So you got a new fish tank Newbie

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CrystalAZ said:
(we had our first flood last week - awwww!)
Now you can add running a wet/dry vacuum to your interests line. :D

By the way--saw the pics of your set-up and it is looking great Crystal.

A couple of points were made about the last post I made in this thread. One was, "what about KW to adjust pH?" A good question since I didn't indicate you should use it to raise the pH of a new tank. There is a reason behind it.

For those of you new to reefing KW , aka Kalkwasser or just Kalk, is nothing more than a saturated solution of lime, calcium hydroxide. It is made by simply adding a couple of tablespoonful of something like pickling lime to about 5 gallons of water and stirring it up. It then is allowed to settle and the supernatant is used to top off your tank to replace water last to evaporation. It raises alkalinity, pH and calcium levels in one swell swoop.

The thing about a new tank is there is little or no calcium demand and that will hold true until you add corals that utilize calcium. In most cases the calcium supplied by your salt mix and that added during water changes should suffice. If you test for calcium, and it is low, then you might consider KW to raise it along with pH. There are so many posts on RC regarding how to make and dose KW I won't get into that in this post but I did omit mentioning it as a pH-alkalinity supplement.

Point two was about actually adding the cured LR into your tank. Another good question. When you add LR there is always the problem of what to put it on. Method one is to place it directly on the bottom glass and then add the sand. Some wise person pointed out that you are paying $$$ for that LR so burying it under 4" or more of sand is kind of a waste. Method two is to place it on top of the sand. I've done this and it works pretty good but over time the rock does tend to settle into the sand, especially if you have fish that like to dig.

Recently Amanda from Michigan asked:
Originally posted by AEALOVESHERGIRLS
I have heard you guys mention base rock, what is it?

Base rock is dead rock.:D That is rock with nothing growing on it. You put baserock as the bottom layer in your tank and place the LR on top of it. You can use cheap aragonite or any rock you find pleasing. It is best to use dense rock such as slate opposed to shale as the latter tends to have more soluble compounds in the rock. Igneous (granite, basalt) rock is probably better than metamorphic (slate) or sedimentary (shale). On the other hand, I've never really heard of any problems with the choice of base rock so it may make no difference.

Another option is to cut plastic dowel or PVC pipe to a length that is just shy of the surface of the sand and place your LR on it. Avoid having it it too high above the sand as your fish may dig burrows under the rock and go into seclusion.

Landscaping is also done with base rock or shelf rock. Many people like to make shelves for latter critter placement. A small shelf can be anchored using gel type super glue. You clean an area from the two rocks you wish to join and glue them together. For larger shelves you may need more support. You can use a masonry bit to drill holes and then use superglue to anchor plastic dowel material in the two rocks thereby joining them. For a really big shelf you can use plastic bookshelf brackets. Again, drill holes in the rock and, using plastic wall anchors and nylon screws, join the shelf to the rock. Don't worry, in a few weeks the plastic will cover with coralline algae and blend in.

One thing to be cautious of--Don't get two carried away attaching rocks together. It is kind of sad to find you have a 100 lb rock sculpture that you can't lift out of your tank.:eek2:

Also be sure to support glued together pieces from the bottom when lifting them from the tank. A 10 lb hunk of rock falling against the glass is not recommended.

Don't have time today put I'll get to algae next time.
 
1, 2 , 3 , 4 - what are we rooting for?

1, 2 , 3 , 4 - what are we rooting for?

Algae! Algae!

Yay, algae!!!

I'm holding my breath waiting for info about algae!

Actually I just want to keep this post bumped up because I really like it. :D

Crystal
 
By golly it is sure easy to know one is on the Newbie Forum. Only place at RC where they give you a bump so you'll talk about algae. :D

Let's See--we have are tank full of water, sand and rock. Ammonia and nitrites are at zero.Congratulations Newbie-- you've completed the first steps in setting up your tank!!!:celeb1:

Once ammonia is steadily at zero the initial cycle is complete. That is, you have a population of nitrifying bacteria established that can oxidize ammonia to nitrite and nitrate and, in essence, de-toxify this decomposition product. This may have taken anywhere from a week to over a month depending on the type of LR and your method of curing but you have made an important milestone.

