Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Lsufan]

Within the couple hundred pages here I think someone has shared whereabouts the bulkheads are drilled for this setup. I am drilling for 1" bulkheads on a 6' 125 gallon. From what I understand, 2.5" down from the inside lip of the trim?

The top of coast to coast overflow box should line up with the bottom of the trim around the outside of the tank?

The siphon elbow should be 3/4" from the bottom of the coast to coast box?

The top of the upturned emergency elbow should be 1" underneath the top of the coast to coast box?

The diameter of the hole u are drilling is what decides how far from the top or edge of the glass u want to drill. Most 1" bulkheads call for a 45mm hole which is 1 3/4",So u would be 1 3/4" from the top of the tank to the top of your hole. So it will be 2 5/8" from the top of tank to center of your hole. U also want to have a minimum of 1 3/4" of glass between the holes. It can be more but not less. This is assuming your bulkheads call for 1 3/4" holes. If yours are different just do the math but I wanted to give a example incase I didn't explain it well.

Your emergency is going to be what it is. It doesn't have to be 1" below your overflow & it probably won't. If it ends up 1/4" or 1/2" u will be fine. Drill all your holes for the bulkheads the same height & let the emergency just be what it is.

The syphon elbow being 3/4" off the bottom will be fine. But that will be determined by how tall u build the overflow box. Mine is about 1/2" off the bottom & it works fine.

 

[sleepydoc]

Within the couple hundred pages here I think someone has shared whereabouts the bulkheads are drilled for this setup. I am drilling for 1" bulkheads on a 6' 125 gallon. From what I understand, 2.5" down from the inside lip of the trim?

The top of coast to coast overflow box should line up with the bottom of the trim around the outside of the tank?

The siphon elbow should be 3/4" from the bottom of the coast to coast box?

The top of the upturned emergency elbow should be 1" underneath the top of the coast to coast box?

Here is a link with general tips on drilling. Post 7 in this thread has a diagram showing the minimum recommended clearances.

 

[bozoreefer]

Hey guys,

I have a 225 72x30x24 with a center overflow. The bulk heads are 1.5 inch and the full siphon is 1.5, open siphon 1.25 and the emergency is 1 inch when inside the overflow.

Everything below the overflow reduces to 1 inch.

My issues:

1. I have a dc12000 pump that is maxed out and I have to close the Full siphon gate valve to almost closed to get the perfect height in the center overflow.

Should I get a bigger pump to solve this issue?

2. The full and open siphon are the same height inside the center overflow.
Should I make the Full Siphon pipe a little lower than the open siphon?

Ive noticed that when I have the full siphon gate valve closed too much, the open siphon starts to suck up much more water than it should. This leads to think that I need a valve on the open siphon as well. Never had one before on an open siphon bean animal drain.

Would making the closed siphon pipe lower solve this problem?


Thanks!

 

[sleepydoc]

Why did you downsize the plumbing?

General comments:

• If you downsize, it creates a stricture where snails will tend to get stuck - they crawl in the larger pipe and get stuck at the reducing bushing
• If the siphon channel can handle the flow and isn't all the way open, you should be fine. In general perturbations in return flow will cause less rather than more flow. Even if you go up a bit, you have overhead to handle it by nature of the bean's design.
• Smaller diameter pipe in the open channel can handle less flow quietly, so you have a smaller bandwidth, or range of quiet flows the system can handle.
• What you describe with the open channel becoming noisy as you close the siphon gate is expected behavior. Closing the gate increases the flow in the open channel above the point where it operates quietly.

Is the gate valve closed at all or completely open? Unless it's completely open, you should be fine. It's probably too late, but if you have a section where you downsize the pipe, it's a good idea to have it removable for the reason mentioned above.

Increasing the open channel diameter will give you more headroom before you get noise; that may not be necessary, though.

I would increase the diameter of the dry emergency to ensure that it can handle the required flow since it generally won't operate as a full siphon even if the other two are clogged due to it's proximity to the surface of the water.

