So you got a new fish tank Newbie
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markfsanderson
New member
Waterkeeper,
Hurry Back! I'd like to see more about adding creatures and other 'newbie' related material. All told, I have about 5 years of fish keeping experience . . .unfortunately I had to give up my fish during tight times about 2 years ago . . I still miss my pugnacious African Cichlids . . . Will be starting an aquarium over the next couple of weeks . . .still not sure if it will be fish only or reef. A question:
- I'm assuming that cycling the tank for either reef or fish only is the same . . at what point do you need to make the decision during your setup technique?
PS: Get well soon . . .
Thanks!
Mark F. Sanderson
Hurry Back! I'd like to see more about adding creatures and other 'newbie' related material. All told, I have about 5 years of fish keeping experience . . .unfortunately I had to give up my fish during tight times about 2 years ago . . I still miss my pugnacious African Cichlids . . . Will be starting an aquarium over the next couple of weeks . . .still not sure if it will be fish only or reef. A question:
- I'm assuming that cycling the tank for either reef or fish only is the same . . at what point do you need to make the decision during your setup technique?
PS: Get well soon . . .
Thanks!
Mark F. Sanderson
Welcome to Reef central Mark!!
Cycling the tank for either reef or fish only is the same. You need to make sure your water quality is in perfect condition by using test kits. As far as making a decision during your setup technique. If you are referring to having a reef or FO (fish only) or FOWLR (fish only with live rock) it doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t really mater. You should have LR (live rock) in you system to help with filtration. HTH (hope that Helps).
Kevin
Cycling the tank for either reef or fish only is the same. You need to make sure your water quality is in perfect condition by using test kits. As far as making a decision during your setup technique. If you are referring to having a reef or FO (fish only) or FOWLR (fish only with live rock) it doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t really mater. You should have LR (live rock) in you system to help with filtration. HTH (hope that Helps).
Kevin
markfsanderson
New member
Kevin,
Thanks! So my understaind is that here are about 3 different types of tanks (with sub-specialties on each one):
1) Fish Only
2) Fish/Live Rock
3) Fish/Live Rock/Inverts (Coral, annemone (sp?), crustaceans, etc)
I want mine to be either 2 or 3. It appears that fish selection is particularly important for #3 . . .so I'd like to put off the decision for as long as possible to study all of options while the tank is starting up.
Regards,
Mark F. Sanderson
Thanks! So my understaind is that here are about 3 different types of tanks (with sub-specialties on each one):
1) Fish Only
2) Fish/Live Rock
3) Fish/Live Rock/Inverts (Coral, annemone (sp?), crustaceans, etc)
I want mine to be either 2 or 3. It appears that fish selection is particularly important for #3 . . .so I'd like to put off the decision for as long as possible to study all of options while the tank is starting up.
Regards,
Mark F. Sanderson
SOMEthinsFISHY
New member
YES welcome mark and i knew there was something wrong with the water keeper !! GRIN take care and get well soon !
Thanks to you all for worrying about me while I've been away.
Unfortunately for you Newbies---I'm BACK and you'd better shape up!!!
Actually I had to spend a week in the infirmary as my infected foot turned into my infected body. I still have a touch of tendonitis that makes it somewhat hard to type. Thank you all for your concerns.
First-
Hi Mark
[welcome]
Kevin hit the nail on the head when he said cycling a tank is the same no matter what you plan to keep. You need to get those little nitrifying buggers established so you don't have ammonia killing of your new charges. Having some LR is a FO tanks is really the way to go. The biological filtration provided by LR is as important to fish as it is to coral. I would also recommend a DBS to control nitrates. Overall the husbandry of a FO tank is about the same as a full reef and by setting it up right from the get-go you provide more latitude in what you can maintain in your tank.
To me the major difference in the FO is that you don't need the exotic lighting needed to maintain corals. This does save some bucks and you can always upgrade in the future.
Unfortunately for you Newbies---I'm BACK and you'd better shape up!!!
