Sulfur DeNitrators

[skydancer]

Once I decided that a Sulfur De-nitrifier or De-nitrator was a device that I needed to install in my reef it was easy to decide on Midwest Aquatic's unit for the following reasons:
1) It was highly recommended to me by a couple of gents from the Middle Tennessee Reef Society (as you can see from this thread)
2) Rick, from Midwest Aquatic has been very helpful in supporting this product. I didn't feel I would get the "personal attention" buying the Korallin unit from Marine Depot
3) the two units look and work very similar if not identical, so the fact that I bought the XL unit for a lot less than the smallest Korallin unit, I thought it was and still think it is a very good value.
4) The Midwest unit came in with "activated" bacteria so you don't have to wait 6 weeks for the bacteria to mature. (So they claim - but that's yet to be determined). Also, it came with most of the fittings and tubing assembled. If you look at the Korallin unit, the customer has to put all the fittings together. THIS IS VERY HIGH ON MY LIST!
5) The Midwest unit is made in the USA.

I only put it into commission one week ago and I don't have comments on it's performance or effectiveness yet. I will post my results as I get them in the next few weeks.

 

[bblair]

Interesting thread. Thanks for the details, its got me thinking.

I'm upgrading next weekend from a 90 Gal to a 220. I'm replacing my Korillin Calcium reactor with a Deltec. Anyway, I looked at the Midwest Aquatic and the Korillin de-nitrafiers and they look exactly like my Korillin Calcium reactor. In fact the Korillin says you can modify it into a Calcium reactor. I also have a second stage unit from PMC. I might just hang on to the reactor and convert it to a de-nitrate unit - pending on how your test results look in a few weeks. Please continue to post the results. Don't shoot the tank!

 

[skydancer]

Day 10: Feb/13/06
Can't believe my eyes. The XL Sulfur de-nitrifier is running at approximately 2-3 drops per minute and the nitrates are ZERO. So, now it should be a matter of time before the tank nitrates start going down...

 

[jnb]

congratulations! what tank nitrate are you starting with?
keep us posted - I still have yet to test mine - still waiting for test kit - patiently NOT

what test kit do you use?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6742542#post6742542 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer
Day 10: Feb/13/06
Can't believe my eyes. The XL Sulfur de-nitrifier is running at approximately 2-3 drops per minute and the nitrates are ZERO. So, now it should be a matter of time before the tank nitrates start going down...

 

[skydancer]

Tank Nitrates: I'm starting with somewhere between 25 to 50 nitrates BUT CLOSER TO 50 as I have recorder on an earlier post about day 1 conditions. Still the same level of tank nitrates but I think in just the last 1-2 days the effluent nitrates went down to zero. BTW, I increased the drip rate today to 4-5 drops per second. I 'll test the effluent tomorrow to make sure the nitrates coming out are still zero.

 

[skydancer]

Sorry, test kit is Salifert for Nitrites and Nitrates.
I like their consistency.

 

[jnb]

thats what I ordered - interested in knowing about your test aft increasing drips

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6743493#post6743493 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer
Sorry, test kit is Salifert for Nitrites and Nitrates.
I like their consistency.

 

[logman17]

3 week update

3 week update

So the Denitrifier has been in use for about 3 weeks.

Yesterday, tuesday, I did a full test of the tank:

Ph - 8.2-8.3
Calcuim- 450 on average (lowered the drip rate on my reactor)
Salinity - 1.024
Alkalinity - 200 ppm
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 20 ppm

And tested the effluent:
NO2 = undectable
NO3 = 0

So after 3 weeks the reading show that the unit is doing what it's supposed to do.

I will also have to add that I can SEE it working. By that, I mean that 90% of my hair algae is gone. Also, my tank glass is staying cleaner with less wiping. I was cleaning the glass 2x a week, this past week I've cleaned it once and it doesn't need it again yet. The corals look healthier, although that may me seeing things. I'm assuming that the hair algae being 90% gone and the glass staying cleaner is a result of the lower nitrates in the tank.

I have noticed an increase in my calcium by about 30ppm and my alk has risen about 10-20ppm. To counteract this, I lowered the drip rate on my ca reactor by about 6-7 drips per minute. It seems to be stable now. I believe this is because of the Calcium Carbonate media in the denitrifier adding to the volume already being produced by my Ca reactor.

I will post again when something changes. I expect my overall tank nitrates to slowly get closer to 0 in the coming weeks.

 

[jnb]

Re: 3 week update

Re: 3 week update

yippe

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6747151#post6747151 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by logman17
So the Denitrifier has been in use for about 3 weeks.

Yesterday, tuesday, I did a full test of the tank:

Ph - 8.2-8.3
Calcuim- 450 on average (lowered the drip rate on my reactor)
Salinity - 1.024
Alkalinity - 200 ppm
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - 20 ppm

And tested the effluent:
NO2 = undectable
NO3 = 0

So after 3 weeks the reading show that the unit is doing what it's supposed to do.

