SPS Browning/pale - params ok, been dosing vodka 4 months, just changed lights...

[llebcire]

I've been fighting pale or browning sps since Spring with no apparent culprit. I did just replace my lights (54w T5's) with Ati & KZ hoping that will make a difference.

Growth and polyp extension are both good. Lost 1 specimen 2 months into dosing - all else fine. Have noticed the softies, frogspawn & zoas aren't as colorful as they should be.

Things seem to have take a turn this Spring after allowing the tank to fallow from an ich breakout - tank was fish-less for 10 weeks. Didn't feed it and left the lighting the same. No other major changes recently, lights that I just replaced have been in place since last fall.

I'll see if I can get some of the questions answered:

Tank was setup March 2009
72g Bow front
20g Sump
216w T5's...now 2x ATI Blue+, 1 ATI Aquablue, 1 KZ Figi Purple - 48" 54w
ETSS Reef Devil Deluxe - produces peanut butter jar of skimmate weekly
Approx 3,900 gph turnover (sum equals 4,870 gph & I subtracted 20% for "generous" specs)

Top off 1 gallon per day lime water
Dosing vodka @ 11ml/day - 4 months in & have used 1 bottle of vodka
Feed variety of dry foods w/Zoe & mysis.

Just cut the lighting back to 8 hours per day.

Moderate bio load - 1 Purple tang (5"), 3 chromis, pair skunk clowns, pair false percs, single black clown (small) & yellow watchman goby.

SPS: yellow, green & purple millepora, green pocillipora, green slimer, green cap, red cap, idaho frape cap, superman montipora, orage & green digi, german blue digi...various zoas & a few softies, frogspawn

Temp 80-82 degrees
Mg 1,350
Ca 400
Alk 10 (used to be very low, around 5 earlier this summer)
pH 8.2 (used to be below 8)
Nitrates & phosphates are both undetectable but I have nuisance algae so 1 or both are present.

I don't know if I just need to be patient and wait for the stability (approx 45 days) and new lights (1 week) to take effect or if there's something else I should look into?

Some pics coming.

-Eric

 

[llebcire]

Red slime problem before - seems to be cleared up now. Pic from May 2010

Currently have red turf algae (looks like cotton candy)

Tank yesterday - notice how much less coralline exists?

Documentation of flow

 

[llebcire]

Unfortunately I lost a hard drive this summer with over 10,000 pics so what I have is limited....

Blue digi colony Jan 2010

Now (been repeatedly fragged by accident)

Blue digi frag in Jan 2010

Now

 

[llebcire]

Only pic of Grape Cap from Nov 2009, yellow mille as well

Now

Current yellow mille - seems fine

Green pocillopora & green slimer Nov 2009

Now

Slimer's been accidentally fragged 3 times

Purple mille (current only) been fragged heavily recently

 

[llebcire]

Also wondering if I should keep increasing the vodka? Slime cleared up and other than one lost specimen no negative side effects. From what I've read it can take 6-8 months for the full effect?

-Eric

 

[leftcoastreefer]

Your alk seems pretty high to be dosing that much vodka.

 

[seashark]

Your alk seems pretty high to be dosing that much vodka.

+1 , and also how do you test you po4 , most test kits are not acurate,below 0.05, if you chek it with hanna meter you'll get better idea, and also 11ml of vodka ,sound alot. IMO

 

[JALREEFER]

11 ml of vodka is probably the problem

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[leftcoastreefer]

After 4 mos of vodka dosing, you should be on a maintenance dosing program. I probably have a little less then half your water volume, but i dose .3ml of vodka daily and 3.0ml of bio-fuel daily

 

[llebcire]

Your alk seems pretty high to be dosing that much vodka.

Interesting.

Never read of anyone discussing a correlation but I'll research it now.

Many people keep alk around 10 & I've always read an acceptable range was 8-12dkh.

-Eric

 

[llebcire]

After 4 mos of vodka dosing, you should be on a maintenance dosing program. I probably have a little less then half your water volume, but i dose .3ml of vodka daily and 3.0ml of bio-fuel daily

Did you ever notice a difference as you were dosing?

I immediately noticed clear water then the slime gradually disappeared. I've never noticed a change in coloration so I assumed I needed to keep increasing the dosage. I've also never experienced a bacterial bloom although the increases were very gradual at fist using this chart:

I also forgot to mention I run Reef Crystals @ 1.026, using RO/DI (5 stage) @ 0-5 TDS (change filters @ 5), change 15g (approx 20%) every 3 weeks and run 1" sand in main display with 2" sand in fuge with Chaeto.

