Sulfur DeNITRIFIER DIY!!!

[IBASSFSH]

More test results

More test results

I too was beginning to get frustrated. So yesterday I turned the flow up to 2-3 drops per second. It looks like I have nitrite now coming out of the reactor:

The color is not the baby blue it was on previous tests. Its funny because I just turned the flow up on 2-9-08 morning time. 24 hours later I have nitrite. I had read in another thread that one guys cycled in less than three days. Here is a photo of previous test also.

I think it was working as posted earlier, but I had the flow so low it crashed it. Now that I have turned the water up some its doing well again.

 

[melev]

Here's what I did last night, after some direction from a friend that has a 'real' denitrifier:

Turned off the system, unscrewed the housing with the sulfur, and squeezed a sponge (that floats in my refugium) to add bacteria (and some detritus) to the sulfur. He felt the system was running too clean, and needed seeding.

He advised I leave it overnight, and then today turn it back on leaving it fully open for the next week.

So that is what I did and am waiting to see what happens next.

I like seeing ibassfsh's progress though, as it gives us hope.

 

[TulsaReefer]

What I'm afraid is possible here is that many of the DIY designs are quite different than the commercial units, so while the methods for startup and break in that are used for the commercial units are a good start, it's also possible that the DIY units may end up needing a slightly different optimal startup sequence.

One difference I see is the lack of a recirculating pump, which means that the flow through the unit and past the sulfur is quite different. The commercial units (Midwest Aquatics and Korallin) both use a couple hundred gallon per hour recirculation pump. This is quite different than a slow flow of a few drops per second. This may inhibit the flow of nutrients to the bacteria, as the food (nitrate in this case) becomes more scarce in areas of the sulfur that are further from the inflow, since the bacteria close to the in-flow will have already consumed the nutrients.

The other thing that is different is this, with the commercial units they have both sulfur media and calcium in the same chamber, which with the recirculation will tend to buffer the drop in pH caused by the H+ ions from the nitrate reduction. Without this buffering, the pH in the sulfur chamber may drop very low. This is only a guess, but it may be getting low enough to inhibit bacterial growth. Think of it as bacteria not thriving as they are basically living in their own waste products. It would take some study to see what pH the bacteria can survive and thrive in.

All these are guesses in the end, but all based on the rather dramatic differences in design between the units. I know that a few folks have had some difficulty with commercial units as well, so it may not matter one way or the other. But it also may be that this particular DIY design is a bit less tolerant and more difficult to get working.

 

[2Sweet]

I have followed this thread for several months now and have taken and listened to everyones advice. I have set up the same system with the three canisters and utilizing the media cartidges in all three canisiters, a 600 MJ pump with a flow restrictor, 10ft of hose on the front end and after three weeks of patience I now have 0 nitrates coming out of the effluent. I also had been running at approximately 1 drop per second. I understand that in the previous examples some have successfully utilized the cannisters without the media cartridge but my logic said it could only help. I think this is an important compenent and should be utilized for maximum efficiency. I guess the point I am trying to make is that I have followed the thread and the instructions and it does work.

 

[IBASSFSH]

2Sweet that would be my next step using the media cartridges inside the main cannisters. I am now starting to see nitrite though so, maybe its starting to do what its supposed to do.
Does anyone know how long I should see nitrites before they disappear? Not exactly sure how it works with this reactor.

 

[pete620]

I set up my system on 2/8, and today (three days later) the effluent is at 50 ppm nitrate (tank 40ppm-previous owner overfed) and nitrite is at .25.
The set up is the same as Hormigaquatica (I bought the canisters from the LFS he works at) with no DI cartridges, and about three feet of tubing before the first chamber. The drip rate is about 1 drop per second, or slightly faster. On a side note, a piece of carbon clogged the effluent line so it ran a bit slower the first day and a half until I found the clog.

 

[jwaltman]

For the record I have increased flow 2-3 drops / second on Saturday. I will check the tank Thursday for the results. I am running media cartridges in all three canisters and have 30 ft of tubing prior to first canister. Approaching 4 weeks / no noticeable declination in NO3 in effluent... hopfully increasing flow rate will be the trick!

