Sump Plans..

[Reefer2727]

I am confused.

Back to the drains. I was under the impression that the Durso style pipe is really only for tanks drilled in the bottom. These set ups tend to be louder because of water falling further?? My holes will be drilled higher up on the back wall.


If I had a 6x6x6 box in a corner, I didn't think this design would be needed. It just seems like three drains is a little much for my 75 gallon. I understand that one would be for emergency.

It seems as though most predrilled tanks I have seen have one overflow box. Ideally, a box in each corner would be nice...but expensive too.

It seems like as soon as I settle on a design I keep second guessing it. Now I am leaning to 3 holes and 2 boxes. Very expensive hobby!

Anyone else have drilling drain hole advice? Where and how many?

Help!

 

[THE ROOK]

Durso's are not any louder with a bottom drilled. In your case the durso would just be outside the tank instead of in the box as mine is.

No need for two boxes, IMO, on a 75 or even two drains. It's just overkill. But we really like backups in this hobby. So if you'll sleep better then two boxes, two drains & two returns would be ok.

What does your aquarium guy want to do?

You'll ask six people this question & get six different answers. Just the nature of this hobby.

Drilling a couple of holes will be the cheapest part of the hobby. Wait till it's up & running. Then the real sickness, I mean spending begins.

 

[Imzadi]

Very Very expensive hobby... and if you try to economize, you end up replacing what you economized on... lol

I like the drilled back, ala BeanAnimal method. Thats how mine is, and 'in theory' I love it. I say in theory, cuz I have still not fired this pig up yet...

if I could find the thread I would link it....

 

[cardiffgiant]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14683666#post14683666 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imzadi
Very Very expensive hobby... and if you try to economize, you end up replacing what you economized on... lol

I like the drilled back, ala BeanAnimal method. Thats how mine is, and 'in theory' I love it. I say in theory, cuz I have still not fired this pig up yet...

if I could find the thread I would link it....

I'm on my 3rd week of running this design and I love it.

 

[uncleof6]

Link to the beginning of Bean's thread. I bumped the continuation to the front page.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1310585&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Regards,

Jim

 

[Reefer2727]

I like the Bean Animal design too. It's so true about asking 6 people and getting 6 different answers as far as drain plans go.

I am not looking to cheap out at all. Just looking for a good, functional set up. If I have 2 drains do I need 2 returns?

I wasn't planning on drilling for returns at all. I figured hard piping over the back of the tank would be fine.


Is the Bean Animal set up possible with more than one overflow box? The boxes that I am looking at are 6x6x6. I would have one drain hole in each corner. Now for the Bean design could one run with open and the other cracked?? Or does this set up all need the drain holes to be in the same overflow box?

I assume the emergency drain can be put anywhere as it will just be an inverted elbow piped to the sump.

Maybe I need to find a bigger box. I just wanted it to be easy and have it all done at the place in town that will be drilling. But from what I understand they don't have the longer boxes. (Similiar to the coast to coast).

They figured I would be good with one overflow box in the corner. 2 holes, one for drain and the other emergency. Perhaps I should get a bigger box and take it to them.

Any more advice would be great!

 

[Reefer2727]

Imzadi,

I noticed you are from Toronto. I am just north of Toronto. Where would a good place for me be to pick up a good overflow box or other supplies?

 

[THE ROOK]

glassholes.com - boxes & kits w/ drill bits.

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14685165#post14685165 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
I like the Bean Animal design too. It's so true about asking 6 people and getting 6 different answers as far as drain plans go.

I am not looking to cheap out at all. Just looking for a good, functional set up. If I have 2 drains do I need 2 returns?

I wasn't planning on drilling for returns at all. I figured hard piping over the back of the tank would be fine.


Is the Bean Animal set up possible with more than one overflow box? The boxes that I am looking at are 6x6x6. I would have one drain hole in each corner. Now for the Bean design could one run with open and the other cracked?? Or does this set up all need the drain holes to be in the same overflow box?

I assume the emergency drain can be put anywhere as it will just be an inverted elbow piped to the sump.

Maybe I need to find a bigger box. I just wanted it to be easy and have it all done at the place in town that will be drilling. But from what I understand they don't have the longer boxes. (Similiar to the coast to coast).

They figured I would be good with one overflow box in the corner. 2 holes, one for drain and the other emergency. Perhaps I should get a bigger box and take it to them.

Any more advice would be great!

The idea with a cost to cost is surface skimming. It is very convenient, for running multiple drains. The idea with multiple drains is safety redundancy. You can run a tank with one. two or three or however many you want. You don't need an equal number of returns, and plumbing the return over the top of the tank is fine. Running multiple drains in different boxes, sets you up for some tuning, (matching) problems. Dursos make noise more often than not. Full siphons are silent, and flow a great deal of water. What i am seeing as a consensus right here: use a longer overflow box, (dont need to be coast to coast,) punch three holes in the back, and run beans design.
as designed. Read Bean's thread. There is a lot of information to absorb, but it will clear many things up.

