Sump Plans..

[Reefer2727]

Wondering what height I should make my baffles for my sump. The main tank is a 75 gallon and I have a 25 gallon sump I am putting together.

The dimensions of the sump tank are 30 (L) x 12(W) x 16(H). My plans are to keep it pretty simple. I want three areas. A drain area with filter sock which will house my protein skimmer. A middle area which will be a fuge at some point down the road, and a return area.

Obviously I want to have enough room in the sump for power outage and to handle the water from the pipes.

If the tank is 16" tall. How high should the baffles be?

Do my 3 areas make sense?

Any comments or suggestions?

 

[uncleof6]

Re: Sump Plans..

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14670550#post14670550 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
Wondering what height I should make my baffles for my sump. The main tank is a 75 gallon and I have a 25 gallon sump I am putting together.

The dimensions of the sump tank are 30 (L) x 12(W) x 16(H). My plans are to keep it pretty simple. I want three areas. A drain area with filter sock which will house my protein skimmer. A middle area which will be a fuge at some point down the road, and a return area.

Obviously I want to have enough room in the sump for power outage and to handle the water from the pipes.

If the tank is 16" tall. How high should the baffles be?

Do my 3 areas make sense?

Any comments or suggestions?

That would depend on how deep you want your algae filter("fuge") to be. if you want your fuge to be 12" water depth, your skimmer section would have to be at least that.... a bit high for that height sump--if you consider running at ~half full to be ideal. Though I prefer the "fuge" and return sections reversed, having the fuge in the middle eliminates the debate on whether to feed it from the drain line or the return line. I recognize this question though......

HTH,

Jim

 

[widmer]

Lets not all be too hasty to hop on the baffles bandwagon. Because who needs baffles when you can have a bucket?

Yes that's a gravity-fed, air-driven skimmer made out of PVC and a pop bottle which drains into my RDSB/chaeto bucket.

This takes place in a standard 10 gallon tank for scale.

 

[Reefer2727]

Thanks for the reply Jim,

There is quite a debate regarding the fuge and from where to supply it with.

What are the pros and cons? It just seems a little easier to have one chamber flow to the next. I don't mind the middle return but I dont see many benefits. I guess it depends how you want to plumb it also.

I just want to keep mine simple and functional. Not to mention I may not even bother with a fuge but wanted a good size sump for volume. Where would you put the bubble trap in my design?

Between the skimmer and fuge or between the fuge and return?

Thanks for your help

 

[jb61264]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14670770#post14670770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by widmer
Lets not all be too hasty to hop on the baffles bandwagon. Because who needs baffles when you can have a bucket?

Yes that's a gravity-fed, air-driven skimmer made out of PVC and a pop bottle which drains into my RDSB/chaeto bucket.

This takes place in a standard 10 gallon tank for scale.

I love that!...so...all of that sits in an aquarium? what size?...so the overflow from the skimmer flows into the bucket with your DSB and chaeto...that just overflows into the aquarium and is pumped back into your DT?

 

[THE ROOK]

I have the return in the middle. This allows each section to have it's own height as the skimmer requires much less depth than a fuge.

My sump for reference;

*skimmer - 10" depth
*return - 9" depth (via ato)
*refuge - 14" depth

Simple & Effective.

 

[Reefer2727]

Thanks Rook,

That is for a 40 gallon sump? What would good heights be for my 25 gallon sump? Baffle heights I mean. What is the standard water to open space ratio in a sump be? About 50% capacity?

Also, I want to add a auto top off. I have enough room in my sump for up to a 35 gallon. Would I be better off just baffling one side and dedicating that to fresh top up RO water? Pump from there to my return?

It may make more sense than going with a smaller sump to make room for a bucket or jug or something to hold my RO supply for top up. Would look much cleaner also.

ANy thoughts?

 

[widmer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14673311#post14673311 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jb61264
I love that!...so...all of that sits in an aquarium? what size?...so the overflow from the skimmer flows into the bucket with your DSB and chaeto...that just overflows into the aquarium and is pumped back into your DT?

You got it. It sits in a standard $10, ten gallon aquarium. The bucket is a 2 gallon, $5 plastic bucket from a local brewing shop. The skimmer was made for ~$3 in PVC parts. All of the bubbles dissipate and burst before the water flows over the sides of the bucket into the tank. The pump is a 300 gph $20 maxi-jet powerhead off to the right (not seen in picture) which way-outperforms my quiet-one 1200.

Who says you can't have a great sump system for under $50 all together?

