Skimmerless Systems "Say I"

Reef Maniac

New member
I have been without a skimmer for about 6 months now, And haven't noticed any adverse effects to speak of. It wasn't by choice either, (I could never get the darn thing to work right).
I also have a refugium, which I was told would act as a good substitution...
1. Do we really need these devices?
2. Why does a system like mine work without one?
3. What is a skimmer actually taking out?
4. Do we really need these devices?
5. Do we really need these devices?
6. Do we really need these devices?
 
My system is 9 months old, and I have been skimmerless. I was OK until about a mnth ago. I started with the attack of the hair algae.

This time next week, I cannot say I will still be skimmerless.
DC
 
Neither my 20 reef or my 7 reef have a skimmer. I believe my more frequent water changes and carbon use keep everything in good check. The largest tank I've run without one is a 40 but I eventually did use one for the algae problems I kept having...

Cameron
 
I started my current tank skimmerless and have been running for about 7 months. Unfortunately, I've started having to battle slime algae and diatoms this past month. Still not sure what's gone wrong...everything seems to check out. :confused:
 
We have not used a skimmer for at least 3 years. The tank looks good. We have not had a hair algae problem during that time although we do get the red slime type algae occassionally like many other people.

I discontinued skimming when a piece on the skimmer broke. Due to limited space, and difficulty dealing with the skimmer, I decided to discontinue skimming.

We also haven't had a water change (except when adding new fish and we need to replenish the water used to aclimatize the fish to the water in the tank).

Julien Sprung has a Jauber-style live sand bed system. If I remember correctly, an article in Sea Scope stated that he had not used a skimmer for a while.

I believe that our water may be a little yellowish.

I believe that a person should generally use a skimmer unless there is a good reason for not using it. If you decide not to use one, then make sure that you have a refugium and a good sand bed.
 
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
No skimmer. 18 tall with 5 gallon refugium. lit 24x7 and stocked with razor caulerpa and worms/pods etc.
Soon to be moving to a 60 gallon with 29 gallon sump and 5 gallon refugium.


staying skimmerless.
 
IME if you don't have a skimmer to pull out nutrients you need a refugium with caulerpa to pull nutrients out. VALVOLNIA grows when you have excess nutrients. Someting a skimmer can help with. Or caulerpa will do the same. But imo you need on or another. if you have fish. Probally don't need either is you have 1-2 fish and corals but is you stock with fish I would have a skimmer.
 
I'd say that you may or may not need a skimmer for any given reef tank . . . if you are starting up a new tank with uncured live rock, if you have a high bioload, or (maybe) if you want to keep SPS corals, then I'd run a skimmer. If you have a low bioload and have designed the tank to run skimmerless, I'd say that you don't need one.

Skimmers strip out organic wastes before they break down and pollute the tank. They also, IMHO, strip out a good deal of plankton and other filter-feeder food in the water. They make a tank less susceptible to disasters (dead fish discovered a day later, overfeeding accidentally, . . .), but they also inhibit the growth of filter feeders (fanworms, sponges, some corals, may hurt the food sources of some fish like mandarins, . . . ).

If you are going skimmerless, I'd have a tank with lots of live rock, preferably a deep sand bed, and preferably a refugium with macroalgae or macroalgae in the main tank. You also need to do regular partial water changes, and maybe carbon.

I had a 58 gallon that ran with an ETS downdraft skimmer (Reef Devil) and skimmerless. The only difference was that the tank had a LOT more feather dusters and sponges when the skimmer was off . . . I would routinely see snails with their shells covered with brown sponge and 20 feather dusters on top of that (and this is a half inch wide snail; looks more like an urchin!).

I like skimmerless systems, and my next tank (when I move and set up the tank again) will be skimmerless. But the ETS will be hooked up just in case . . .
 
reef tank don't produce much plankton anyway. I run a bullet 2 skimmer mak4 pump. i have a mak4 pump for my seaswirl. The one on my skimmer feed my reactor and my refugium. I have mass tube worms poloyps ect. probally from the refugium but They go through heavy skimming 2 big /med pumps 2 powerhead. I got a half dead manderine from lfs fatten it up. I have a 120g 10g refugium dsb. @100-130lbs lr. Skimming isn't needed but I would halve an alga tank. i prefer skimming cuz I like to feed alot. Food is cheap when you make it and my animals stay fat.
 
