SPS remains bleached long-term. Solution? (pics)

[chadfarmer]

just becuase they come from a 400 watt mh doesnt mean that the light is brighter than your setup

 

[maestro]

I had the same thing happen to me when I was running zeo, purple corals were the worst affected.

How I solved it was to temporarily raise my t5's up to allow the coral to recover while also putting in alot more nutrients into the tank via feeding, I increased slowly from 1/2 cube of frozen a day to 3 cubes a day.

Another way I accidently found works great to colour up bleached sps is to introduce 1 or 2 pieces of uncured liverock into the tank.

Imo acropora dont so too well in very low nutrients, in aquaria they get there food from dissolved nutrients in the water whereas in the wild they dont need that because they capture there prey, if you offer them no live food or and yoru tank is squeaky clean then there will always look pastel/bleached

 

[jcw]

Good post! I just don't think it's as easy as saying a low nutrient system is bad or a low nutrient system is good.

It is a fact that coral reefs have lower nutrient levels than other parts of the ocean. Whether this is due to the uptake by plants and the tight recycling process you mention or whether it's just the preferred milieu that coral like to grow is not entirely clear.

Here's an article regarding nutrients and the coral reef by Borneman in Advanved Aquarist. His articles are long and wordy and sometimes technical but interesting.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/eb/index.php

Interesting debate going on. It would seem to me that there is a bit of semantics here. One side saying nutrients are high but appear low due to rate of absorption or cycling and another saying nutrients are low.

From my studying and knowledge your both right to some extent. Ultimately scientist will tell you that the nutrients on a coral reef are low relative to surrounding water. But that doesn't mean there aren't significant amounts of organic matter, trace elements, and microscopic fauna.
When hobbyist talk of ULNS the idea is to avoid the historical problem of systems building up nitrates, turpenoids, tannins, phosphates and other contaminants. It doesn't necessarily mean that we want the tank free of foods, plankton or other nutrients needed by corals. In fact, the trick is trying to get the nutrients in but to export them before they build up enough to convert to the toxins described above.
For the record my tricolor also bleached, continues to grow at the base but remains discolored. Came from a MH system and is now in a DIY LED lit tank. Unfortunately, I think the initial bleaching came from too much light. I ran the RB at 100%. Other SPS at mid level began bleaching while those lower either did not bleach or bleached less including frags of the same colony. I have since cut the lighting in half and seen some improvement in most corals. The valida is perhaps the least improved, yet still growing.

It may in fact be a combination of factors, not just one. My nitrates and phosphates are zero also. IMHO if I had not bleached the valida with too much light in the beginning, I think it would be much better pigmented today. I think they are just slow to regain their pigments.

I have seen valida look good under t5, LED, and MH. I think we need to be more careful acclimating corals to the light. Without PAR meters it is very hard to tell how much light we are providing. I believe it is much easier to color up a browned out SPS from low light than a bleached out from excess light.
For now I will keep my valida in a lower light, keep Ca, Alk mg in ideal range. Allow nitrates to go up as high as 5 if they trend that way and still keep phosphates as low as possible. I am trying to add aminos and trace elements along with occasional coral feeds. Let's keep sharing our experiences so maybe we will figure this mystery out!
Thanks folks. I'll tag along.

 

[iwishtofish]

I, like everyone, would love to get to the bottom of this. It definitely seems that it is a common problem with valida, although not exclusively.

I don't believe flow is an issue. Yes, it is random, but it is also very powerful. In my 75g, I have a Koralia 4, a Koralia Magnum 7, and a Tunze 6065.

I am ramping up feeding. I think my skimmer will remove the majority of the excess. I also think I probably light-bleached the coral initially.

Thanks again for everyones input. I am learning a lot!

 

[cediss]

Yeah, no offense intended. But everyone in this discussion has reasonable enough flow. There are many other acropora that require more flow than valida.

 

[jcw]

I, like everyone, would love to get to the bottom of this. It definitely seems that it is a common problem with valida, although not exclusively.

I don't believe flow is an issue. Yes, it is random, but it is also very powerful. In my 75g, I have a Koralia 4, a Koralia Magnum 7, and a Tunze 6065.

I am ramping up feeding. I think my skimmer will remove the majority of the excess. I also think I probably light-bleached the coral initially.

Thanks again for everyones input. I am learning a lot!

Point taken! That sounds like a ton of flow for a 75g.


Here's valida's description in liveaquaria. I don't pretend to be an expert in SPS or this coral. I hope this helps.

The growth rate of this Acropora Coral is much more rapid than most of the other corals found in an established reef aquarium. It can also be cultured and grown into a new colony from living fragments or broken pieces, if conditions are ideal. The Aquacultured Tricolor Valida Acropora Coral prefers a moderately high light level combined with a strong intermittent water current within the aquarium. For continued good health, it will require the addition of supplemental calcium, strontium, and other trace elements to the water.