 

[LXXero]

Why did you downsize the plumbing?

Agreed, if anything, he should have did the exact opposite of what he did.

Emergency 1.5", open channel/trickle 1.25, and full siphon 1", would make a lot more sense to me, than the opposite. With the emergency being 1" and the siphon and trickle being larger, this basically means the emergency is way undersized.

I always suggest the largest emergency possible. Or the largest pipe to be used as the emergency...

Short of that, I'd suggest lowering the full siphon.

Don't put a gate on the open channel - you're essentially defeating the safety mechanisms if you do that. You may as well run a herbie! (OK it still might be better than a herbie, but not with a single 1" emergency for 2x over 1" tuned siphons!!!)

 

[EvMiBo]

Has anyone added some type of screen into their overflow to block fish from going into the overflow? if so what material are you using?

 

[sleepydoc]

Has anyone added some type of screen into their overflow to block fish from going into the overflow? if so what material are you using?

I have a piece of the 1/4" BRS netting that I used for my tank cover over the siphon channel. Mainly to prevent snails from getting up in there. The open channel I left open. I had a small clown fish go for a ride, but I just fished him out of the sump when I found him the next day. i figure the gate valve in the siphon channel will cause an issue with critters getting stuck, but the open channel is open the whole way, so what ever goes in can get out easily enough.

 

[EvMiBo]

I just lost a wrasse who got stuck perpendicularly in the suction of the primary drain. I actually lost a Blenny the same way 2 years ago so this is long overdue.

may be getting this. Or something like it to create a wall/barrier so the fish don't go over.

 

[pfoxgrover]

I was thinking of trying black light diffuser (egg crate). Has anyone tried that?

 

[nanomania]

Will 2x 2" pvc drains support 7000 to 9000 lph return pump? Also would be adding an sos 2" drain just incase therr is a failure. As the drains will be on the sides, how long diy acrylic surface skimmer can i go for?? 12"?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

 

[LXXero]

Will 2x 2" pvc drains support 7000 to 9000 lph return pump? Also would be adding an sos 2" drain just incase therr is a failure. As the drains will be on the sides, how long diy acrylic surface skimmer can i go for?? 12"?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

even 2x 1.5" would handle that just fine. 1" full siphon will handle 2000-2400GPH, so that flow rate might even work through 2x 1"....but that'd be cutting it close. I'd do 1.5 though. 1.5 already needs a 2.5" drillbit. 2" needs a nearly 3" hole. not worth the added risk unless you really need it, imho.

I would do 3x 1.5" bean animal setup if you have the option, but 2x1.5" might even be OK. 1x1.5 for the siphon and 1x2.0 for the emergency/backup would be better, more leeway if you were to forego the 3rd drain. If you add the third drain, then 3x1.5" would be sufficient

BTW for the non-metric folks this is 1850-2377GPH, give or take. no problem for a 1.5" drain with full siphon, and at the upper end of 1" capacity. 2" capacity is wayyy higher.

 

[nanomania]

even 2x 1.5" would handle that just fine. 1" full siphon will handle 2000-2400GPH, so that flow rate might even work through 2x 1"....but that'd be cutting it close. I'd do 1.5 though. 1.5 already needs a 2.5" drillbit. 2" needs a nearly 3" hole. not worth the added risk unless you really need it, imho.

I would do 3x 1.5" bean animal setup if you have the option, but 2x1.5" might even be OK. 1x1.5 for the siphon and 1x2.0 for the emergency/backup would be better, more leeway if you were to forego the 3rd drain. If you add the third drain, then 3x1.5" would be sufficient

BTW for the non-metric folks this is 1850-2377GPH, give or take. no problem for a 1.5" drain with full siphon, and at the upper end of 1" capacity. 2" capacity is wayyy higher.

Thank you..