Actually I had to spend a week in the infirmary as my infected foot turned into my infected body. I still have a touch of tendonitis that makes it somewhat hard to type. Thank you all for your concerns.
First-
Hi Mark
[welcome]
Kevin hit the nail on the head when he said cycling a tank is the same no matter what you plan to keep. You need to get those little nitrifying buggers established so you don't have ammonia killing of your new charges. Having some LR is a FO tanks is really the way to go. The biological filtration provided by LR is as important to fish as it is to coral. I would also recommend a DBS to control nitrates. Overall the husbandry of a FO tank is about the same as a full reef and by setting it up right from the get-go you provide more latitude in what you can maintain in your tank.
To me the major difference in the FO is that you don't need the exotic lighting needed to maintain corals. This does save some bucks and you can always upgrade in the future.
Radicaljbr
Active member
Nice to see your back Tom!! RC ust has not been the same while you were gone.
Yes, I have been told it was a far more peaceful and entertaining site in my absence.
thewuf
Premium Member
WaterKeeper said:Thanks to you all for worrying about me while I've been away.
Unfortunately for you Newbies---I'm BACK and you'd better shape up!!!
Actually I had to spend a week in the infirmary as my infected foot turned into my infected body.
See! I told you what would happen if you kept kicking all that newbie [posterior region]
Welcome Home!
SOMEthinsFISHY
New member
did they fix your head at all head man ??
SOMEthinsFISHY said:
Nope and the Zoloft doesn't help either.
Anybody seen The Wuf's new tank? I love the pink gravel that he used for his DSB and those plastic plants look Great!!!!
Da Wuf's reef
Meanwhile, in my absence, Johnboy has filled his tank with tap water and leftover rocksalt from last winter. He also added a Miller Lite sign above the tank to provide romantic Moonlite for his spawning corals. Way to go SOMEthinsFISHY!!!
I think I'll try to PM the Newbie that got a "Cute, little Blue Marlin", Makaira nigricans, for their 20 gallon Hex. Words escape me at the moment.
Knyght
New member
WaterKeeper said:Nope and the Zoloft doesn't help either.
Anybody seen The Wuf's new tank? I love the pink gravel that he used for his DSB and those plastic plants look Great!!!!
Da Wuf's reef
Oh man that is Awesome!!!
now if I can just find out where he got that pink gravel.:rollface:
:beachbum:
SOMEthinsFISHY
New member
U guys are way too much but i like it !
All right gang; let's add a little content to this thread.
Recently there has been some talk about phosphate and how to remove it from one's tank. One of the things about phosphate is that it is all over the place. It is added to tap water to inhibit corrosion of the distribution system often in varying amounts. Polyphosphates (sodium hexametaphosphate) is usually added in low doses, around 1 ppm. Orthophosphate, like zinc orthophosphate may be added at levels as high as 20 ppm. Obviously that is a major reason to only use RO/DI to make salt and topoff your tank.
Another major source of phosphate is the food you feed your reef. This type of phosphate is usually organic phosphates and you may have a lot more than you think in your tank.
The reason for this is your test kit doesn't see it. Most test kits can only detect simple orthophosphates. They won't tell you how much poly or organic phosphate you might have in your tank. Polyphosphate can be boiled, with a little acid mixed in, and converted to orthophosphate. This is fairly easy to do. Organic phosphates are a different bird. They need to be boiled with strong acid under oxidizing conditions to be broken down to orthophosphate; a tedious and somewhat dangerous procedure.
Having had a lab I was able to check for total phosphate in tanks, that is all 3 types of phosphate. Often a tank that indicated zero phosphate with a standard test kit would have anywhere in the range of 3 to 9 ppm when boiled with sulfuric acid and potassium persulfate. A more vigorous treatment with hot nitric and perchloric acids (don't try this at home kids) would raise that range to from 3-14 ppm.