 

[jwaltman]

I have noticed that some of the sulfur in the cartridges is starting to turn black. Is it supposed to do that or am I starting hydrogen sulfide factory?

Thanks

 

[IBASSFSH]

I have not seemed to make any progress in the cycling either. Test resluts look like the above pics I posted on 2/10/08. I went back to the 1st picture on this link to see what could be different. The only thing I see is that the suphur beads go almost to the top of the cannister. Mine only goes about half way up. I wonder if in creates bacteria better that way?

Jwaltman while I am not an expert on this, I don't think the media should be turning black. I know mine has not started to anyway.

 

[sanababit]

jwaltman. if it turns black is most probably hydrogen sulfide, you have to options open the outflow more and send it to a bucket or clean/replace media, you will have to cycle system again, good luck

sana

 

[Madman133]

ok I've rad through most of this thread now and it seems like for some people these work miracles and other it doesnt work so well. I was thinking of trying this anyways just to see what happens. I was just thinking of taking a phosban reactor and filling it about 2/3 full of lsm(cairbseas's sulfur) or some other sulfur and then filling the other 1/3 with ARM. Would this be better since with the no-no3 stuff the two are mixed together but dont you want to replace the ARM pretty often? So if I did it with the 2 seprated would that be easier to change?(Idont have a phosban reactor so I dont know how you change the media inside it, let me me if my plan is backwards or something). Also my tank is only 55 gallons so would I even need that much sulfur? WHat if I did 1/3 sulfur, 1/3 arm and 1/3 carbon? Also how often should the ARM be replaced? Every couple of monthes or something? If so that would make it easy to just change it out at the same time as the carbon.

 

[sanababit]

madman, because your tank is 55 gal i recommend filling it just with no-no3 media, dont use arm or carbon inside the reactor, you can run carbon separate if you want, anyways, just fill up the reactor with the media, hook up an mj pump to it, put a ball valve at the exit of reactor and set it to about a drop a second, watch it for a week to see if you have nitrite and nitrate coming out, send the outflow to a bucket too so no media goes to your tank, after a week you should see 0 nitrate and nitrite coming out, after you are comfortable with the results send the outflow of reactgor back to your tank or sump, good luck

sana

 

[Madman133]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11863936#post11863936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sanababit
madman, because your tank is 55 gal i recommend filling it just with no-no3 media, dont use arm or carbon inside the reactor, you can run carbon separate if you want, anyways, just fill up the reactor with the media, hook up an mj pump to it, put a ball valve at the exit of reactor and set it to about a drop a second, watch it for a week to see if you have nitrite and nitrate coming out, send the outflow to a bucket too so no media goes to your tank, after a week you should see 0 nitrate and nitrite coming out, after you are comfortable with the results send the outflow of reactgor back to your tank or sump, good luck

sana

OK thanks...wasnt sure how much sulfur I needed to run. Wouldnt it be easier to run the sulfur and aragonite serperate though. That way I could replace the aragonite without having to replace the sulfur and having to cycle it again. Cause from what Ive read the aragonite runs out much faster than the sulfur will is that correct or is the no-no3 stuff different?

Thanks for your help,
Taylor

 

[Madman133]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11863936#post11863936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sanababit
madman, because your tank is 55 gal i recommend filling it just with no-no3 media, dont use arm or carbon inside the reactor, you can run carbon separate if you want, anyways, just fill up the reactor with the media, hook up an mj pump to it, put a ball valve at the exit of reactor and set it to about a drop a second, watch it for a week to see if you have nitrite and nitrate coming out, send the outflow to a bucket too so no media goes to your tank, after a week you should see 0 nitrate and nitrite coming out, after you are comfortable with the results send the outflow of reactgor back to your tank or sump, good luck

sana

OK thanks...wasnt sure how much sulfur I needed to run. Wouldnt it be easier to run the sulfur and aragonite serperate though. That way I could replace the aragonite without having to replace the sulfur and having to cycle it again. Cause from what Ive read the aragonite runs out much faster than the sulfur will is that correct or is the no-no3 stuff different?

