Sulfur DeNITRIFIER DIY!!!

[bgcook]

i am using the media from marine depot.

CaribSea L.S.M. Live Sulfur Media 1 Gallon

i also bought the same company's argonite. i am probably going to rinse the argonite when i get back home. i don't think with my flow rate the argonite will clear up without help.

as far as the flow rate, i don't know what would be better. it seems that you want the media to be oxygen deprived (anaerobic), i just don't see how you can accomplish that with the refillable units which runs water through the sulfur. i thought Hormigaquatica's original design was using ro canisters so the water ran overtop of the sulfur. i would guess with this design the anaerobic portion would be deeper in the media which the flow probably wouldn't matter as much (almost acting like a deep sand bed with food). with the refillable di units we are pushing water through the media. the faster it goes the faster the oxygen rich water gets to the media. it seems with a fast flow rate you would need a larger volume of media. any thoughts on this would be great. i barely no what i am doing.

also with the sulfur media which is seeded with the nitrate reducing bacteria - this doesn't make sense to me either. the nitrate reducing bacteria are anaerobic, any exposure to oxygen would likely kill them. i don't think the anaerobic bacteria get seeding until the enviroment is anaerobic and it is almost a darwin's thing where only the fit survive. even with that said, i media i bought is supposedly seeded as well. i just figure it was false advertising.

what do you think Hormigaquatica?? also thanks for your help with the pm's.

 

[dkuster]

I think the flow-through canisters are a better way to go, as long as the flow is _slow_. But you're right, the original design doesn't use canisters.

Actually, it might be worth mixing the approaches. The aragonite and carbon should definitely be in canisters, but maybe the sulfur shouldn't (?).

Regarding the nitrate-eating bacteria innoculated sulfur -- I'm pretty sure the bacteria are in 'spore' or 'cyst' form. Basically, they are alive but dormant. They only become active when the right conditions are present (anaerobic) yet they are alive (and protected) when the conditions are bad (aerobic in their case).

 

[bgcook]

that makes sense. i hope those they decide to kick in soon or i might just have a nitrate producing reactor.

so what is the general thought regarding flow? what is recommended on the store bought nitrate sulfur reactors? perhaps i'll go to midwest website and see if i can find out.

thanks dkuster

 

[oct2274]

this is a cool thread, but it seriously needs to be moved to the DIY forums where people will see it. it is going to get lost here in the reef discussion forums. can the admins move this to the DIY forums so it gets the attention it deserves please

 

[dkuster]

Hi Greg,

I think you're looking for the highest flow rate that still produces an anaerobic condition inside the sulfer chamber.

Too high a flow rate will render part of the sulfur canister inactive because it will not be anaerobic.

Too low a flow rate will not maximize the nitrate reducing potential of your sulfur denitrator.

It's a balancing act.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11421718#post11421718 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bgcook
that makes sense. i hope those they decide to kick in soon or i might just have a nitrate producing reactor.

so what is the general thought regarding flow? what is recommended on the store bought nitrate sulfur reactors? perhaps i'll go to midwest website and see if i can find out.

thanks dkuster

 

[melev]

I've been following this thread for some time now, and am about to try it out myself. I'm letting you guys work out the kinks so it'll be easier for my own project.

 

[dkuster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11422294#post11422294 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I've been following this thread for some time now, and am about to try it out myself. I'm letting you guys work out the kinks so it'll be easier for my own project.

Glad to help out. ;-)

One thing I like about this 3-stage design is the carbon chamber. You don't see that on the commercial units, and it should help eliminate any 'rotten egg' smell.

One thing I'm anxious to test for is calcium in the efluent once the reactor is seeded and functioning. I've read several claims that a sulfur denitrator does not add any significant calcium and a calcium reactor is still required.

This doesn't make sense to me. If the pH of the water entering the aragonite chamber and the flow rates through it are similar, then I would think a sulfer denitrator would add as much calcium to the water as a CO2-driven calcium reactor.

 

[bgcook]

glad to hear people are interested in this thread. i will post my new values tomorrow night once i get back home. the unit will be up for about 2 weeks with a slow rate. curious to see if it works.

dkuster - i plan on increasing the flow rate once i either get rotten eggs or 0 nitrates. i'm glad you are doing the opposite that way we can see which seeds sooner. i looked on the midwest reactor website at their product instructions - it seems they go a slow rate of about 60 drops per minute. it does seem to me though that with a slow rate if you are not careful you may introduce HS and possibly harm the tank. the faster rate initially may be safer.

if this thread gets moved will they let us know?? i would hate for it to disappear on me.

 

[melev]

No matter where the thread is, if you are subscribed you'll get notification. I wouldn't have noticed it had it been in the DIY forum, so in this case I'm gald it was in Reef Discussion.

I think I'm going to order what I need to build one tonight. I have the sulfer media, carbon and ARM.

 

[Hormigaquatica]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11420081#post11420081 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bgcook

as far as the flow rate, i don't know what would be better. it seems that you want the media to be oxygen deprived (anaerobic), i just don't see how you can accomplish that with the refillable units which runs water through the sulfur. i thought Hormigaquatica's original design was using ro canisters so the water ran overtop of the sulfur. i would guess with this design the anaerobic portion would be deeper in the media which the flow probably wouldn't matter as much (almost acting like a deep sand bed with food). with the refillable di units we are pushing water through the media. the faster it goes the faster the oxygen rich water gets to the media. it seems with a fast flow rate you would need a larger volume of media.

