

If they are that far below the surface then yes. Bean's original design had the down turned ells because he had a relatively shallow coast to coast overflow with bulkheads in the side of the tank.

you do have an overflow, right? The overflow should limit the amount of back siphoning to the volume of the overflow box. I would post a pic/diagram of your setup so people can look at it. It's hard to tell for sure from your short description.

Yep, I have a coast-to-coast overflow. Below is a picture:

The overflow is large so theres still about 30-40 gallons of water in it. I have a 125g sump, though, so it should be fine.

 

[ElecEngineer]

Fixed above post.

 

[Swope2bc]

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

Yep, I have a coast-to-coast overflow. Below is a picture:

The overflow is large so theres still about 30-40 gallons of water in it. I have a 125g sump, though, so it should be fine.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but by the looks of it with elbows turned down on the full siphon and the open channel and the dry channel turned up a power out test should only drain water from the top of the elbow to the bottom of it. This will leave most of that water sitting in the bottom of your overflow. The only benefit of turning them up would be less drop of the water over the weir.

 

[sleepydoc]

Wow - that's quite the overflow box! What are the actual dimensions of it?

You can point the siphon elbow upwards. The problem with doing that is that it can entrain air if it creates a vortex at the surface of the water in the overflow. Whether this is an issue depends on the depth of the intake and the flow. You can also point it sideways which would cause fewer issues. It looks like the previous owner had the water level lower, around the level of the bulkheads. This would also reduce the amount of back siphoning, but may create more noise with the large water drop from he weir.

The other potential issue I see is the water flow between the chambers of the overflow. If you set it up as a Beananimal, the majority of the flow will be from the chamber with the siphon channel. water will flow under the partitions, but the water level in the siphon chamber will be lower than the other 2. The good news is that the water flowing down one partition and under the partition will keep water from stagnating.

I would have the siphon channel in the center section, though - that would optimize the water flow under each individual partition. Otherwise you would have 2/3 of the flow going under one of them.

 

[ElecEngineer]

Wow - that's quite the overflow box! What are the actual dimensions of it?

You can point the siphon elbow upwards. The problem with doing that is that it can entrain air if it creates a vortex at the surface of the water in the overflow. Whether this is an issue depends on the depth of the intake and the flow. You can also point it sideways which would cause fewer issues. It looks like the previous owner had the water level lower, around the level of the bulkheads. This would also reduce the amount of back siphoning, but may create more noise with the large water drop from he weir.

The other potential issue I see is the water flow between the chambers of the overflow. If you set it up as a Beananimal, the majority of the flow will be from the chamber with the siphon channel. water will flow under the partitions, but the water level in the siphon chamber will be lower than the other 2. The good news is that the water flowing down one partition and under the partition will keep water from stagnating.

I would have the siphon channel in the center section, though - that would optimize the water flow under each individual partition. Otherwise you would have 2/3 of the flow going under one of them.

Yea, I'm not sure of the thought process of the drilling of the holes. I bought the tank used and got a good deal. The overflow box is 72"x30"x5"...I think I'll just go BeanAnimal with the siphon in the middle as you suggested.

 

[uncleof6]

Yea, I'm not sure of the thought process of the drilling of the holes. I bought the tank used and got a good deal. The overflow box is 72"x30"x5"...I think I'll just go BeanAnimal with the siphon in the middle as you suggested.

Due to the restricted flow from one section to the next, the overflow box will NOT function as a single body of water, and therefore the BA drain system will not function properly. Due to the intimate interaction between the siphon, and the open channel, the entire overflow box must be a single body of water. E.G. the overflow box must function as if the baffles (supports) were not present, i.e. no friction losses. Channels, and moving under a baffle, also present friction loss, not just pipes. Since there are "baffles," the overflow cannot function as a single body of water, rather three connected or "related" bodies of water, just as a three section sump.

To echo what has already been hinted at, you won't be able to run the elbows turned up, for the reasons stated; the waterfall into the overflow will be quite high, as the water level in the overflow needs to be right around the tops of the down-turned elbows, or a bit less, so silence is pretty much out of the question, unless a very low flow rate is used. Sorta defeats the whole purpose of high performance drain systems.

Of course one could chop out the baffles, making the overflow one body of water, but seeing it is acrylic, it will be quite a mess. The next step would be to plug the existing holes, and raise them up to a more reasonable height. But, there will be the presence of a large reservoir of dead water in the over-sized box.

I am not sure of the thought process that lead to the construction of such an overflow, nor the placement of the holes. Appears that someone was thinking of an "All-in-one" methodology, which did not work out so good. The person responsible did not do you any favors, and the tank was not such a good deal as it is currently configured. I am a proponent of "learn first, before you buy," unfortunately, it rarely works that way. The advice, albeit late, would have been pass, unless the seller pays you to haul it away...