I will also have to add that I can SEE it working. By that, I mean that 90% of my hair algae is gone. Also, my tank glass is staying cleaner with less wiping. I was cleaning the glass 2x a week, this past week I've cleaned it once and it doesn't need it again yet. The corals look healthier, although that may me seeing things. I'm assuming that the hair algae being 90% gone and the glass staying cleaner is a result of the lower nitrates in the tank.

I have noticed an increase in my calcium by about 30ppm and my alk has risen about 10-20ppm. To counteract this, I lowered the drip rate on my ca reactor by about 6-7 drips per minute. It seems to be stable now. I believe this is because of the Calcium Carbonate media in the denitrifier adding to the volume already being produced by my Ca reactor.

I will post again when something changes. I expect my overall tank nitrates to slowly get closer to 0 in the coming weeks.

 

[skydancer]

Logan great news. That's what I'm hoping to see in my tank also in a few weeks. After all, it was yours and Nick's recommendation that made me decide to go with the Midwest Sulfur de-nitrifier. Thank you guys.

Logan 2 quick questions:
1) On the hair algae first. I have a ton of it too. I thought this kind of algae feeds on Phosphates and not Nitrates. How can the reduction of Nitrates improve the hair algae?

2) I dose with the ESV b-ionic 2 part. I have noticed that ever since I started the Sulfur De-nitrifier (14 days ago) my PH drops at night to 7.8 and sometimes even below. I started adding Reef buffer (Seachem) to offset the acidic water coming out of the de-nitrifier. I 'm trying to keep the PH above 8.0 at night and to 8.3 during the day. What do you think about that? Or should I increase the dosing of the 2 part additive. Right now I'm dosing 30 ml per day on a 240 gal (approx) tank. The label recommends to start with 60ml per day but I wanted to start slow. I started the 2-part dosing 1 month ago.
My current Calcium is 490 to 500, and alkalinity at 7.5 dkh.
Many thanks Alex

 

[coralreefing]

Skydancer
Are you aerating the output to bring up the PH? This is snipped from the Midwest web page
"Because the water leaving the DeNITRIFIER will be devoid of oxygen, it is important to AERATE IT THOROUGHLY! Under no circumstances should the outflow of the DeNITRIFIER be directed back into the tank without aerating it."

 

[jnb]

Hair Algae likes nitrates a whole bunch

the directions say the ph may drop a little - you did put the calcium medium in didn't you - its suppose to adjust the ph

you need to check mg as well to make everything work (ph, alk, etc) to make sure it is over lets say 1300

if it falls below 8.0 it is nagging - just check mg, and after you get it right tweak your two part using the calculator.

time to add kalk thru auto top off - I can help you spend money...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6747522#post6747522 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer
Logan great news. That's what I'm hoping to see in my tank also in a few weeks. After all, it was yours and Nick's recommendation that made me decide to go with the Midwest Sulfur de-nitrifier. Thank you guys.

Logan 2 quick questions:
1) On the hair algae first. I have a ton of it too. I thought this kind of algae feeds on Phosphates and not Nitrates. How can the reduction of Nitrates improve the hair algae?

2) I dose with the ESV b-ionic 2 part. I have noticed that ever since I started the Sulfur De-nitrifier (14 days ago) my PH drops at night to 7.8 and sometimes even below. I started adding Reef buffer (Seachem) to offset the acidic water coming out of the de-nitrifier. I 'm trying to keep the PH above 8.0 at night and to 8.3 during the day. What do you think about that? Or should I increase the dosing of the 2 part additive. Right now I'm dosing 30 ml per day on a 240 gal (approx) tank. The label recommends to start with 60ml per day but I wanted to start slow. I started the 2-part dosing 1 month ago.
My current Calcium is 490 to 500, and alkalinity at 7.5 dkh.
Many thanks Alex

 

[logman17]

Skydancer-
Echo what jnb said about the hair algae.
It definately feeds off nitrates as well as phosphates. In my case my phosphates always measure 0/undectable. This is probably because I have the hair algae sucking up the Phosphates. I can tell you that I've never showed any PO4 in this tank since Day 1 (back in May or close), but the hair algae was never there until recently when my nitrates started rising. So I had to believe just by the timing of the hair algae that was more nitrate-related than anything. Also, since the addition of the denitrifier and the lowering of the NO3, the hair algae has slowly been going away, so I drew my conclusion from that also.

As far as your pH / dosing I can't help you there. I've never dosed any 2-part or anything else. My pH stays between 8.1-8.3 even with my Ca reactor and the denitrifier. I do aerate the outputs of both the Denitrifier and my Calcium reactor through my skimmer, so that probably helps keep my pH up. I also don't have a ton of SPS or major calcium-suckers in the tank yet, so my CO2 is on the low side for the Ca reactor. I do not drip Kalk (yet).