When patiently built up, a skimmerless can handle a fantastic bioload. The biofiltration capacity is directly proportional to the bioload... When one increases, so does the other. If you disproportionately imbalance the system, then of course you will have problems. It's great to see that as few as two years ago most folks recoiled in horror at the thought of anyone suggesting a skimmer wasn't mandatory. LOL ;) Now the skimmer has definitively been reduced to "optional" as enough folks have shown that not only is it easy to start out skimmerless as a new hobbyist, but it's also very clear and easy to understand. I suppose for those that don't quite have an idea on how much to feed, they can dump in a truckload and just hope that enough fish/corals get their share before it is skimmed. But it's easy to get a general idea of how much your tank can consume, and then just be consistant. And my, those corals love the natural plankton-green debris wiped off the tank sides once a week.... Of course, with enough caulerpa, there's usually too much competition for any nuisance algae to form.... We've successfully ran all our systems with caulerpa directly in the main show tank, eliminating any need for any complicated refugiums. Pics on the site show some pretty ways to integrate caulerpa into a system.... In our latest show, we have all the caulerpa contained to one corner with some live rock.... That way the danger of snaring any corals is reduced. We just have to pluck the stray strands once a week... Everything is behaving beautifully, and all varieties of corals are doing smashing! :)

I have moved on in the bio-ecosystem sense, ;) and thus my skimmer has joined the plethora of other mechanical filtrations acquired along my journey, signifying the changes/advances made, and my ability to change with the times. :D Isn't there a whole forum about successful skimmerless systems, some with/without refugiums, with/without sumps, and still maintaining all sorts of beautiful corals? :D :D Better yet, didn't some guy named Volk put together a whole beautiful site of skimmerless systems? hehe... We used to have to argue in defense of skimmerless... But nobody is so bull-headed as to say it can't be done unless there's a "low bioload" anymore.... Isn't change, and our ability to accept progress and learn as individuals wonderful? :D Skimmers do allow folks to "overfeed", but if they're not dialed in "just right" they might take out too much otherwise useful nutrients as well... Isn't it better to just learn the right amount that your system will consume? Then it's just remembering to feed! ;)
I'd recommend 1/2 Formula cube per fish, MWF
Flake food daily
Wardley's shrimp pellets fed indiscriminately to the sandbed (I don't think you could ever feed too much of those, and the fish all love the treats too!
Other assorted treats, increasing as the sandbed/infauna/critter population grows. These tanks turn into natural garbage disposals! :D When your whole sandbed starts turning black, that might be a sign of too much over-eagerness.

I dunno.... I have more trouble deciding if our dog (Boxer) eats enough daily, or if he needs more/less.... Tank-droppings are easy stuff.... Everything gets consumed/eaten if you have enough stuff in there to enjoy! :)

Now, what they NEED to do is rig up a skimmer to my own rear hatch, that I might be able to go to my favorite Friday Seafood buffet up in Reno (only been there once, but it was GREAT!!) Then maybe I could sit down for a few hours and just go to town on all the yummy food, and see if that skimmer might clear my excess food so I could continue to sloth back for a few more plates - maybe even a couple of desserts!! :D

But whatever the case, skimmers will never become quite obsolete - you can always find a stoner eager to buy a custom bong. Mine was sitting out on my patio and I had more than a few neighbors finally approach me about when they would be "invited" to come "smoke some" with me, nodding indicatively at my "bong."
Oh, if this was a poll..... I
 
:lol: Monty...

I'm setting up my first reef in my 75 gallon. Intend on having a DSB lots of Live Rock and a refugium (w another live DSB) + MHs for illumination. I'm a bit confused on this to skimm or not to skimm (ah but that is the question!-sorry! :D ) deal.

Since this is my first setup should I buy a skimmer to use while the sand and rock are curing and slowly wean the skimmer off the tank as it matures? If I were to do that I'd just buy a couple airstone driven Lees. Or is going skimmerless something for you with a lot more experience?
 
I have a 90 gallon reef with DSB and plenum. No skimmer but a tidepool 2 sump running with occasional Carbon. Tank has been up for about 3 months. Little nuisance algae. I'm allowing some macro algae and calurpa to grow in one area of the tank and I plan to weed the rest. So far, everything reads zero. Only time will tell though.
 