 

[ElecEngineer]

Due to the restricted flow from one section to the next, the overflow box will NOT function as a single body of water, and therefore the BA drain system will not function properly. Due to the intimate interaction between the siphon, and the open channel, the entire overflow box must be a single body of water. E.G. the overflow box must function as if the baffles (supports) were not present, i.e. no friction losses. Channels, and moving under a baffle, also present friction loss, not just pipes. Since there are "baffles," the overflow cannot function as a single body of water, rather three connected or "related" bodies of water, just as a three section sump.

To echo what has already been hinted at, you won't be able to run the elbows turned up, for the reasons stated; the waterfall into the overflow will be quite high, as the water level in the overflow needs to be right around the tops of the down-turned elbows, or a bit less, so silence is pretty much out of the question, unless a very low flow rate is used. Sorta defeats the whole purpose of high performance drain systems.

Of course one could chop out the baffles, making the overflow one body of water, but seeing it is acrylic, it will be quite a mess. The next step would be to plug the existing holes, and raise them up to a more reasonable height. But, there will be the presence of a large reservoir of dead water in the over-sized box.

I am not sure of the thought process that lead to the construction of such an overflow, nor the placement of the holes. Appears that someone was thinking of an "All-in-one" methodology, which did not work out so good. The person responsible did not do you any favors, and the tank was not such a good deal as it is currently configured. I am a proponent of "learn first, before you buy," unfortunately, it rarely works that way. The advice, albeit late, would have been pass, unless the seller pays you to haul it away...

They basically did pay me to take it away, but I hear what you're saying...is there any drain system/configuration you can think of? Dead silence isn't necessary and I don't mind a little bit of noise.

 

[metamorphis]

Is anyone pushing >8K GPH through one of these? I've done the math, but am not entirely sure about how much noise to expect when pushing that much water into an overflow box.

 

[sleepydoc]

Due to the restricted flow from one section to the next, the overflow box will NOT function as a single body of water, and therefore the BA drain system will not function properly. Due to the intimate interaction between the siphon, and the open channel, the entire overflow box must be a single body of water. E.G. the overflow box must function as if the baffles (supports) were not present, i.e. no friction losses.

He could potentially get around this by cutting some holes in the baffles. If the channels between the partitions are large relative to the flow it should work. If they are enough to cause variations in the water level then there will likely be issues. It may be possible to get it working in this configuration, but the physics will be different, so you can't apply what others have done.

Of course one could chop out the baffles, making the overflow one body of water, but seeing it is acrylic, it will be quite a mess. The next step would be to plug the existing holes, and raise them up to a more reasonable height. But, there will be the presence of a large reservoir of dead water in the over-sized box.

What about filling it with sand and essentially making the bottom part a deep sand bed? I was trying to come up with other ideas of filling the dead space, but none of them are very good or easy. Seems like it would be a waste to drill new holes, but that may be the best option.

I am not sure of the thought process that lead to the construction of such an overflow, nor the placement of the holes. Appears that someone was thinking of an "All-in-one" methodology, which did not work out so good. The person responsible did not do you any favors,

Yeah, I was trying to figure out what the point of the original design was, too!

They basically did pay me to take it away, but I hear what you're saying...is there any drain system/configuration you can think of? Dead silence isn't necessary and I don't mind a little bit of noise.

What kind of flow are you looking for? I was just noticing the other holes at the bottom. you could do some sort of modified Herbie, or do a bean with the siphon at the bottom and the open channel & emergency at the top

 

[Swope2bc]

What about filling it with sand and essentially making the bottom part a deep sand bed? I was trying to come up with other ideas of filling the dead space, but none of them are very good or easy. Seems like it would be a waste to drill new holes, but that may be the best option.

Because the sand would be nearly impossible to remove in the future, and to eliminate the risk of an old sand bed issue, would it work for him to use expanding foam in the bottom to eliminate the excess water in the overflow. And, as suggested, drill holes in the baffles to allow water to flow through?

Might be a worthless idea, but a thought to consider.

 

[sleepydoc]

Is anyone pushing >8K GPH through one of these? I've done the math, but am not entirely sure about how much noise to expect when pushing that much water into an overflow box.

8,000 GPH??? how big of a tank are you setting up? I've never heard of anyone doing that much flow, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Just eyeballing some equations, you'd probably need at least 2" plumbing. The overflow would have to be not only big enough to handle the fittings, but deep enough so that it doesn't draw air. On top of that, you need pumps capable of pumping that much volume, which would likely drown out the noise from the overflow anyway...

 

[ElecEngineer]

He could potentially get around this by cutting some holes in the baffles. If the channels between the partitions are large relative to the flow it should work. If they are enough to cause variations in the water level then there will likely be issues. It may be possible to get it working in this configuration, but the physics will be different, so you can't apply what others have done.



What about filling it with sand and essentially making the bottom part a deep sand bed? I was trying to come up with other ideas of filling the dead space, but none of them are very good or easy. Seems like it would be a waste to drill new holes, but that may be the best option.



Yeah, I was trying to figure out what the point of the original design was, too!