Regards,

Jim

 

[Reefer2727]

Thanks Jim,

I have read Beans design. I just have to find a box that will take three holes. Around how long a box should I be looking for? How close can holes be drilled? I probably need a 12" box or so?

 

[Reefer2727]

Also, with Bean's design....do you need serious flow with it?

 

[uncleof6]

I actually drew this up to make sure. Since bean's design was for a 75 gal. you can set this up "identical" to his. Using 1" bulkheads, and using 1.75" (45mm) holes through the back. Horizontal spacing of holes: 3" on center. Which will give 2.25" between holes, more than adequate (you want 1 - 1.5 times diameter between holes.) Horizontal centerline would be 4.25" down from the inside lip of the trim. The bottom of your box (inside) 6" down from the inside lip of the trim. Top of the overflow (without teeth) would be 1" down from the inside lip of the trim. Front to back in the box would be 4" (inside.) Using 1" or 1.25" street ells inside, adding room on the ends to turn the ells minimum box size would be (assuming .25" thick material) 12.5" x 4.5" x 5.25" (outside dimensions). My horizontal spacing could be a little short, I don't have 1.25" street ells here to measure) But I think you'll get the idea. Centered on the back would be ideal, however with a center brace on the top, this would block access to work inside it, so it would have to be placed off center. (Which is where a coast to coast comes in handy.) Mount the box like the glass-holes.com boxes are mounted.

You are not going to be using a Dart for return, I assume, so you are not going to need 1.5" external plumbing, you can probably get away with 1" assuming your flow to be around 400gph. Run your pump wide open, throttle your drain back till your main drain goes to full siphon, with a little flow in the open channel and you are good to go.

Bean specifically states, that the design can be scaled up or down to suit your needs.

HTH,

Jim

 

[Imzadi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14685198#post14685198 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
Imzadi,

I noticed you are from Toronto. I am just north of Toronto. Where would a good place for me be to pick up a good overflow box or other supplies?

The US.


lol, I kid, but I have not really had any luck finding ANYTHING hardware related. I mean ANYTHING. I am finding the prices on the 3 or 4 skimmers that the LFS are carrying are way too high, and not keeping up with the current trends. There might be something in toronto proper... but I really don't like the idea of driving a couple hours, into the heart of THAT city to save 15 dollars on a 3 year old skimmer design. lol

The livestock is universal (within reason) but for the meat and 'tatoes of the hardware, I am finding the online market is way better. There are others here from Toronto, maybe if they see this, and know of a place, they will share it...

But I mean, I have gone as far as into Scarborough in search of WeldOn #16 Acrylic cement, and it is just not available...

 

[Imzadi]

and to further that...

I have gathered more knowledge from the folks here... WAY MORE... than the blank expressions on the kids at the LFS. I am sure some of the large shops have knowledgable staff... but so far, I get my info here, and walk in there, and get a 'Wha?' from them. Recently I asked about a NeedleWheel pump for my Skimmer... and I got a 'What's a needlewheel'... then got the next guy... their 'Salty' guy... and he said, "Yea, we don't have any. You can get them online. But they don't really work. We have a couple of new skimmers here, you are better off just buying one.' So, online, ordered the pump, WITH all the accessories for under a hundred... and he wanted me to buy a $549 skimmer. Sigh.

Maybe the market is stronger in the states. I can't imagine. But I see now the Big Al's chain is going to be carrying reptiles. To me that spells out that they can't support themselves being a specialty store, so they divide their focus to cater to more people... and don't do either one right in the end. The LFS here just closed, for exactly that reason. Well, one of many. Many many... actually.

lol

 

[Reefer2727]

Thanks for the detail Jim...I need it.

Imzadi, so funny you say that about the LFS's. I was in a Big Als today and told them about the Bean Animal set up and they gave me the Wha?? They really aren't helpful. The odd guy can help but most are clueless. I was told today that for my 75 I should have at least 2000 gph. Seems a little heavy to me. I figured I was ok anywhere between 400-800. He says that if you have more flow you dont need all the powerhead action in the tank.

Anyway, hard to tell who to trust. I find these forums to be the best info out there. I just wish all this equipment was more accessible.

I celled the place that will be drilling for me and I am going to go with an 18" long box and 3 holes in it. I think I will sleep better at night with the bean design.

 

[Fun $ Pit]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14685165#post14685165 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
I like the Bean Animal design too. It's so true about asking 6 people and getting 6 different answers as far as drain plans go.

Any more advice would be great!

Do what works for you.

 

[Imzadi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14691367#post14691367 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
Thanks for the detail Jim...I need it.

Imzadi, so funny you say that about the LFS's. I was in a Big Als today and told them about the Bean Animal set up and they gave me the Wha?? They really aren't helpful. The odd guy can help but most are clueless. I was told today that for my 75 I should have at least 2000 gph. Seems a little heavy to me. I figured I was ok anywhere between 400-800. He says that if you have more flow you dont need all the powerhead action in the tank.