HTH

 

[skydancer]

hello gents,
With regards to aeration...
I have a pretty standard sump where the drain box has two filter pads and below it about 4 gal of bioballs. The tank return runs thru the pads and thru the bioballs.
I let the de-nitrifier output drip on top of the pads and the nitrate-free water runs thru the bioballs and down to the sump. From there it goes thru a sponge and into a compartment that either gets pumped to the skimmer or returns to the show tank.
Is that enough aeration, or should I feed the effluent line into the cylindrical "column" of the skimmer thru the air inlet opening?

With regards to your comments about the hair line algae... I'm very encouraged... Maybe finally I will get rid off that ugly green scene. Interestingly but not surprisingly though the heaviest concentration of hair algae is on the top of the tank closest to the lights. I have a 36 inch tall tank and very little algae is on the bottom of the tank comparatively speaking.

 

[skydancer]

Sorry forgot to comment about the PH.
Indeed the Ph dropped a "little"... I was always running a ph of 7.9 to 8.15 (night to day) and when I started the de-nitrifier the ph range went to 7.78 to 8.1. Which is to be expected... correct?

Then I started adding reef buffer to raise it. Yesterday the ph only dropped down to 8.02 and the high was 8.24. I guess the aeration must be OK.

 

[jnb]

that's enough air and I don't know exactly how to say this - I'll just get to the point - If you research your sump setup and have everyone vote - I believe the conclusion may be that you are running a nitrate factory.

Maybe I am wrong, but at this point in reefkeeping I believe everyone has gotten away from filter pads and bioballs.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6754650#post6754650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer
hello gents,
With regards to aeration...
I have a pretty standard sump where the drain box has two filter pads and below it about 4 gal of bioballs. The tank return runs thru the pads and thru the bioballs.
I let the de-nitrifier output drip on top of the pads and the nitrate-free water runs thru the bioballs and down to the sump. From there it goes thru a sponge and into a compartment that either gets pumped to the skimmer or returns to the show tank.
Is that enough aeration, or should I feed the effluent line into the cylindrical "column" of the skimmer thru the air inlet opening?

With regards to your comments about the hair line algae... I'm very encouraged... Maybe finally I will get rid off that ugly green scene. Interestingly but not surprisingly though the heaviest concentration of hair algae is on the top of the tank closest to the lights. I have a 36 inch tall tank and very little algae is on the bottom of the tank comparatively speaking.

 

[skydancer]

Jnb, your point is well taken. In all my research about the sump set up I also came to the conclusion that I'm running a nitrate factory.
I also have a very heavy fish load in my 250G tank.
Powder blue tang - large
Yellow tang - XL
Regal tang-XL
Kole tang-L
Coperband butterfly - L
Magnificent foxface - L
Dwaf lion fish -M
4 gobies (3M, 1L)
1 dragonet,
2 damsels
3 large clown fish

Did I forget someone? So the reason for the bioballs is so that I can quickly convert the waste to nitrates. Then I'm hoping the de-nitrifier will take the nitrates out.

Is there any merit to my reasoning? Feel free to shoot holes..

 

[jnb]

that is a nice load - you meant nitrites down further - and IMO I think you are better eliminating the pads and the bio balls as long as you have enough rock to convert ammonia to nitirites - if you decide to do so - remove some balls every couple of days till they are gone - and at least cleans the pads and letting the sulfur hardware effluent to the pads/bio balls - is sort of not right - just let the effluent drain somewhere near the skimmer intake

based on all my study - this is what I recommend

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6754862#post6754862 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skydancer
Jnb, your point is well taken. In all my research about the sump set up I also came to the conclusion that I'm running a nitrate factory.
I also have a very heavy fish load in my 250G tank.
Powder blue tang - large
Yellow tang - XL
Regal tang-XL
Kole tang-L
Coperband butterfly - L
Magnificent foxface - L
Dwaf lion fish -M
4 gobies (3M, 1L)
1 dragonet,
2 damsels
3 large clown fish

Did I forget someone? So the reason for the bioballs is so that I can quickly convert the waste to nitrates. Then I'm hoping the de-nitrifier will take the nitrates out.

Is there any merit to my reasoning? Feel free to shoot holes..

 

[skydancer]

I have 600 lbs of live rock in the tank.

I thought the live rock converts the ammonia to nitrites, and...
the bioballs (via aeration - drain tank water running thru them) will convert nitrites to nitrates and...
the Sulfur De-nitrifier will convert Nitrates to Nitrogen gas and out of the water column...

Do I have it all wrong?

 

[skydancer]

Also, I understand the reasoning being against bioballs. Bioballs get dirty and become their own nitrate factory.

But, why are you against a regularly cleaned filter pad? How else can I "trap" debris that comes down from the tank?
Don't some people use a sock in their sump?