What kind of flow are you looking for? I was just noticing the other holes at the bottom. you could do some sort of modified Herbie, or do a bean with the siphon at the bottom and the open channel & emergency at the top

I have a Fluval SP6, but I can dial it back with a gate valve. Would like around 1800 GPH.

That's a lot of flow, but due to the 72" width of the overflow, I thought maybe the increased "surface area" would make it a bit quieter with the large water drop over the weir. Either way, noise isn't a top priority. As long as the overflow functions.

 

[sleepydoc]

Because the sand would be nearly impossible to remove in the future, and to eliminate the risk of an old sand bed issue, would it work for him to use expanding foam in the bottom to eliminate the excess water in the overflow. And, as suggested, drill holes in the baffles to allow water to flow through?

Might be a worthless idea, but a thought to consider.

You'd have to have the sand in mesh socks or a custom built 'bucket' that fit in the space to allow for removal

 

[metamorphis]

8,000 GPH??? how big of a tank are you setting up? I've never heard of anyone doing that much flow, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Just eyeballing some equations, you'd probably need at least 2" plumbing. The overflow would have to be not only big enough to handle the fittings, but deep enough so that it doesn't draw air. On top of that, you need pumps capable of pumping that much volume, which would likely drown out the noise from the overflow anyway...

Tank will be approx 500g. The goal is to keep pumps and detritus out of the main display. The pumps will be located remotely in a garage fishroom.

 

[SaltwaterNoob17]

I currently have a Beananimal Overflow on my 100 gallon, and love it. I'm in the midsts of planning a new aquarium right now (~500 gallons), and I want to utilize a Beananimal for it as well. Below is the plan as of now (bear with me as the plan is quite rough still), and a few questions concerning the design...

General Info:
- Aquarium Dimensions: 10' x 3' x 28"H
- External Beananimal Overflow w/ three 1.5" drains running along the 10' back of the tank
- "Fish Room" with sump, filtration, etc. in separate room of the house

Questions:

1. The "Fish Room" (where the sump will be) is on the same floor of the house as the aquarium. The "Fish Room" is located about 10' behind the aquarium, and there are two walls in between the aquarium and the "Fish Room". Should I run the drain plumbing from the aquarium to the sump via running pvc under the house's concrete slab or via the drywall?

I am worried about the amount of back pressure if I choose to run the pvc in the slab. I have the same concern about running the pvc along the flooring through the drywall. Is this a valid concern?

What would you all recommend?

Thanks in advance!

 

[tazdvl]

Big Thanks

Big Thanks

I'm sure other's might have posted something along these lines, but I feel the need to say :lol2: THANKS TO BEAN :wavehand: and all the other Beannies that have kept this thread up. I had never plumbed a system in my whole life but after reading through this post and reading Bean's project pages on this system I have successfully setup a SILENT FAIL SAFE system on my 85 gallon tank. Used 1" all around combo of rigid and flex PVC and have a system that goes to silent full syphon in about 15 sec after overflow box fills! Didn't have any problems of excessive cycling to get stabilized turn pump on box fills siphon starts box goes to normal operating level time after time. Now if I get the weird PVC Tube coast to coast weir I setup working I'll post a vid of whole "shebang".

 

[ElecEngineer]

You'd have to have the sand in mesh socks or a custom built 'bucket' that fit in the space to allow for removal

So if I don't mind a little noise due to a large waterfall over the weir, what's the best way to plumb my tank without drilling holes in baffles or plugging them with sand?

 

[Kiel'thalin]

What if...
You have a stock dual overflow tank (each side uses 3/4" & 1" bulkheads). Then use one side for 2/3 of the drains and use the other side for the remaining drain and return? Would you have enough room to do this in the overflows? I am thinking 120g+ tanks that use dual overflows, i.e. Deep Sea Pro, Aqueon, etc. I want to be able to put the tank as close to the wall as possible and do not have the convenience of an adjacent fish room. Which drain would be the 3/4"? I am just not comfortable ordering a custom tank or diy on drilling my own.

 

[sleepydoc]

So if I don't mind a little noise due to a large waterfall over the weir, what's the best way to plumb my tank without drilling holes in baffles or plugging them with sand?

What I would do is try plumbing it as a 'standard' bean with the bulkheads where they are and a long drop for the overflow. Fill it with tap water and see how it runs. make sure you test the various methods of failure (clog in the main siphon, clog in the open channel, etc.) If you're happy with how it runs and the noise level then just go with it. If you're not happy, then you can look at modifying it.

Like uncle and I said above - the dividers may make it operate differently, but ultimately I can't say for sure if they will cause a problem or not.

 

[sleepydoc]

Tank will be approx 500g. The goal is to keep pumps and detritus out of the main display. The pumps will be located remotely in a garage fishroom.

8000 gph is still quite a bit. Remember, you have power heads taht add to the circulation in the display tank as well. Try taking a look at the past tanks of the month. THey are various sizes, but there are probably some larger ones in there that you can look at for ideas or talk direclty with the users and find out what they do.