The way Im looking at it, youre basically trying to get the water to move slowly enough that the first 'layers' of bacteria in the media are removing most of the oxygen, allowing for hypoxic conditions as the water moves through the chamber. So in some sense, yes, its the same kind of logic as using a deep sand bed in that youre going to have a few different layers of microbes- some aerobic, and some anaerobic. The sulfur comes into play in that its another 'food source' to help fuel the growth of anaerobic bacteria.

That said, you mentioned the idea of more sulfur being beneficial as opposed to less. I do agree with you on that one- if you increase the volume of sulfur the water is moving over, there will be more media under anaerobic conditions, which should make it more efficient at removing nitrates. That might allow you to move a bit more water through it, rather than relying on a slow flow rate to 'drive out' the oxygen. Maybe someone is willing to try adding a 2nd sulfur canister on theirs? Ive not tried it myself...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11420081#post11420081 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dkuster

I think you're looking for the highest flow rate that still produces an anaerobic condition inside the sulfer chamber.

Too high a flow rate will render part of the sulfur canister inactive because it will not be anaerobic.

Too low a flow rate will not maximize the nitrate reducing potential of your sulfur denitrator.

It's a balancing act.

I think youve hit it right on the head. Thats my thinking on the whole thing too.

Ive only done a handful of these machines, so Im really glad to see the interest in them. Hope Ive not overlooked anything that crashes your tanks If you can come up with variations on these things, or improvements, Id love to hear more of them too.

 

[melev]

So based on these recent comments, I think the first chamber should hold the sulfur without using a housing, but to use the media housing (like for DI resin) for ARM and Carbon. Sound good?

 

[bradleyj]

A friend of mine that owns an LFS here added a Korallin biodenitrator s1502 to his 280 gallon tank 2 weeks ago. At that time his nitrate tested at 50mg/L. Now after 2 weeks his nitrate is testing at 20mg/L . This just amazes me to see this in just 2 weeks and he has quite a few fish, around 25 in there.
Needless to say, I'm in the same situation with my tank and I added one tonight to my system. I'll keep everyone informed on how it does. I did a 30g w/c yesterday and my nitrates were real close to 50mg/L after the water change. So we will see how it tests out in 10 days.

 

[Hormigaquatica]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11430419#post11430419 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
So based on these recent comments, I think the first chamber should hold the sulfur without using a housing, but to use the media housing (like for DI resin) for ARM and Carbon. Sound good?

Go for it- the main reasoning for using the housing was to prevent sulfur media from clogging the lines or from mixing in with the other 2 canisters. If youre careful about how you dial down the flow, I dont see any reason you couldnt use the sulfur in just the RO housing. If that turns out to be more effective, then those who have put together units With cartridges have an easy solution- just dump the granules out into the housing.

 

[dkuster]

Ya know, another idea might be to add 25 or 50 feet of 1/4" semi-rigid tubing (cheap and available at lowe's) between the powerhead and the sulfur canister.

Essentially you'd be putting a 'pseudo-coil-denitrator' before the sulfur denitrator. But instead of removing nitrates, in this case the purpose would be to try and make sure the water is oxygen deprived before it enters the sulfur canister.

I think I'll try this, and I'll also keep the sulfur in the DI canister. That way the oxygen deprived water would be forced through the sulfur chamber and the entire column of sulfur would be populated with nitrate-eating anaerobic bacteria.

 

[melev]

I stuff I ordered last night won't be here until the 2nd, so I'll just have to wait and watch this thread in the meantime.

 

[JNye]

dkuster,
i have a coil denitrator i built for my 150 and it works great, if you are going to add all that coil then just throw a bunch of bio balls in your housings and call it a day, no need for all the other media? anyways i have been following along and think maybe you could add a 4th housing first, with crushed coral or bio balls to consume all the oxygen, u just have to direct the flow down so it has to run thru the media, can you add a pipe in the RO housings to direct the water down and then back up?
i've been wanting to do this anyways to try to build a couple cheap and easy reactors for carbon and phosban. good luck.

 

[Hormigaquatica]

dkuster-

Ive thought about trying that myself, or going one step beyond that and filling a long coil of tube with sulfur media- best of both worlds. I think its way overkill- but in the end, isnt that what DIY projects are all about? LOL

Id love to see it if you do actually put a coil in line with your reactor though. It would be interesting to know the nitrate levels in the tank, versus those coming out the end of the coil, versus those at the end of the whole denitrator.

 

[bgcook]

didn't have alot of time to make a post. just got back in town. got to get to the wife.

tested nitrates. about two weeks running.

effluent - 0
tank nitrates - 15 (started at 30, was at 25 on the 16th) also on the 16th was when my effluent was >100. slowed rate to 30/min at that time.

my plan now is to slowly increase the rate of the drip week by week.

take care

 

[melev]

That sounds great Greg. I can't wait to build mine now.

 

[Hormigaquatica]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11435992#post11435992 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bgcook
didn't have alot of time to make a post. just got back in town. got to get to the wife.

tested nitrates. about two weeks running.

effluent - 0
tank nitrates - 15 (started at 30, was at 25 on the 16th) also on the 16th was when my effluent was >100. slowed rate to 30/min at that time.

my plan now is to slowly increase the rate of the drip week by week.

take care

Excellent! Glad to hear it kicked in.