Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
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sleepydoc
Team RC
I have a piece of the 1/4" BRS netting that I used for my tank cover over the siphon channel. Mainly to prevent snails from getting up in there. The open channel I left open. I had a small clown fish go for a ride, but I just fished him out of the sump when I found him the next day. i figure the gate valve in the siphon channel will cause an issue with critters getting stuck, but the open channel is open the whole way, so what ever goes in can get out easily enough.
I actually lost a Blenny the same way 2 years ago so this is long overdue.pfoxgrover
New member
I was thinking of trying black light diffuser (egg crate). Has anyone tried that?
even 2x 1.5" would handle that just fine. 1" full siphon will handle 2000-2400GPH, so that flow rate might even work through 2x 1"....but that'd be cutting it close. I'd do 1.5 though. 1.5 already needs a 2.5" drillbit. 2" needs a nearly 3" hole. not worth the added risk unless you really need it, imho.
I would do 3x 1.5" bean animal setup if you have the option, but 2x1.5" might even be OK. 1x1.5 for the siphon and 1x2.0 for the emergency/backup would be better, more leeway if you were to forego the 3rd drain. If you add the third drain, then 3x1.5" would be sufficient
BTW for the non-metric folks this is 1850-2377GPH, give or take. no problem for a 1.5" drain with full siphon, and at the upper end of 1" capacity. 2" capacity is wayyy higher.
nanomania
New member
nanomania
New member
But how long surface skimmer should i build? Is 30cm fine??
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how big is the tank? what are the tank dimensions? I like to have it at least 1/3rd the length minimum. some people go coast-to-coast (full length), that's the best option if you can do it. I just opted for a tad over 1/3rd (18" in 48" tank....16" would be 1/3rd exactly, so i went a little over)
apologize for giving non-metric numbers, i wish we used it here too.
apologize for giving non-metric numbers, i wish we used it here too.
Gents.... wading through 364 pages of posts is painful...
A pointer please.... where is the "latest" version of the Beananimal design??? Or is the original still the standard.
My display tank is 210g, 120g refugium and extra water volume, 40 g sump. 370g total in the system. I know the 120g is overkill... but I had the tank, so I put it to good use.
My display will have BeanAnimal. 72" tank. 60" overflow box with 3x 60mm holes flowing into an external box. 20" long, 6" deep, 6" wide external box for the 1 1/2" beananimal.
I understand the basic principles.... 2 standpipes "turned down" elbows... one with a breather tube, one with out. 1 open standpipe.
I understand the open standpipe height is supposed to be set just above the height of the weir as an emergency.
I understand the two turned down ones are simply "lower".
I also understand that only the full siphon needs a gate valve and the others do not need a valve.... correct??
A few questions...
1) The intake of the breather tube.... where is that set at.... ?? It's not always open air, right? I'd think at some water level you want the water level to "seal" it to create a full siphon if the water level rises. But what level is right?
2) I notice several designs including the original with a capped T and elbow.... why's that?? Why not 2 elbows?? I get it for the one with the breather tube but why on the full siphon???
3) Is what I wrote above on what I think I understand correct???
Thanks
Mark
A pointer please.... where is the "latest" version of the Beananimal design??? Or is the original still the standard.
My display tank is 210g, 120g refugium and extra water volume, 40 g sump. 370g total in the system. I know the 120g is overkill... but I had the tank, so I put it to good use.
My display will have BeanAnimal. 72" tank. 60" overflow box with 3x 60mm holes flowing into an external box. 20" long, 6" deep, 6" wide external box for the 1 1/2" beananimal.
I understand the basic principles.... 2 standpipes "turned down" elbows... one with a breather tube, one with out. 1 open standpipe.
I understand the open standpipe height is supposed to be set just above the height of the weir as an emergency.
I understand the two turned down ones are simply "lower".
I also understand that only the full siphon needs a gate valve and the others do not need a valve.... correct??
A few questions...
1) The intake of the breather tube.... where is that set at.... ?? It's not always open air, right? I'd think at some water level you want the water level to "seal" it to create a full siphon if the water level rises. But what level is right?
2) I notice several designs including the original with a capped T and elbow.... why's that?? Why not 2 elbows?? I get it for the one with the breather tube but why on the full siphon???
3) Is what I wrote above on what I think I understand correct???
Thanks
Mark
sleepydoc
Team RC
The original is still the standard, with a few notes:
- you don't need valves on the emergency or open channel, just the siphon
- Use a gate valve rather than a ball valve that Bean originally showed
- Bean used sanitary tees, but regular tees will work fine as well. The capped tee is there to allow access to clean the pipe. This is rarely if ever necessary, and people have also foregone it without issue.
The height of the tubing is traditionally just above the level of the dry emergency standpipe. Setting it like this gives the following operation as water rises:
- siphon standpipe & open channel start to take water
- Water rises and flow increases in both open channel and siphon standpipes. The siphon standpipe still has air in it, causing turbulence and reducing its capacity.