Valida Tri-color Acropora Corals will thrive in a variety of lighting conditions, ranging from power compacts, VHO, T-5's up to the more intense metal halides. Alter their position in the aquarium depending on the lighting, and provide at least 5 watts per gallon using one of the lighting systems mentioned above.

The symbiotic algae zooxanthellae are hosted within its body, so it receives the majority of its nutritional requirements from photosynthesis. While it does not require additional food to maintain its health in the reef aquarium, it will feed on micro-plankton or foods designed for filter feeding invertebrates.

and

To maximize their growth rate, it is imperative to maintain a high pH, alkalinity and calcium levels, and to keep phosphate and nitrate levels as close to zero as possible. If conditions are ideal, it can also be cultured and grown into a new colony from living fragments or broken pieces.

Acropora corals receive a majority of their nutritional requirements from photosynthesis, but will benefit from the addition of various types of phyto and zooplankton.

 

[iwishtofish]

Thanks, jcw. Interesting what they say about the lighting requirements.

 

[Pallobi]

Dzhuo I agree with you a 100%

Myself as well...

 

[jcw]

I forgot to mention that I have a Fiji tricolor valida from bluezoo.

It sits 6 inches from an AI sol white sitting on a plexiglass cover turned up to 50% on white. I thought it was getting blasted with light...

It's a nice sized colony about 4+ inches across. It actually grows quickly and TOWARD the light. The side that is closest to the slightly offset AI sol has active growth and nice purple extensions. The rest looks "bleached" like yours but I think the purple is most evident when the coral is actively growing (as was mentioned).


The side that is growing is also closest to the MP40 as well.


I have been dealing with other issues so I have not addressed this growth imbalance yet, but this AM, I turned the AI sol lengthwise directly over the valida and I'll see what happens.


If it isn't flow, I'll bet that the growth has slowed down and the coral has thus lost the purple tips. Once you figure what makes this coral grow, I have a feeling the purple tips will come back. More feeding and more light would be my next try.

I can post a pic of mine if it would help.

 

[NatureNerd]

iwishtofish, how old is this reef tank? Is it well established? I didn't see this mentioned earlier in this thread. I too am surprised by how "clean" (re devoid of life the rocks look). It really looks like low nutrients to me.

 

[dixiedog]

I forgot to mention that I have a Fiji tricolor valida from bluezoo.

It sits 6 inches from an AI sol white sitting on a plexiglass cover turned up to 50% on white. I thought it was getting blasted with light...

It's a nice sized colony about 4+ inches across. It actually grows quickly and TOWARD the light. The side that is closest to the slightly offset AI sol has active growth and nice purple extensions. The rest looks "bleached" like yours but I think the purple is most evident when the coral is actively growing (as was mentioned).

Mine does the exact same thing, you can easily see it in the pic I posted above. This has always led me to wonder if maybe it wasn't "bleached" at all, since it clearly seems to crave more light, not less.

 

[iwishtofish]

I forgot to mention that I have a Fiji tricolor valida from bluezoo.

It sits 6 inches from an AI sol white sitting on a plexiglass cover turned up to 50% on white. I thought it was getting blasted with light...

It's a nice sized colony about 4+ inches across. It actually grows quickly and TOWARD the light. The side that is closest to the slightly offset AI sol has active growth and nice purple extensions. The rest looks "bleached" like yours but I think the purple is most evident when the coral is actively growing (as was mentioned).


The side that is growing is also closest to the MP40 as well.


I have been dealing with other issues so I have not addressed this growth imbalance yet, but this AM, I turned the AI sol lengthwise directly over the valida and I'll see what happens.


If it isn't flow, I'll bet that the growth has slowed down and the coral has thus lost the purple tips. Once you figure what makes this coral grow, I have a feeling the purple tips will come back. More feeding and more light would be my next try.

I can post a pic of mine if it would help.

I'd love to see a picture - thanks. My coral actually has purple pigment in only one place: the edges of the new growth around the base. I'm trying to get a true-color picture that is more current, as it has grown even more than the picture above indicates.

iwishtofish, how old is this reef tank? Is it well established? I didn't see this mentioned earlier in this thread. I too am surprised by how "clean" (re devoid of life the rocks look). It really looks like low nutrients to me.

The tank has been running for 7 months. I've been through the bacterial bloom and new tank algae stages. All has been stable for a while now. I have always put food in for the crabs and worms (and fish that succumbed to disease), and now for the CBS, as well.

Tail-end of the algae bloom:

 

[cromedogg33]

Myself as well...

I'm not saying he is incorrect in his statement. Again this goes back my term of ULNS being highly overused and not understood by most the community IMO.

While we try to achieve the numbers of the ocean, I don't think a ULNS is "starving" out a coral per say. I think we try to find the balance of how much nutrients our corals are using up vs how much we are exporting. Essentialy your "TCNS" is relatively along the exact same principle of a ULNS, it just sounds better to the "animal" people vs the "scientific" people in the hobby. I personally don't think ULNS "starves the coral irresponsibly" otherwise they wouldn't grow and flourish in our tanks.