Don't get too quick to celebrate. That was only the first half of the game. For the second half you must overcome the ALGAE Blitz!

Photo originally posted by Hambone
120-small.jpg


Now in the first half of the cycle all the dead stuff on the LR decomposed and the developing bacteria hopefully feasted on it. They then converted it to carbon dioxide that then exited the tank as a gas. Carbonaceous compounds are fairly easy to remove as most bacteria live by consuming organic carbon compound. Nitrogen compounds have a more complex natural cycle and, so far, your tank has only succeeded in converting them into a more reef friendly form. Eventually your system will convert nitrate to nitrogen gas and eliminate it as well. This process usually takes awhile as the sand bed plays a crucial role. In a newly established tank conditions are usually not achieved for a couple of weeks after the initial cycle. There are many that contend that de-nitrification, the process of converting nitrate to nitrogen gas, occurs in the pores of the LR. IMO the chief method that LR provides in removing nitrate is through uptake by the coralline algae growing on the rock. Serious reduction of nitrate occurs in the sand bed in the anoxic zones. In the new tank they just haven't had time to properly form

Another thing is now happening. With the supply of decaying organic matter almost depleted many of the bacteria that helped clean things up have nothing left to eat. They in turn die and become a food source. In a well-established tank this decomposition occurs mainly in the sand bed and, indeed, helps de-nitrification and the removal of nitrogen from the tank. In a new tank this new food has nowhere to go except into the water column. Our friend Amanda saw one manifestation of this when she wrote a few days ago:

Originally posted by AEALOVESHERGIRLS
Today is day 9 of my tank. Up until now, despite the high trites, trates and ammonia, my water has been clear. But, today it's cloudy and I haven't touched it. Could it be from all the algae in there, I mean, we aren't talking a little algae. It's brown and hairy everywhere. It's driving me nuts that I can't touch it, that I have to wait for the algae to correct it'sself. Any advice would be great!

I'm not picking on Amanda. It is just that she is starting a new tank and making daily posts on her progress. They sure fit this thread. Wait till Desert Crystal gets some water in her tank.:rolleyes:

Amanda did the in-the-tank LR curing method that explains the cloudy water syndrome. Usually there is little organic material, often called Dissolved Organic Material (DOM), in the water column. That means there is little for free swimming "bugs" to eat, so their population is quite low. Following a cycle the water column contains a regular smorgasbord of stuff for bacteria to eat. And eat they do.

WarningThose under 18 (21 in some states) may want to skip the next section as it contains graphic content!!!!:eek1:

The bacteria in the water column, with plenty to eat, go on a rampage of wanton mitosis. When these little critters get plenty of food, population control goes right out the window. Seeming overnight the water takes on a milky white to gray appearance brought on by this shameless orgy . Just as the bacteria hit their peak, the protozoan's in the tank also get real randy. In full public view they conjugate and reproduce to record numbers but at the expense of the sex crazed bacteria in the tank who these protozoan's now call "dinner". Yes folks it is a sordid affair.

This bacteria bloom happens in all cycles. If you cure your LR outside the tank it may happen but you won't see it like you would in a tank where the LR is cured. The bacteria/protozoan bloom tends to clear up as fast as it appears as these free-swimming "bugs" really go to town and consume all the food PDQ. Once done, they die off only to become food for ensuing organisms.

One can speed up the removal of these bacteria and protozoans by using a polishing filter. One of the handiest items one can have in their bag of tank maintenance items is a canister filter. These fairly inexpensive filters serve in so many handy fashions. With a bacteria bloom you can use a sub-micron filter in them to remove the bacteria, usually in a matter of hours. Then you can replace the sub-micron filter with some activated carbon and remove much of the organic material left behind. With a 200 gph, hang-on canister filter costing less than $50 you really want to have one when you can afford it. When not being used on your main tank it can be used on a quarantine or hospital tank to provide circulation. The sub-micron filters even have a pore size small enough to remove the free swimming stages of parasites such as ich and velvet. A real handy item to have.