- The water continues to rise to the level of the emergency standpipe. (it may or may not flow into the emergency, depending on how quickly the siphon purges the air.)
- The water level stays up for a period of time until the air is purged out of the siphon standpipe and it starts operating at full flow. At this time the water level begins to drop.
- If the water level continues to rise (say because the siphon is clogged,) the air tube for the open channel becomes occluded and it turns into a siphon, rapidly draining the overflow.
- If the air tubing gets submerged before the siphon pipe completely purges the air, the system will start "˜flushing' cyclically - the open channel converts to a siphon, dropping the level in the overflow to the point that both it and the siphon channel entrain air. The water level will then rise again until the tubing gets submerged again, starting the process anew. This is why you need to make sure the air tubing for the open channel does not get submerged during normal startup operation.
That actually made a lot of sense...
breather tube is set slightly above the open stand pipe such that if the water level rises to that point it becomes a full siphon.
clean out's make sense as well... screw on caps with tape.... can't see ever needing that but okay.
Question... height of the open stand pipe relative to the weir in the tank?? I had read that it is set slightly above the height of the weir somewhere. Is that right? If so, how much? Also why is that? I've got water flowing from the tank into the internal overflow box. I've got water flowing through the three hole in the back of the tank into the external box. I understand the relative height of the breather to the open channel and why that makes sense now. What sets the height of the open channel and why?
Thanks much.
Mark
breather tube is set slightly above the open stand pipe such that if the water level rises to that point it becomes a full siphon.
clean out's make sense as well... screw on caps with tape.... can't see ever needing that but okay.
Question... height of the open stand pipe relative to the weir in the tank?? I had read that it is set slightly above the height of the weir somewhere. Is that right? If so, how much? Also why is that? I've got water flowing from the tank into the internal overflow box. I've got water flowing through the three hole in the back of the tank into the external box. I understand the relative height of the breather to the open channel and why that makes sense now. What sets the height of the open channel and why?
Thanks much.
Mark
sleepydoc
Team RC
Use pipe thread sealant on threaded PVC fittings. Easier and works far better than tape.
The open pipe needs to be high enough to allow enough head pressure to purge the air from the siphon channel and low enough so that you don't risk a tank overflow in the event that you actually use it. For me that was about ⅜" above the weir and 1" below the inner lip of the rim.
Is your overflow box internal or external? If it's external, than you have some other options for setting up the plumbing.
It's generally recommended that the top of the overflow box be at the same level as the top of the tank, so you don't risk flooding from the overflow box before you would flood from the tank.
The siphon standpipe can simply be an open pipe at the bottom, or have the downturned elbow. The only requirement is that it's deep enough so that it doesn't entrain air from the water surface when draining.
Another option I've seen used for the open standpipe is an inverted P trap with a clean out hole at the top; no tubing. You simply set the height of the top of the P trap to the point you want the water to cover the hole, relative to the emergency drain.
Floyd Turbo has posted pictures of this somewhere (I believe in the bean thread)
Thanks for the feedback! I'll look into the Durso then.
the real thing is, there's no magic fixed formula for bean animal. I feel like a lot of people try to copy bean animal to the T, and even he admitted he only built it that particular way due to what parts he had on hand at the moment. really the notion is just 3 drains with one being siphon+gate valve, one being trickle, and one emergency. there's numerous ways to actually make it work, though. there's not some single plumbing formula that must be followed, and half of this game is experimentation, so buy some extra pvc and play around!
the latest version would be the one you do next, on your tank, and any slight variations that may have.
There's all sorts of variations you can do. If your siphon sits low enough, you can forego the double-90 and just stick a strainer on it. Or, turn one of the 90s slightly so there's less chance of an air bubble getting stuck in there. Or even drill it. Among other variations of this for the full siphon drain...
depending on your water level, the durso doesn't always need an airhose in it, sometimes just drilling a hole at the right spot on the 90 is all you need.
the latest version would be the one you do next, on your tank, and any slight variations that may have.
There's all sorts of variations you can do. If your siphon sits low enough, you can forego the double-90 and just stick a strainer on it. Or, turn one of the 90s slightly so there's less chance of an air bubble getting stuck in there. Or even drill it. Among other variations of this for the full siphon drain...
depending on your water level, the durso doesn't always need an airhose in it, sometimes just drilling a hole at the right spot on the 90 is all you need.
nanomania
New member
54x24x24"dt and sump 54x20x17 the holes will be on the side, not at the back or bottom. Means on the 24" side.
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personally i'd go longer than 30cm....30cm is about 12". 18" would be 1/3 of your tank. I would aim for the 18-24" range to be honest, maybe even jump to 24"...which is like 60cm.
the best option is to go full length, though, if you can. Bigger is better, in this case.
nanomania
New member
Problem is if i go 24" it will look ugly on the side.
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I'd go as close to 18" as you could then...12" will probably work but i'd expect the water level to rise a bit higher on it at full fl ow, you'd want to make sure you make the teeth really tall, or, go toothless and just set it low enough that it'll handle all the flow without running your tank level too high.
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