The word "starve" is used a lot in ULNS where your "TCNS" provides the "correct amount of food", when in fact they both provide the food to help the coral grow.

 

[blakers82]

Show me someone with an actual ocean in a box and then we can talk about natural settings.

We may need to look up the p04 and n03 numbers from the ocean and talk about how we as hobbiest try to achieve those numbers. I'm not sure I would call it irresponsible either but that's my opinion as well. Again ULNS is thrown around loosely with SPS.

Here are a few numbers per Randy Holmes-Farley (2004).


Typical Surface Ocean Value:

Salinity: 1.025-1.027
Calcium: 420 ppm
Alkalinity: 2.3 meq/L or 7 dKH
Magnesium: 1280 ppm
Phosphate: 0.005 ppm
Nitrate: Variable (typically below 0.1 ppm)
pH: 8.0-8.3

 

[lolgranny]

It's been suggested to me in the past that my tank might be too clean, but I am afraid to put too much food in there because I don't have any livestock other than snails and a coral banded shrimp. I am imagining a sudden algae outbreak. I do have a skimmer way over-rated for the tank, though (Reef Octopus rated for 200g).

I have a 40g with a skimmer rated at 200g so i doubt the skimmer is any issue.

All I have tested recently are alk (8 dKH), and Ca (400ppm). I tested Mag not too long ago and it was around 1250.

I am using mostly ATI bulbs, now 7 months old. A combination of Blue+, AquaBlue, Fiji Purple, and GE daylight, I believe. The fixture has been around 8" over the tank, and the coral is mid-level in the tank. I did just raise the fixture a bit.
My bet is you bleached it and your light is putting out crazy par so its staying bleached. Have you thought about getting a par meter?

Also, how long has the tank been up? I feed my tank maybe once a day. Otherwise every other day (have 6fish) I have a bare bottom, use carbon / gfo / big skimmer / a fuge. The walls of the tank have to be cleaned once every 5 days which others have told me i have a low nutrient system. When i first got my tri color i had it very dark and it bleached on me( my thoughts were because the tank wasnt aged long enought) I havent changed a thing and its one of my most vibrant corals.

My bet is your tank hasn't aged long enough and your rushing the process expecting results like the guys with tanks up 5+ years. EDIT... i see 7 months. Thats nuts!

Here was mine when i 1st got it

then...

later...

might be hard for you to see, but behind the hawkins / green slimer there she is. Fully colored up. I dont have any super recent ones other then this, but im sure you get the point.

Why not add some fish to the tank? Something easy? Chromis? Clowns?...ect?

Also, did you acclimate your corals to the lights? No matter where they come from ALWAYS acclimate imo. No need to stress the corals more then you need to.

 

[iwishtofish]

Dave, thanks so much for your reply! Your tank configuration seems very similar to mine, at least with regard to filtration, and your coral had neary identical coloration to mine when I first got it.

I did not acclimate the coral properly to my lighting. My error in judgment arose as a result of my belief that the store tank had much higher par than my tank. Lesson learned!

Would you recommend that I just raise my lights and see what happens? I'm currently planning the introduction of a Kole tang.

 

[lolgranny]

Dave, thanks so much for your reply! Your tank configuration seems very similar to mine, at least with regard to filtration, and your coral had neary identical coloration to mine when I first got it.

I did not acclimate the coral properly to my lighting. My error in judgment arose as a result of my belief that the store tank had much higher par than my tank. Lesson learned!

Would you recommend that I just raise my lights and see what happens? I'm currently planning the introduction of a Kole tang.

Personally i would just leave it alone now. The damage is done already, it will get its coloration back in the days to come. Ive done some reading about bleached corals and the "best" way to get them to color back up. Good flow seemed to be one of the best best. By no means do i say take it and put it in a tsunami, but higher flow for it will help ime. ALWAYS...ALWAYS.. aclimate the corals. I always put mine on a rack for 2 weeks slowly raising it up and on week 3 i cut it from the plug / epoxy it to the rock. I would also get some fish in there, it will help the tank out alot.

As for feeding i was feeding my corals roti / oyster feast but stopped as i didnt see much difference over the months. Now i just feed spectrum pellets / formula 1&2 flake and once a week some frozen rods. When i feed i feed 2 pinches of either of the food. Nothing crazy. Im sure i could feed more and i prob would 2x's a day but i work 85hrs a week so thats near impossible.

 

[lolgranny]

I did not acclimate the coral properly to my lighting. My error in judgment arose as a result of my belief that the store tank had much higher par than my tank. Lesson learned!

Its happened to more people then just you, just be happy the thing is still alive and look at it as a learning experience. :bounce2:

 

[acroholicreefer]

Your problem is that you don't have enough nutrients in the systems (zooplankton). The cause of your problem is excessive carbon and gfo use. Cut these back and keep your magnesium, calcium, and alkalinity in the correct range. You should see signs of improvement in several weeks to months.

There is not really too much to debate here IMO.

 

[lolgranny]

Im curious, did you start with dry rock or LR?