For the most part this unseen phosphate can be utilized by algae and may explain why reefers will have alga problems in a tank that tests near zero with their test kit.
Well what is one to do?
The phosphate "sponges" will remove simple phosphates but are not very effective in removing the more complex organic phosphates. Skimming can remove these phosphates better and, depending on the contact time and skimmer efficiency, can be quite effective. Harvesting algae from a fuge or sump will help but, as Doc Ron has pointed out, you need to have quite a harvest to really make a dent in it.
The hard fact is that there is no method to fully reduce it but you can limit the amount through regular water changes. By doing so you will reach a maximum level for your tank and after about 6 months this level should remain fairly constant. In a tank where water changes are not practiced the sky's the limit as it will accumulate indefinitely. This one of the reasons I still stick with doing weekly water changes of 10-20%.
There is more discussion about this and other "Mystery Science 3000" topics over on the chemistry forum for those of you who have the guts to venture there.
Recently there has been some talk about phosphate and how to remove it from one's tank. One of the things about phosphate is that it is all over the place. It is added to tap water to inhibit corrosion of the distribution system often in varying amounts. Polyphosphates (sodium hexametaphosphate) is usually added in low doses, around 1 ppm. Orthophosphate, like zinc orthophosphate may be added at levels as high as 20 ppm. Obviously that is a major reason to only use RO/DI to make salt and topoff your tank.
Another major source of phosphate is the food you feed your reef. This type of phosphate is usually organic phosphates and you may have a lot more than you think in your tank.
The reason for this is your test kit doesn't see it. Most test kits can only detect simple orthophosphates. They won't tell you how much poly or organic phosphate you might have in your tank. Polyphosphate can be boiled, with a little acid mixed in, and converted to orthophosphate. This is fairly easy to do. Organic phosphates are a different bird. They need to be boiled with strong acid under oxidizing conditions to be broken down to orthophosphate; a tedious and somewhat dangerous procedure.
Having had a lab I was able to check for total phosphate in tanks, that is all 3 types of phosphate. Often a tank that indicated zero phosphate with a standard test kit would have anywhere in the range of 3 to 9 ppm when boiled with sulfuric acid and potassium persulfate. A more vigorous treatment with hot nitric and perchloric acids (don't try this at home kids) would raise that range to from 3-14 ppm.
For the most part this unseen phosphate can be utilized by algae and may explain why reefers will have alga problems in a tank that tests near zero with their test kit.
Well what is one to do?
The phosphate "sponges" will remove simple phosphates but are not very effective in removing the more complex organic phosphates. Skimming can remove these phosphates better and, depending on the contact time and skimmer efficiency, can be quite effective. Harvesting algae from a fuge or sump will help but, as Doc Ron has pointed out, you need to have quite a harvest to really make a dent in it.
The hard fact is that there is no method to fully reduce it but you can limit the amount through regular water changes. By doing so you will reach a maximum level for your tank and after about 6 months this level should remain fairly constant. In a tank where water changes are not practiced the sky's the limit as it will accumulate indefinitely. This one of the reasons I still stick with doing weekly water changes of 10-20%.
There is more discussion about this and other "Mystery Science 3000" topics over on the chemistry forum for those of you who have the guts to venture there.
:lol:
Start messing with that perchloric and I bet you get a visit from someone from the Office of Homeland Security.
Start messing with that perchloric and I bet you get a visit from someone from the Office of Homeland Security.
crazyfingersmike
Premium Member
Heck, we'll all probably get a visit just for reading about them
SOMEthinsFISHY
New member
oh i have the guts alright but i also have so much hair algae that it is killing me !!
crazyfingersmike said:Heck, we'll all probably get a visit just for reading about them
Especially when reading about them from a guy from Ohio, home of G. Frederick Smith Chemical Company, the main manufacturer of perchlorates in the world.
Johnboy,
Give me a little more info on the hair algae. Has it been around since your tank cycled? Is the coralline on your LR doing well? What type of nitrate levels do you have?
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