-Eric

 

[leftcoastreefer]

Did you ever notice a difference as you were dosing?

I immediately noticed clear water then the slime gradually disappeared. I've never noticed a change in coloration so I assumed I needed to keep increasing the dosage. I've also never experienced a bacterial bloom although the increases were very gradual at fist using this chart:

I also forgot to mention I run Reef Crystals @ 1.026, using RO/DI (5 stage) @ 0-5 TDS (change filters @ 5), change 15g (approx 20%) every 3 weeks and run 1" sand in main display with 2" sand in fuge with Chaeto.

-Eric

That table is from the genetics article, correct?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

That is a very good article to go by. If you follow those directions to a T, you shouldnt have any issues. You are obviously dosing the same amount of vodka as a 500g system would need. Im just curious, why you kept increasing your vodka dose. Did you not see a drop in nutrients?

What type of test kits are you using to monitor nitrate and phosphate?


As for the Dkh levels, heres is a quote from the genetics article:

"Burnt tips - Some users of organic carbon dosing have reported the tissue loss at the ends of their SPS. These "burnt tips" have recovered once the user reduced the alkalinity levels within their tank to alkalinity levels closer to natural seawater (7-8 dKH), pictured below. Unfortunately, the root cause for this is not known."

 

[llebcire]

That table is from the genetics article, correct?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

That is a very good article to go by. If you follow those directions to a T, you shouldnt have any issues. You are obviously dosing the same amount of vodka as a 500g system would need. Im just curious, why you kept increasing your vodka dose. Did you not see a drop in nutrients?

What type of test kits are you using to monitor nitrate and phosphate?


As for the Dkh levels, heres is a quote from the genetics article:

"Burnt tips - Some users of organic carbon dosing have reported the tissue loss at the ends of their SPS. These "burnt tips" have recovered once the user reduced the alkalinity levels within their tank to alkalinity levels closer to natural seawater (7-8 dKH), pictured below. Unfortunately, the root cause for this is not known."

I followed the chart for the fist 8 weeks and noticed nothing other than clear water - it took until just recently for the slime to disappear. It appears that when people get impatient with dosing there's a bacterial bloom that I never encountered.

I haven't been testing as I've read that low end tests that we buy will show zero (I have 2 or 3 diff. tests) as the nuisance algae will take nitrates & phosphates from the water and yield a false zero.

I was just reading that Quality Marine article, linked from a Rimless Reef article indicating that things may be too clean.

I may stop dosing altogether for a week and see what happens.

-Eric

 

[Alex T.]

Cut your dose in half...immediately. I'm speaking from experience here. I almost lost all my sps to vodka dosing. Many don't understand just how powerful carbon dosing is. With added bacteria competing for nutrients, you are starving your corals to death. Whatever you do, don't increase the dose. if you're seeing paling in your corals, you need to cut back or you risk a heartache.

That being said, once you've cut the dose in half, take away .5 milliliters of vodka dose every week. Once this has stabilized, you can even dose every other day or twice per week. A 24 hour cycle for vodka dosing seems an arbitrary number based on our "human" clocks. I'm not necessarily convinced our corals can relate.

 

[llebcire]

Cut your dose in half...immediately. I'm speaking from experience here. I almost lost all my sps to vodka dosing. Many don't understand just how powerful carbon dosing is. With added bacteria competing for nutrients, you are starving your corals to death. Whatever you do, don't increase the dose. if you're seeing paling in your corals, you need to cut back or you risk a heartache.

That being said, once you've cut the dose in half, take away .5 milliliters of vodka dose every week. Once this has stabilized, you can even dose every other day or twice per week. A 24 hour cycle for vodka dosing seems an arbitrary number based on our "human" clocks. I'm not necessarily convinced our corals can relate.

Thanks Alex!

What happens if I stop altogether? Do I risk a crash from starving the bacteria?

-Eric

 

[llebcire]

An update:

Beginning on the 6th I cut the vodka in half to 5.5ml...on the 13th to 4.5 & today to 3.5. My thought was to get to where I am now (3.5) and start cutting 0.5 ml / week from here but today I noticed what "appears" to be the start of red slime in the sand. I'll maintain the 3.5 for the remainder of the week and see if the slime gets worse.

As for the corals, I am starting to notice a difference in the coloration. The tank isn't near what I want but things are looking better - I'll try and get some pics soon.

I have noticed that the "shaded" corals, especially mushrooms & zoas look better than there counterparts in full light. I'm only @ 9hrs/day but I would assume it's the increased PAR in the new lamps.

Thanks!

-Eric