I'm skimmerless on a 1 1/2 year old 29 gal. and a 1 year old 37 gal. I am slowly weaning my 200 off the skimmer (it's only a Berlin HOT anyway so it isn't much of a skimmer for that size tank). I have a little bit of hair algae in the 37 but it's no big deal.

We started the 200 skimmerless but after about 4 or 5 weeks we decided we needed some skimming to get us over the new tank hump. Things are looking much better though we do still have some cyano. Again, no big deal. We have the equipment to hook up a nice refugium, we just have to find the time to do it. We are now running the skimmer approximately 10 hours a day.

Laurie
 
I have 55 gal skimmerless 2 years old has been skimmerless 1 year now. I do grow macro in the sump. No mech. filtration. I have 20 gal about a year old never run a skimmer but i do grow macro in the tank. No mech. filtration at all. Never had a problem with algea, or cayno bactiria. In either tank. But i do not keep sps in these two tanks but i have a very health Tiger Derasea clam that is growing like crazy.HTH
 
aye

aye

Set up my 100 gallon as skimmerless about 5 months ago. 140 pounds of live rock. No sump. Got the caulerpa growing. I like being skimmerless. Less noise, less clutter, and I feel confident that if the power goes out for a few hours that everyone will be fine (and the power has gone out for a few hours several times). I don't have any valonia. Occasionally, a low flow area will get a red slime patch; I usually just adjust my powerheads. I do water changes occasionally, mainly to make up for utilized nutrients.
 
I'm working towards skimmerless myself, but here's my philosophy.
Things like skimmers are great for those of us with less experience, a less than rock solidly established tank, less apt to strictly follow water change schedules, and a little less courage. They're a bit of a buffer for our mistakes and shortcomings, and at this point, while my tank's still under a year old, it's a bit of peace of mind.
That said, my skimmer was broken for a couple of weeks recently, and things only looked healthier. Granted, my fish load is 2 percs in a 55, but that's about right for me. I'm still too nervous to trust my own ability to keep things happy to leave it as such. My ideal system is so perfectly balanced, no skimmer, no carbon, weekly water changes..and I'm working to that goal. I just think that for newbies and novices, skimmerless tanks are better left to those with a deeper understanding of the reef - the kind that comes best with experience.
Fish Whisperer, as always, I love your posts!
 
I'll jump in.........My tank has been skimmerless for 3 months now and I have a 75 gallon 90 lbs of live rock, 5+" DSB very live and a 5" DSB in a 20 gallon refugium w/ grape caluepra. I have started feeding DT and reef solutions for the new 10 sps frags from Dr. mac and no signs of excess algae. I have even had growth on most of the sps. I will for some reason always think that I need a skimmer but I have been slowly weened away from it completely.


Go Skimmerless!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Swords:

Swords:

Hi, and no, I do not think you should go buy a skimmer to get you started. I do not think it is an issue that needs to be left to the "experienced." Trust me, it takes more experience to understand/run a skimmer than it does to not. ;) The au-natural concept is quite easy to understand... If you allow time for a natural cycle (found here in the archives, or on my website: New Tank Cycling), your sandbed will immediately begin establishing the bacterium necessary to process nitrates. I, for one, have a total "hands-off" approach, to any new system. Detrivores for the hair algae, caulerpa to start major consumption of nutrients that would otherwise feed nuisance algae.... I basically let the tank sit and run for no less than three months before I do a thing to it. What could be easier, or more explainable to a newbie? Sure, it will smell, look horrible, etc... But, my oh my, if things don't have a way of balancing themselves out if we just trust nature to do her job. :) In fact, or latest show was done with the nasties before the three month period. With no water changes to date (we don't change water in any of our systems on a regular basis) we haven't had any recurrence of hair algae (oh, it was bad at first), nor have we had any red cyano. My first skimmered tank had cyano so bad we had to treat with maracyn to help out. So, I've never been "sold" that a skimmer is any type of "savior", even to the beginner. Sure, it helps one's ability to overfeed - but it might also be an adverse foe to some folks, even as it's pulling out nutrients as quickly as the newbie is adding expensive bottles of snake oil to "replenish" them. I think the easiest way to set up a system is to go skimmerless, be patient, let things develop naturally within the sandbed, and then one can learn about all the expensive toys and gadgets and make an educated guess as to whether or not one wants to acquire any such gizmos. My guess is that their tank will be looking so awesome that most newbies would shrug off both the need and desire to have excell life-support systems plugged into their tanks, actually sucking life out of the system. ;) I've set up a fair share of brand-new folks with marine systems, and a skimmer has never been a part of the "process." That's just more to explain, more to operate, and I believe - a false sense of security. To date, nobody has torn down their systems out of frustration; they are all doing really well.
Of far more importance to pass on to newcomers to the hobby is the importance of fish compatibility and overstocking. Sandbeds have allowed us to come milestones, and there's far more important things which will measure our success and efforts than a skimmer. I'm not down on anybody that uses a skimmer, nor do I think that it takes any type of "experienced" reefer to "dare" to go skimmerless... That was the myth a couple of years ago. Far too many brand spankin' new hobbyists have set up beautiful skimmerless reefs from the start and the only concept they've needed to understand was patience. Of course, even a skimmer won't cure impatience, eh?
Now, I don't advocate anyone to just "unplug" their skimmers... No, no no... ;) It's far easier to start out without one than it is to yank something that's prevented your system from developing naturally. And skimmer v. non-skimmered involves no measure of experience. Well, actually, it requires more knowledge to understand/use a skimmer than it does to not, as I've mentioned somewhat tongue in cheek. ;)