 

[THE ROOK]

If you don't have a place next to the stand for another reservoir or cabinet then I would try to use the 25 if you own it & keep the auto top off separate. If the baffles were to leak at all your salinity would drop & that's not good. Ideally you'll need about 12-15 gallons to get thru a week & I'm not sure that will fit in the stand.

Back to the sump itself. What skimmer & how deep does it like to run?

 

[jasoncw]

One thing you should not overlook is the amount of reserve you will need in the sump if the pump turns off. The most conservative method assumes 2" of the tank will drain down, but it will likely be less in most cases. If you assume 2" of the tank water will drain (approx. 7.5g on a 75g tank plus the amount of water in the return/drain lines), then you would need at least 5" of the tank you mention above left unused, or you could have a flood.

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14673189#post14673189 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
Thanks for the reply Jim,

There is quite a debate regarding the fuge and from where to supply it with.

What are the pros and cons? It just seems a little easier to have one chamber flow to the next. I don't mind the middle return but I dont see many benefits. I guess it depends how you want to plumb it also.

I just want to keep mine simple and functional. Not to mention I may not even bother with a fuge but wanted a good size sump for volume. Where would you put the bubble trap in my design?

Between the skimmer and fuge or between the fuge and return?

Thanks for your help

Nothing wrong with the way you want to set up your sump, ie skim, fuge, return. Bubble trap between skim and fuge. But like pointed out above, The height of the skimmer section, (or depth you want your fuge to be) are too tightly linked. (and if you are unsure about running a "fuge" you may also consider leaving that baffle out. Return in the center has it's own problems, especially if you plan on an external return pump. The solution, though not really complicated, adding one more baffle, is not necessarily a "simple sump" If all sections are "independent" you can come closer to running the sump ~half empty. (BTW, I am a pessimistic optimist.)

Couple of things on feeding the "fuge". Adding a new twist to this ragged subject. The skimmer does not take out anything that the common usage of a "fuge" ie macro algae, sand maybe some rock, needs. So it would seem that the "cleanest" water should hit the fuge--feed from the return. Drains are finicky creatures too. Especially some of the "new" designs. Adding t's to your drains, just complicates the tuning (along with other build a better mouse trap mods) Notice, I have not gotten in to the "sock" thing, I just don't have the energy for that one anymore.....

 

[Reefer2727]

Ok. Thanks for the replies. Perhaps having a separate area designated for RO top up water in a baffled area in the sump is not the greatest idea. The fact that the baffle could leak and the capacity of the sump itself are great points. I will try to find a good size canister or container to sit beside the sump in my stand.

As for my skimmer, I am using an Aqua Medic Turboflotor Multi Sl. This skimmer can be used as either a hang on or in a sump. So, as far as a level at which it likes to run at, I really don't think it matters. I guess as long as the pump is submerged it will run ok. Is it better to have more or less water in the skimmer section? I could go up to 11 or 12" at the most for the skimmer section.

I understand now how the fuge and skimmer sections are tightly linked as far as level goes if I have one feeding to the other. I have no problems with having my return in the middle. I will be putting in all the baffles and that is not a concern. I just want a good running system.

The main reason I wanted to avoid the fuge part for now is that am not sure if I want to get into having another light underneath. Sounds like it may be a better idea to go with the middle return so each area in the sump can be any level.

Another consideration I have, I am going to have 2 holes drilled on the back wall of my 75. One will act as my drain and the other hole will serve as a backup or emergency. I will just use this with an inverted elbow up near the tank rim and this will be there simply to avoid flooding over the top of the tank. So essentially I will be running with one drain. Now I would divert some of this water to the fuge area? Or does some return water go there too? Keep in mind my fuge would be really simple. Just some algae and sand. Nothing too sophisticated.

Suggestions or advice?

 

[uncleof6]

feed the "fuge" from a t in the return line, better than having dirty water feed it. (if return in the middle) stuff will settle out in the "fuge' so the less stuff going in, the better. I would reconsider your drain design. (ala beananimal)-- why have the flood not contained at all?

Regards,

Jim

 

[THE ROOK]

Great site for sump research & plenty other good info

This is basically my sump;

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html

 

[Reefer2727]

I like that sump design Rook. He has the fuge being fed from the drain line. 25% I think. Now Jim had mentioned that it is better to feed the fuge clean water. Makes sense. This means you would feed the skimmer section 100% and then T the return line? I guess taking some of this flow away from the main tank wouldn't matter with good powerheads.

About my drain set up. I have done some much research and reading it is crazy. I feel like I am no further ahead and confident on a design.