The main downside of a bacteria bloom is the little buggers use up tons of oxygen during their heyday. With fish or coral in a tank you want to get them out as fast as possible. If your tank doesn't have livestock then you can wait for it to take its natural course. You also want to check pH and alkalinity after a bacteria bloom. Because these blooms tend to be somewhat acidic in nature you may need to correct the pH using the washing soda additive I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Amanda also has brown "algae" everywhere. This may be algae but in many cases it is diatoms. This occurs shortly after or during the bacteria bloom. I've often wondered why the population of diatoms would soar in the post cycle. I came up with this theory. Much of the die-off on the LR is from encrusting sponges. A sponge uses kind of a silicate skeleton to maintain its shape. After the sponge decays some of this silicate enters the water column where diatoms, who also use silicates to form a type of shell, utilize the excess silicates to reproduce. This causes a diatom bloom stage. This brown algae phase is also usually short, lasting about 5-8 days. Like the bacteria bloom it then disappears almost as suddenly as it started

Don't pat yourself on the back too quickly. The real fun is about to start.

Just about the same time the brown algae starts to recede enters the green algae. At first is appears at the top of the tank nearest the lights but soon in covers just about all your beautiful rock and sand. In general, a tank is about 2-3 weeks old when the green algae hits its peak. How long it will remain at its peak is the hard part to predict. Usually, but not always, a tank that has LR cured in it will have much more green algae over a longer period than a tank that had the LR cured in separate containers. A tank with good lighting will normally have a greater initial growth but the bloom will be shorter in duration than a tank with low lighting.

Whatââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a person to do????

Well first offââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Âthe algae gods have not singled you out for a special punishment. Algae Happens!!! No amount of atonement, even sacrificing your first born, is going to make it go away. The best way to deal with it is to give it some time. There are, just like unwanted in-laws who visit, a few things that will shorten its stay.

First off a program of water changes will remove the nutrients the algae needs to grow. During an algae bloom 20% water changes every few days will go a long way in providing nutrient export from the tank. Secondly, get out that scrapper and harvest as much of the stuff as you can. While scrapping run that handy-dandy canister with a polishing filter to help remove algae cells. Third, use the same filter to run activated carbon to remove organic nitrogen and phosphates. Forth, if you have a refugium, add some macro algae to it to compete with the algae in your main tank. Fifth, add a variety of snails to help eat the stuff. If you plan to add hermits crabs this is the time for them too. Sixth, buy and wear a Q-ray bracelet. You can never have too few ions on your side :D.

Well gang I don't have time for more today. I'll finish up with the algae next time and talk a little about lighting. Take care.
 
Waterkeeper thanks for the great thread.
My question is I am starting to think i won't have enough room in my cabinet for all the equipment needed for a reef setup. skimmer, sump, chiller, heaters and whatever else i am forgetting.
I want a 120 gal tank it would fit perfect where my bar is at now.
The cabinet size is little over 4ft wide by 3.5ft deep by3.5ft high.
I have no other room to put the equipment in.

Thanks Lithoman
 
As always, a great thread. I've been reading your posts since I started, always great info (and never "dry").
 
lithoman said:
My question is I am starting to think i won't have enough room in my cabinet for all the equipment needed for a reef setup. skimmer, sump, chiller, heaters and whatever else i am forgetting.

I have no other room to put the equipment in.

The age old problem for those not blessed with a basement. :D

Actually those dimensions don't sound too bad. There should be room for a least a 30 gallon sump. You won't be able to put one of those 5 foot tall skimmers in it but there are plenty of shorter ones that do a fine job. A hang-on skimmer is also an option. Heaters are small and I always place some in the tank and the sump to serve as back-up if one fails.

The trick may be hiding a chiller. The ones I've seen are fairly bulky. Never having needed a chiller I am not up on current technology (what else is new :D ) so there may be some compact ones available. Anyone have a suggestion?

Dave,

Thanks. I would hate to post a "dry' thread on an aquarium site. :lol:

To those who asked, "how do I get through the cycle without all the algae?