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

 

[nanomania]

even 2x 1.5" would handle that just fine. 1" full siphon will handle 2000-2400GPH, so that flow rate might even work through 2x 1"....but that'd be cutting it close. I'd do 1.5 though. 1.5 already needs a 2.5" drillbit. 2" needs a nearly 3" hole. not worth the added risk unless you really need it, imho.

I would do 3x 1.5" bean animal setup if you have the option, but 2x1.5" might even be OK. 1x1.5 for the siphon and 1x2.0 for the emergency/backup would be better, more leeway if you were to forego the 3rd drain. If you add the third drain, then 3x1.5" would be sufficient

BTW for the non-metric folks this is 1850-2377GPH, give or take. no problem for a 1.5" drain with full siphon, and at the upper end of 1" capacity. 2" capacity is wayyy higher.

But how long surface skimmer should i build? Is 30cm fine??

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

 

[LXXero]

how big is the tank? what are the tank dimensions? I like to have it at least 1/3rd the length minimum. some people go coast-to-coast (full length), that's the best option if you can do it. I just opted for a tad over 1/3rd (18" in 48" tank....16" would be 1/3rd exactly, so i went a little over)

apologize for giving non-metric numbers, i wish we used it here too.

 

[NASAGeek]

Gents.... wading through 364 pages of posts is painful...

A pointer please.... where is the "latest" version of the Beananimal design??? Or is the original still the standard.

My display tank is 210g, 120g refugium and extra water volume, 40 g sump. 370g total in the system. I know the 120g is overkill... but I had the tank, so I put it to good use.

My display will have BeanAnimal. 72" tank. 60" overflow box with 3x 60mm holes flowing into an external box. 20" long, 6" deep, 6" wide external box for the 1 1/2" beananimal.

I understand the basic principles.... 2 standpipes "turned down" elbows... one with a breather tube, one with out. 1 open standpipe.

I understand the open standpipe height is supposed to be set just above the height of the weir as an emergency.

I understand the two turned down ones are simply "lower".

I also understand that only the full siphon needs a gate valve and the others do not need a valve.... correct??

A few questions...
1) The intake of the breather tube.... where is that set at.... ?? It's not always open air, right? I'd think at some water level you want the water level to "seal" it to create a full siphon if the water level rises. But what level is right?

2) I notice several designs including the original with a capped T and elbow.... why's that?? Why not 2 elbows?? I get it for the one with the breather tube but why on the full siphon???

3) Is what I wrote above on what I think I understand correct???

Thanks
Mark

 

[sleepydoc]

Gents.... wading through 364 pages of posts is painful...

A pointer please.... where is the "latest" version of the Beananimal design??? Or is the original still the standard.

My display tank is 210g, 120g refugium and extra water volume, 40 g sump. 370g total in the system. I know the 120g is overkill... but I had the tank, so I put it to good use.

My display will have BeanAnimal. 72" tank. 60" overflow box with 3x 60mm holes flowing into an external box. 20" long, 6" deep, 6" wide external box for the 1 1/2" beananimal.

I understand the basic principles.... 2 standpipes "turned down" elbows... one with a breather tube, one with out. 1 open standpipe.

I understand the open standpipe height is supposed to be set just above the height of the weir as an emergency.

I understand the two turned down ones are simply "lower".

I also understand that only the full siphon needs a gate valve and the others do not need a valve.... correct??

A few questions...
1) The intake of the breather tube.... where is that set at.... ?? It's not always open air, right? I'd think at some water level you want the water level to "seal" it to create a full siphon if the water level rises. But what level is right?

2) I notice several designs including the original with a capped T and elbow.... why's that?? Why not 2 elbows?? I get it for the one with the breather tube but why on the full siphon???

3) Is what I wrote above on what I think I understand correct???

Thanks
Mark

The original is still the standard, with a few notes:

• you don't need valves on the emergency or open channel, just the siphon
• Use a gate valve rather than a ball valve that Bean originally showed
• Bean used sanitary tees, but regular tees will work fine as well. The capped tee is there to allow access to clean the pipe. This is rarely if ever necessary, and people have also foregone it without issue.