I am having the holes drilled soon. Now the bottom of the tank is tempered so that is not an option. I figure I could plum the return back without needing a hole drilled. As I am paying per hole the less the better. I figured that I could put a hole in each upper corner. I figure I only need one overflow box. The place that is drilling for me is going to set that up too. I think the boxes are 6x6x6. I would rather just have one...for cost and for less 'equipment' in the tank. Now I wanted to have a disaster proof set up. After reading quite a bit I have figured out that there really isn't one. I just wanted a safety net. Anyway, I figured that I would have the second hole drilled and just have it there in case my other drain plugged. I would have it there simply to stop the tank from overflowing. A simple elbow inverted and plumbed straight down to the sump. Seems like not many have supported this design. Perhaps I am missing something fundamental.

So, one drain hole at around 2". I am going to run the tank at around 400 - 500 gph. Is this sufficient? More importantly what do you think about my drain system.

Some advice would be great. Thanks

 

[Reefer2727]

Another quick question...does the water coming out of the protein skimmer go right into the return area (middle)? Or does it put water into the same area (Intake area) and then flows over the baffle? Essentially, will my skimmer output fall into zone 1 or 2? I am trying to figure out how close it needs to be to the bafffle.

Thanks again

 

[cardiffgiant]

IMO, You'll want the skimmer effluent to drain into the skimmer chamber to give any micro bubbles more opportunity to escape.

 

[THE ROOK]

My skimmer drains back into the same section. My skimmer output is near the baffles & the drain from the display is right next to the skimmer pump. This way the clean water exits quickly & the bubble trap clears up any micro bubbles.

My 75 is a factory drilled tank. I only have one overflow box with only one 1" drain. I have never had a problem. If you went with a 1 1/2" drain, there isn't much chance of flooding if things are setup properly. Intake screen is a must & an overflow cover or screen is ideal also.

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14681564#post14681564 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
I like that sump design Rook. He has the fuge being fed from the drain line. 25% I think. Now Jim had mentioned that it is better to feed the fuge clean water. Makes sense. This means you would feed the skimmer section 100% and then T the return line? I guess taking some of this flow away from the main tank wouldn't matter with good powerheads.

About my drain set up. I have done some much research and reading it is crazy. I feel like I am no further ahead and confident on a design.

I am having the holes drilled soon. Now the bottom of the tank is tempered so that is not an option. I figure I could plum the return back without needing a hole drilled. As I am paying per hole the less the better. I figured that I could put a hole in each upper corner. I figure I only need one overflow box. The place that is drilling for me is going to set that up too. I think the boxes are 6x6x6. I would rather just have one...for cost and for less 'equipment' in the tank. Now I wanted to have a disaster proof set up. After reading quite a bit I have figured out that there really isn't one. I just wanted a safety net. Anyway, I figured that I would have the second hole drilled and just have it there in case my other drain plugged. I would have it there simply to stop the tank from overflowing. A simple elbow inverted and plumbed straight down to the sump. Seems like not many have supported this design. Perhaps I am missing something fundamental.

So, one drain hole at around 2". I am going to run the tank at around 400 - 500 gph. Is this sufficient? More importantly what do you think about my drain system.

Some advice would be great. Thanks

I misunderstood your emergency design. (Not hard when I am tired) You may be 2/3 of the way to bean's design. Which is basically one drain running at full siphon, one open (durso style) w/ air vent, and the third with the upturned elbow for the last straw. Stuffing all of that into a 6 x 6 box ain't gunna happen. Personally, I don't think that a box that small is going to efficiently skim the surface of that tank. (Even if the linear inches do add up). Though running at 400 -500 gph isn't going to keep up with bean's design either. Though you are not getting a lot of support for it, it is more important that you feel comfortable with it. If your 2" main plugs up, your "emergency will turn into a full siphon, rather quickly, as long as the output is not deep in your sump. So would work as planned. Myself, I would use the t's, and three drains because that is the way the system is designed, and size the overflow accordingly. If you are planning on the main being a full siphon, you are going to have to throttle it back, because it is going to drain more than your pumping in. For just two drains, i would run the main as a durso type.

Return form the sump only needs to be 3-5 times your total volume of water, while total "circulation" should be up around 15 -20 times your volume. so return is just a small portion.

 

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14681602#post14681602 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefer2727
Another quick question...does the water coming out of the protein skimmer go right into the return area (middle)? Or does it put water into the same area (Intake area) and then flows over the baffle? Essentially, will my skimmer output fall into zone 1 or 2? I am trying to figure out how close it needs to be to the bafffle.

Thanks again

You would want your skimmer output as far away from your return pump as possible. IE output into the skimmer section, with the output pointed away from the bubble trap, and opposite side of the return pump. Follow Melev's "design criteria" and you won't have any problems

Regards,

Jim