I haven't the foggiest unless you have a "dry" tank.:rolleye1:

There really is no way that I know of to completely avoid the algae bloom. While curing you rock in separate containers, vigorous skimming, and big water changes all help they will only lessen the impact not eliminate it.

Closest I've ever come to a near a non-event with algae was when I set up the 30. I used fully cured aquacultured rock and the bed was made of all live sand. The rock and sand where shipped overnight express and placed, as soon as they arrived, in the previously set up tank.

I never really saw much in the way of free ammonia and nitrates were near zero in less than two weeks. By that time the brown algae was gone and and there was a light coating of green algae, mainly on the rock. After another week or so that too was gone and the tank fully cycled.

The drawback---The rock and sand cost close to $500 with shipping. That's a pretty good piece of change for only a 30 gallon. However, If you have the bucks it can't be topped for having a near "instant" tank.

If you don't spring for fully cured rock, the more LS you have in your bed the better off you will be. You want to get de-nitrification going as soon as you can in any tank. Removing the nitrate will hasten the decline of the algae. Nitrates only have two places to go--forming baby algae or exiting the scene as nitrogen gas.
 
Here is a better deal Mike.

For the bump I'll send you a $5.00 off coupon for an 8 oz. bottle of WaterKeeper's Magical Mystery Marine Miracle Mineral Supplement*. Fortified with minerals it is a bargain at only $19.99 (+$7.95 shipping) and handling. Every new reefer should use WaterKeeper's 5-M for a successful marine tank.

*A NOTE TO THE UNWARY FROM RC WaterKeeper hated to waste his reject water from his RO/DI unit and, as cheap as he is, came up with bottling his RO waste in 8 oz. bottles and selling it. We would like to bust him but his claim that is fortified with minerals is true. It is also fortified with every other miserable contaminant found in his tap water. His waste therefore becomes your problem.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :D
 
Sorry if we are wandering off thread, but you may have hit on a deal here as I am also semi retired. I was thinking of a 75% 25% mix of your new product and my skimmate, a prety label, and we could give special deals to all the people that ***** about server busy messages. O.K., now I'm going into hiding before the barrage starts. :strooper:
 
It could be the latest thing for all the health nuts.

"Skim Water" - full of minerals and nutrients. Also boosts your immune system (but don't tell them thats from introducing all kinds of horrible things to it).

Crystal
 
Well if your "Protein Skimmer" is truly skimming protein then the FCC can't ride you over false advertizing about it being a protein supplement.

Maybe we can this this guy to sell our products.

Billy_Mays.jpg


As seen on TV!!! WaterKeeper's 5-M supplement-now fortfied with protein. Act NOW and we'll super-size your order...

:D
 
WaterKeeper... I don't think I have received advice from you yet, but I wish I did. LFS are the devil!!! I started my tank on Oct. 6th I bought 7 Lbs of LR for a 55 gallon and 40 lbs of LS. I set the tank up and got my sand in and spent the next 4-5 hours beating up my kitchen R/O system. After all was said and done I had a 55 Gallon tank. I could not handle looking at the tank with two (small) rocks in my tank. I went and bought 18 more Lbs that night. I let it cycle for the next week without a hitch. That next weekend I happened to be going to Cali and ran into a guy on Ebay selling Marshall Island LR for 1.90 a Lb. I asked him if I could pick it up and saved a boat load in shipping and got some really cool rock. Well everything is going fine for a week and my nitrite was at .25 and the ammonia at .50. I went to the trusty LFS and they told me I could put in snails, crabs and a cleaner shrimp. All went well with that. 1 week later I went to another LFS (a much more reputable one) who said I could put a clown and some green star polyps. I bought them with my levels at 0 nitrite and .25 Ammonia. Still everything is fine. I get the clown in the tank and he is acting fine except he is just staring at himself in the side of the tankââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦. I felt bad and thought he was lonely. Now I go to the original LFS and converse with them for a while and in the end was convinced that a small regal tang and an anemone would be fine. WRONG!!! The tang disappeared 1 day later and reappeared at the bottom of my tank as a skeleton. (I assume it died and the shrimp and crabs got to it) The anemone looks to be doing fine, has found a spot that it seems comfortable in and is eating like a horse (I use a large serenge to feed it brine once a day). My faith is now lost in the LFS that sold me the anemone and tang. I am just trying at this point to save the anemone and keep the tank going on a healthy cycle. I have been through all of the stages of bacteria and algae bloom that had been described in this post. My water is clear, skimmer is skimming, there is a good amount of life growing on the rocks along with some seaweed and I have been noticing some ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œcrittersââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ in the sand bed. Do you have any suggestions as to how I should continue? I appreciate your help.