I think the toughest thing about skimmers is admitting that it's a multi-hundred dollar piece of equipment that we just don't need, anymore. A sandbed and some caulerpa are far cheaper, and most people with a skimmer have a sandbed, anyway. :confused: I used to justify my collection of skimmers, but as I helped brand new hobbyists start out without any, I had to put my self-important "tools" further back into the shed lest they be questioned!! :D

"What's that???"
"Oh, it's something that we used to have to use... Before sandbeds and macroalgae, we used to rely heavily on mechanical filtration and/or water changes to remove the buildup of everything we put in the tank."
"Oh......"
"Ya, just mix your salt, keep good water circulation, keep the temp up, lay down your sandbed, toss in some cocktail shrimp and just leave everything ALONE for two months... Can you give me that????
"Well, what about the fish????"
"Just stir your sand - that will help spread the bacteria around... Put some pieces of dry base lace/bowl rock in there, and that will be the future home to lots of bugs and critters."
"But what do I need to DO?????"
"Nothing.... Just keep fresh air in the room :D "
"But, I thought this was so much harder???"
"Oh, we can complicate things, if you'd like.... Wanna hook up some stuff with plugs that requires more of your time??? :D "
"Uh... no, I guess not.... You're sure it's this easy?"
"Hey, see that tank over there???"
"Yeah, but you've been doing this for so long....."
"Hey, pal, that tank was set up brand new earlier this year.... My 11 year-old daughter maintains it......"
"REALLY????? What does she do? She drops measured amounts of food in, and makes sure the water doesn't fall below this line.... If it does, we just add fresh water."


In all seriousness, this scenario has been somewhat more than played out a number of times. Of course, with my love to gab, I always tell folks I'm helping about water changes, what they are intended to do, and that it's a good thing to do at least in the beginning so one learns how to mix new saltwater into an established salinity range. There's a whole ton of "basic info" that needs to be parlayed to a newcomer to the hobby, including what a sandbed actually does, the importance of cleanup crews, and of course, let's not forget LIGHTING. The concept of how much and why we need $$ lighting is without a doubt the most intriguing/complicated concept to any new reefer. Skimmerless systems are gaining far more acceptance... Again, two years ago, this would have been a flamefest, no? But now, we seasoned "vets" can't argue with brand spankin' newbies with beautiful tanks who have never spent a moment with a skimmer in their ownership. They really have shown us that there is far more of a "stigma" attached to skimmerless tanks than there is complexity. ;) Again, I think that's because most of us feel a need to justify in any way the major dollars we plopped down on our skimmer armies. Once we "get over it", though, we can see the irony in how it's actually more complicated to use a skimmer than it is to just let nature do her job. :)
 
I have two 20 gallons and a 6 gallon run skimmerless. LOTS of macro algae. No sump or mechanical filtration (except thin sponges on powerheads & Eheim surface skimmer intakes). I kept a fat Mandarin in the 20 gallon for 12 weeks before moving her to the 240 gallon. The bioload is pretty low in these tanks and there is as much macro algae as corals, but these tanks are easy to maintain and the nitrates are zero.
 
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