The open channel with the breather tube is essentially a Durso standpipe - a design that entrains air intentionally to improve the flow without gurgling. When the air flow is interrupted by the opening to the tube getting covered with water, the pipe will try to convert to a full siphon, increasing its flow and rapidly sucking the water out of the overflow.


The height of the tubing is traditionally just above the level of the dry emergency standpipe. Setting it like this gives the following operation as water rises:

• siphon standpipe & open channel start to take water
• Water rises and flow increases in both open channel and siphon standpipes. The siphon standpipe still has air in it, causing turbulence and reducing its capacity.
• The water continues to rise to the level of the emergency standpipe. (it may or may not flow into the emergency, depending on how quickly the siphon purges the air.)
• The water level stays up for a period of time until the air is purged out of the siphon standpipe and it starts operating at full flow. At this time the water level begins to drop.
• If the water level continues to rise (say because the siphon is clogged,) the air tube for the open channel becomes occluded and it turns into a siphon, rapidly draining the overflow.
• If the air tubing gets submerged before the siphon pipe completely purges the air, the system will start "˜flushing' cyclically - the open channel converts to a siphon, dropping the level in the overflow to the point that both it and the siphon channel entrain air. The water level will then rise again until the tubing gets submerged again, starting the process anew. This is why you need to make sure the air tubing for the open channel does not get submerged during normal startup operation.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[NASAGeek]

That actually made a lot of sense...

breather tube is set slightly above the open stand pipe such that if the water level rises to that point it becomes a full siphon.

clean out's make sense as well... screw on caps with tape.... can't see ever needing that but okay.

Question... height of the open stand pipe relative to the weir in the tank?? I had read that it is set slightly above the height of the weir somewhere. Is that right? If so, how much? Also why is that? I've got water flowing from the tank into the internal overflow box. I've got water flowing through the three hole in the back of the tank into the external box. I understand the relative height of the breather to the open channel and why that makes sense now. What sets the height of the open channel and why?

Thanks much.
Mark

 

[sleepydoc]

clean out's make sense as well... screw on caps with tape.... can't see ever needing that but okay.

Use pipe thread sealant on threaded PVC fittings. Easier and works far better than tape.

Question... height of the open stand pipe relative to the weir in the tank?? I had read that it is set slightly above the height of the weir somewhere. Is that right? If so, how much? Also why is that? I've got water flowing from the tank into the internal overflow box. I've got water flowing through the three hole in the back of the tank into the external box. I understand the relative height of the breather to the open channel and why that makes sense now. What sets the height of the open channel and why?

Thanks much.
Mark

The open pipe needs to be high enough to allow enough head pressure to purge the air from the siphon channel and low enough so that you don't risk a tank overflow in the event that you actually use it. For me that was about ⅜" above the weir and 1" below the inner lip of the rim.

Is your overflow box internal or external? If it's external, than you have some other options for setting up the plumbing.

It's generally recommended that the top of the overflow box be at the same level as the top of the tank, so you don't risk flooding from the overflow box before you would flood from the tank.

The siphon standpipe can simply be an open pipe at the bottom, or have the downturned elbow. The only requirement is that it's deep enough so that it doesn't entrain air from the water surface when draining.

Another option I've seen used for the open standpipe is an inverted P trap with a clean out hole at the top; no tubing. You simply set the height of the top of the P trap to the point you want the water to cover the hole, relative to the emergency drain.

Floyd Turbo has posted pictures of this somewhere (I believe in the bean thread)

 

[NASAGeek]

Great answers and explanations. Thanks much. Makes sense.

M

 

[Leanan]

I would recommend a Durso type standpipe, with a decent flat weir overflow box. A nano just does not have the flow rates to require a high performance overflow/standpipe system. So good advice here. The herbie is overkill as well though.

Thanks for the feedback! I'll look into the Durso then.