Daniel
 
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Hi Daniel,

Man that desert out there sure is fostering new reefers. It must be something in the water. :D

First things first--hold off on the livestock!!!

The snails are OK but you still have ammonia in your tank. It is probably why the tang met its maker and it still may claim your clown. If you can, I'd return the anemone. They are difficult to keep even by an expert and it's chances in a cycling tank are poor at best. It always amazes me that a LFS will sell one to somebody with a 3 week old tank.

Well now that the scolding is over :D here is a game plan. You didn't say how deep a bed you have in your tank. If the only sand you have is the 40 lbs of LS then you need a bunch more, probably about three times as much. Your goal is to get a 4" bed. You can use Southdown or other inert sand as you have a good start with the 40 lbs of LS you have.

I'd also be doing about 20% weekly water changes for the next five weeks. It appears you went through the algae cycle fairly fast. The water changes will help prevent an encore and reduce nitrate levels which may build up until you have an established DSB. If you are monitoring nitrate you can cut back on the size of the water change once the nitrate level remains fairly constant or decreases between water changes.

If the clown gets through this period, he is better off lonely than dead. A regal is not a good choice for only a 55. You want to add only smaller fish that don't require large amounts of swimming room. It will be a few more weeks before your ready to add much more so you can ask around on RC about what people have in similar sized tanks.

One last thing. If you can't return the anemone you want to feed it more than just brine. Small pieces of chopped scallops or clam are always good. Some DT is also in order. To increase the brine shrimp's nutritional value, if you hatch your own, you can feed the brine shrimp some DT too.

Raising brine shrimp and algae is always a great idea for any new tank. It is easy to do and provides homegrown food to feed your critters. I recommend that any newbie read the series by Frank Marini on the Breeders forum.
Home Grown Fish Food

Tell us how things go. We'll be pulling for you.
 
Thank you so much for your info... I don't think I can return the aneome but maybe ther is some one in my area with an established tank who would be interested in adopting it.

As for the south down sand....If I already have the live sand in... would I have to remove everthing in the tank including the LR and LS and start with the southdown?? Or could I remove the rock...and put in the south down and mix it with the LS??(I have a large rubbermaid container which I could use so I dont start the cycle again) Also I would not want the clown, shrimp, anenome and plolyps to go through a southdown storm, would they be ok in the Rubbermaid if I moved my skimmer and powerheads to it?? I could also put my light on it as it has a plexiglass cover so I could just lay it over top. GAH!!! I need help!! :( And there goes my killer aquascaping) Here is a link to the forums where I posted pics of my tank before the addtions.

My Tank
 
Ok... I took the rest of the day off so I could get started. Only problem...I can't find South Down Sand. The only stuff I could find is quick crete play sand which is sifted, washed and dried. Will this work or should I take it back?? I am waiting for reply to put this sand in. In the mean time I am removing the LR and LS in there now and relocating to the Rubbermaid for now. Wish me luck!!!
 
Lofty, Hey buddy....I got you covered! PM JHardman for the SouthDown sand. You will not find it locally, although I did hear one of the east side LFS buy some of "our" load. Do not put that Silican sand in, you will regret it. Get about three more bags of SD sand. John will charge you $12 a 50# bag. Yeah you should put your livestock in the tub for now with the skimmer and lts. PM me I'd like to get that Anemone...I have the right tank for it. When you're fully set up, I can get your a true BTA. Gee it's only 97 degrees today....gotta get a shirt on!!! Blue
 
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