Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[woodnaquanut]

I figured it out. I was dumb and had the bulkheads with the threads inside. Should I add height to these or is this fine now?

That looks much better.

As sleepyd mentioned you don't need the tees. You can make the U shape out of two elbows or even better two street ells. This will take up much less space.

The reason I mention this is I notice the intakes seem to be right in line with the two holes coming from the tank. That tank flow might have some bubbles in it and if so could cause some noise in the siphon line. Two street ells would set them a bit off center of that flow.

Also you'd have room for a cover!

Since all the plumbing will be below water line you don't need to glue it. Then it's easily removed to clean.

 

[mmn]

. But I was thinking of leaving it non glued together. Just pressed together pretty well.

The risk you run there is if it leaks any air you won't get a full siphon when it's needed, which is the whole purpose of that tubing. Drill, tap, and use a non-hardening thread sealant.

 

[woodnaquanut]

The risk you run there is if it leaks any air you won't get a full siphon when it's needed, which is the whole purpose of that tubing. Drill, tap, and use a non-hardening thread sealant.

I believe we are talking about different things. I'm speaking to the large PVC fittings connected to the bulkheads. They don't need to be glued together.

If you are going to tap a Guest or other fitting into the OC, you can seal it with either NHTS or teflon if you feel the need.

If you get air sucking into the fittings, revisit the possibility of gluing.

 

[pbauec]

SpikeDangles, can you post some pics of your set up? i am planning a very similar bean with c2c and would love to see how yours turned out and how well it functions

 

[tidus10]

Drilled and tapped and line placed? Where do I put this macroline?

Impossible to see

 

[tidus10]

About 1/4" below the emergency drain? Should I zip tie it there or just let it dangle?

 

[sleepydoc]

The 'standard' position is about ¼-½" ABOVE the emergency drain. Having it positioned like this lets the water rise to the level of the emergency drain and stay there during start up without 'tripping' the open channel drain over to a full siphon. If the open channel flips over to a full siphon and rapidly drains the overflow box. If this happens before the siphon channel has had a chance to purge the air and stabilize, it will just suck in air and never reach a steady state.

I would secure the line either with a zip tie or by some other means

 

[tidus10]

Heh I had no idea. Thanks man. I'll position it a little higher then.

 

[mmn]

Heh I had no idea. Thanks man. I'll position it a little higher then.

The open channel should only go to full siphon if the dry emergency is clogged. It is the last failsafe.

 

[Outdrsyguy1]

anyone have any links to flow rates of different sized pipe under full suction?

Hi all, was hoping for some advice. I'm setting up a 900 gallon system and would like to go the bean animal route. I'm trying to size the overflow box and figure out how many bulk heads are needed.

Tank is 10' x 56" x 33" and my overflow will be an external box (current design is 60" long overflow). I was going to use a reeflo hammerhead for the sump ~5,000 gph) and current plan is a closed loop with eductors for flow (another 5,000 gph into the sump). I"m still researching the eductors but when sized properly, it looks like I could get ~25,000 gph water movement out of them.

Anyways, anyone able to make suggestions on what size pipe under full suction can handle 10,000 gph? I assume even though the tanks a monster, i would still want to go with the 3 pipe bean animal design?
oh, sump will be about 3' underneath overflow
Thanks!

 

[tidus10]

The open channel should only go to full siphon if the dry emergency is clogged. It is the last failsafe.

and i was thinking it was

Full siphon fails somehow,
secondary goes full siphon and if that fails..
open channel turns into a straigh drain and rescues it all..


Thanks for all the help!

 

[sleepydoc]

anyone have any links to flow rates of different sized pipe under full suction?

I haven't seen much good data on this. This post has some calculated rates.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1814606

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

 

[805reef]

I am going to use a straight down pipe for my display tank but I have a smaller tank that will be under the stand next to the sump that will be used for chaeto and for new fish acclimation.

Do to the limited space under the stand and the sizes of the smaller tank and sump I may need to use a short horizontal run. Would this work? The horizontal part is about 20" long. Is that too much to be able to get the siphon going?

 

[sleepydoc]

20" isn't really that short - I don't have experience with setups like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it caused problems.

You could try it and see how it works. If there is absolutely no way to avoid the horizontal run and it does cause isssues, one option might be to add a means to vent the air - perhaps a tee with a john guest valve or something similar. You could also have an upside down P trap taht would collect the bubbles and use the drain plug on it to rig some sort of vent. You would have to vent it manually, so it wouldn't be automatically starting, but it might work.

Edit- potential problemm with the solution I suggested is that it could entrain air rather than vent it. If it's down far enough, I thing the pressure gradients would be such that it would vent air, bit I can't be positive.

 

[mmn]

Might help to make it less horizontal with 45 degree els if you have enough vertical space.

 

[805reef]

20" isn't really that short - I don't have experience with setups like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it caused problems.

You could try it and see how it works. If there is absolutely no way to avoid the horizontal run and it does cause isssues, one option might be to add a means to vent the air - perhaps a tee with a john guest valve or something similar. You could also have an upside down P trap taht would collect the bubbles and use the drain plug on it to rig some sort of vent. You would have to vent it manually, so it wouldn't be automatically starting, but it might work.

Edit- potential problemm with the solution I suggested is that it could entrain air rather than vent it. If it's down far enough, I thing the pressure gradients would be such that it would vent air, bit I can't be positive.

Thanks for the response. I'll try out some other things...

Might help to make it less horizontal with 45 degree els if you have enough vertical space.

I have some 45's on the right side, but I have the left tank up as high as it can go... I wish there were like 10 or 15 degree elbows...

How about this, does this change anything putting the tee more to the right? Or is it still all the same?

 

[mmn]

The tee is only there for a clean-out except on the open channel where it also provides a way to connect the airline for converting the open channel to a full siphon in an emergency. Since you have a union there you don't really need that tee. That might buy you enough room to go from the tank to the sump on a 45 degree angle.

On another note - I can't see the three pics in your OP, so I can't see what you're doing about the other two BA drains. I also don't see any valve on the one you are showing so that looks like it's just the dry emergency?

 

[805reef]

The tee is only there for a clean-out except on the open channel where it also provides a way to connect the airline for converting the open channel to a full siphon in an emergency. Since you have a union there you don't really need that tee. That might buy you enough room to go from the tank to the sump on a 45 degree angle.

On another note - I can't see the three pics in your OP, so I can't see what you're doing about the other two BA drains. I also don't see any valve on the one you are showing so that looks like it's just the dry emergency?

hmmm... not sure what happened to the first pics but here they are again.

all of the pics are just quick mock ups so that I could ask you guys what you thought. I will not be using a union on the final. All 3 drains will follow the same path and the full siphon will have a gate valve and the open channel will have the airline.

Maybe another dumb question... would having two 10" horizontal runs seperated by zigzag 45's be the same as having one 20" horizontal?

Ok, you guys got my brain going and I think I found a solution. Using 2 back to back 45's I can make it have a slight downward angle the whole run without any horizontals. Again the union is only there because I was too lazy to look for a coupler for this mock up. The final will not have a coupler or union there

 

[sleepydoc]

I'd try something like the last pics where you have it angled. I don't think 2 short horizontal runs would be appreciably better than 1 long run.

One idea/suggestion for creating a non-standard angle - you can bend PVC pipe by heating up with a heat gun, or in an oven. That would avoid the mishmash of 45º's