Anyway, hard to tell who to trust. I find these forums to be the best info out there. I just wish all this equipment was more accessible.

I celled the place that will be drilling for me and I am going to go with an 18" long box and 3 holes in it. I think I will sleep better at night with the bean design.

Wow... that is the wildest thing I have heard to date. 2000 gph? So he was suggesting that ALL of your water circulation in the tank be handled by your overflow? And to send 2000gph through your sump of your 75g? That is probably the most insane method on record! lol. I mean, yea, the CONCEPT is perfect. But that is sooo impractical, and you would need.... WOW... 5 or 6 drains to achieve that... and that would be SOOOO noisy. These forum ARE the best source... because THESE guys have done it, and ARE doing it, and are willing to pass the experience on to everyone. Not motivated by sales, and not armed with 'knowledge' that he heard third hand, and has little to no practicle knowledge. I really cant say enough about the confidence I have in these guys. I mean, I trust most things that are said here because it is a, 'OMG, I tried that, and it SOOO didn't work, beacuse of THIS'... and the kid at the lps would say... as a matter of factly... "My boss told me that you will probably need to buy a new one, and a really big one."

Anyway, back on track. 3 holes, I think you will be pleased... and more importantly... sleep well. I have two, and I am a little nervous. I might have an idea... but, I am still working it out in my head... I might just make a few calls, and see if I can get someone to punch me a third...

It's a pain in the *** hobby... but man, I think it is sooo worth it!

 

[Reefer2727]

So true,

I have learned more on these threads in the last few months than I ever have.

I am glad I am finally settled on a design. Now to tackle the plumbing of it. Should be fun.

Do you guys recommend splitting the return? I will be piping over the back of the tank. Is it worth the extra hassle and piping to have a return in each corner of the tank rather than one?

Also, I think I will be diverting some of this return water to my fuge. Does that matter because it will take away flow from the return?

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14692176#post14692176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imzadi
Wow... that is the wildest thing I have heard to date. 2000 gph? So he was suggesting that ALL of your water circulation in the tank be handled by your overflow? And to send 2000gph through your sump of your 75g? That is probably the most insane method on record! lol. I mean, yea, the CONCEPT is perfect. But that is sooo impractical, and you would need.... WOW... 5 or 6 drains to achieve that... and that would be SOOOO noisy. These forum ARE the best source... because THESE guys have done it, and ARE doing it, and are willing to pass the experience on to everyone. Not motivated by sales, and not armed with 'knowledge' that he heard third hand, and has little to no practicle knowledge. I really cant say enough about the confidence I have in these guys. I mean, I trust most things that are said here because it is a, 'OMG, I tried that, and it SOOO didn't work, beacuse of THIS'... and the kid at the lps would say... as a matter of factly... "My boss told me that you will probably need to buy a new one, and a really big one."

Anyway, back on track. 3 holes, I think you will be pleased... and more importantly... sleep well. I have two, and I am a little nervous. I might have an idea... but, I am still working it out in my head... I might just make a few calls, and see if I can get someone to punch me a third...

It's a pain in the *** hobby... but man, I think it is sooo worth it!

Not entirely true Izmadi. 1 -2" drain will handle will handle a dart ( I use Dart, because that is what I have, plus two spares) wide open.
1 -1.5" drain will also. (talking full siphons here) , so in reality, you only need three: Siphon, Open channel, emergency. 2000 Gph, through a sump, is not unheard of, mine has run at least that, with out problems. I don't know for sure what BeanAnimal is running through his sump, but I am certain he can do 1500+. You might not have to run at that, but it is nice to know you can-- and not just to brag about it. In my early days I had an 80 gal fish only (still wasn't convinced on the whole live rock and coral thing,) and got some odiferous emanations from the tank. I.E. hydrogen sulfide gas. The tank was going gone anoxic. I grabbed what was a "big pump" (LG TE-5MD-HC, plumbed it in quick, and jumped my flow up to around 900 - 1000 gal and hour. Within an hour or so, the HS gas was gone, and only lost one fish. (miraculous) The "over flow" brought the dissolved oxygen back up rather quickly. Still have that pump, a pic in my gallery with it sitting under a check valve....................:rollface:

Reefer2727, you will be happy with your three holes and drains.


regards,

Jim

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14693187#post14693187 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
So true,

I have learned more on these threads in the last few months than I ever have.

I am glad I am finally settled on a design. Now to tackle the plumbing of it. Should be fun.

Do you guys recommend splitting the return? I will be piping over the back of the tank. Is it worth the extra hassle and piping to have a return in each corner of the tank rather than one?

Also, I think I will be diverting some of this return water to my fuge. Does that matter because it will take away flow from the return?

I would only see a problem if you are running a minimal pump, ie just enough to flow around 400gph. I tend to over pump everything, (have no idea why I do that) so that never becomes an issue. Splitting your returns at the tank, rarely causes a problem, unless you size the pipe too small (a common mistake as 2-1"s do not equal a 2")