Thanks for your help,
Taylor

 

[Steve 926]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11863936#post11863936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sanababit
madman, because your tank is 55 gal i recommend filling it just with no-no3 media, dont use arm or carbon inside the reactor, you can run carbon separate if you want, anyways, just fill up the reactor with the media, hook up an mj pump to it, put a ball valve at the exit of reactor and set it to about a drop a second, watch it for a week to see if you have nitrite and nitrate coming out, send the outflow to a bucket too so no media goes to your tank, after a week you should see 0 nitrate and nitrite coming out, after you are comfortable with the results send the outflow of reactgor back to your tank or sump, good luck

sana

Hello Sana

I also would like to set up this system on a 50 gal.
The reactor I have is a small fluidized filter, basically a bottom to top flow reactor, same as a phos reactor. What I do not understand is when the supply ( MJ or such) is running full force, & the return is shut down to drip or two per second, how does this effect the back pressure in the reactor. I would think that the media in the reactor would be motionless due to no real flow through it, & the MJ would be straining no matter what the gph is ???

Please explain, I really would like to know how this works

Thanks for a reply

Steve 926

:smokin:

 

[IBASSFSH]

You don't want a lot of flow through the reactor. It has to have a long dwell time for the anaerobic bacteria to consume the nitrate. You may be able to use a maxi-jet 900 for flow. You also don't want the media flowing around like a fluidized sand filter per say. You could always put a flow valve after the pump, but in front of the reactor to minimize pressure in the reactor. Just my opinion.

 

[Steve 926]

Thanks for the reply Ibass

I would be supplying the reactor from a manifold setup I have, so I could really adjust it down pretty low, & then fine tune it with a JG valve on the return. My concern is the Hydrogen Sulfide pockets that may form in the media with a drip flow rate, as was posted previously by jwaltman.

I would think that if the media is moving even slightly in the reactor, there would be less chance of an H/ Sulfide pocket. the dwell time would be the same due to the effluent's restricted exit flow at 1~2 drip per second. I notice that the commercial units use a re circulating pump & was wondering if this is the reason for it.

Sound Crazy ????

Thanks for a reply

Steve 926

:smokin:

 

[Madman133]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11866804#post11866804 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steve 926
Thanks for the reply Ibass

I would be supplying the reactor from a manifold setup I have, so I could really adjust it down pretty low, & then fine tune it with a JG valve on the return. My concern is the Hydrogen Sulfide pockets that may form in the media with a drip flow rate, as was posted previously by jwaltman.

I would think that if the media is moving even slightly in the reactor, there would be less chance of an H/ Sulfide pocket. the dwell time would be the same due to the effluent's restricted exit flow at 1~2 drip per second. I notice that the commercial units use a re circulating pump & was wondering if this is the reason for it.

Sound Crazy ????

Thanks for a reply

Steve 926

:smokin:

From what I've read if you have it setup right with the right ammount of flow hydrogen sulfide should not be able to build up. If you are still worried about it though you can run it through som carbon before it goes into your tank.

 

[IBASSFSH]

I think that the recirc pumps are just to ensure the water goes through the media so the anaerobic bacteria has a chance to remove as much nitrate as possible. I don't think it actually moves the media very much if at all. People with the Midwest or Korallin models may be able to give more input on this. H/sulphide pockets may be from once colonized anaerobic bacteria populations not getting enough food and dying off(hence the recirc pump). People with the ro/di system(like myself) may be able to shake the cannisters slightly to get more movement to seemingly dead spots?

 

[Steve 926]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11866847#post11866847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Madman133
From what I've read if you have it setup right with the right ammount of flow hydrogen sulfide should not be able to build up. If you are still worried about it though you can run it through som carbon before it goes into your tank.

The set up is pretty simple. other than the amount of media that is being used, the flow rate remains the same @1~2 p/sec.
The mixed results with the same set up by several people, lead me to belive that there is a varied water pressure through the media causing the individual mixed results.

What flow/gph is being used by all, and what are your results ?

Running carbon to eliminate the H/S in the effluent is an option, but I would rather not have to resort to that.

Steve 926

:smokin: