Surge Tanks on large systems?

[newtank]

OK ramping up the big tank small budget thread and researching surge tanks for random flow. Getting a little scared of hearing stories that surges too high weakening tank integrity, causing the worst kind of leak:sad1: Also how do you determine the proper flow to keep from flushing your sump? I was thinking of two seperate 20g surges at about a 4ft head hitting a 265 DT with twin 30g sumps. tanks in advance for any feedback!

 

[goat585]

I have a 29 gallon surge tank divided into dual surges on my 240 cube 4'x4x2' I have a 120 gallon tank for a sump. The water does not fluctuate two much in my sump. It is divided into multiple chambers. I think you would need a minimum of a 75 gallon tank for a sump depending if your skimmer is in sump or not and what return pump you are using. The big thing to consider is how high the water level in the sump will be without the surges then make room for the surge water and then an extra room incase of a power outage.

The height of the surge is important for how deep the exit of the surge return is in the display. The diameter of the pipe controls how fast the water empties into the display. A friend of mine has a similar size tank and is using two 20 gallon surges and the sump is around 100 gallons.

I hope this helps

 

[sbleile]

Do you keep you water level lower, or does the surge just speed up the overflow when it fires?

 

[goat585]

Do you keep you water level lower, or does the surge just speed up the overflow when it fires?

I keep it a little bit lower about 2" below the Eurobracing. This is due to the grate to the overflow box not having large enough slots. Eventually I would like to modify or get a new grate for my tank so it will handle the flow better. If both surges fire at the same time the water level rises to the Eurobracing. The drains in the overflow box handle the flow with no problems.

 

[sbleile]

Thanks, that's information is very helpful.

I am setting up a 335 gallon tank, and I'm planning to use two surge tanks also.

 

[serpentman]

Personally, I would only consider a surge device in an acrylic tank. IMO, very large glass displays are still relatively new to the market so its hard to determine the effects over the life of the tank.

 

[goat585]

Personally, I would only consider a surge device in an acrylic tank. IMO, very large glass displays are still relatively new to the market so its hard to determine the effects over the life of the tank.

I have heard this as well. I do know people who were using 2" discharges on glass tanks and got seem leaks. I would stay with 1.5" or below and keep to 20 gallon surges max unless you have a tank designed to handle more.

 

[sbleile]

I'm lucky then, I have a 335 gallon tank made out of 1" acrylic.

 

[newtank]

Goat 585-"The height of the surge is important for how deep the exit of the surge return is in the display." Not sure what you mean...I would have about 4ft of head from surge tank effluent outfall to exit outlet in display. If anything I would think that head impacts velocity? I also read somewhere that more head can produce more bubbles, but there are ways to mitigate that effect....

Thanks for the insight

 

[newtank]

One other thought...I have a friend with a 180g running a wave box with a 1.5 wave constantly swashing for 3+ years in a previously used tank, no issues. I know everyones mileage will vary. I'm interested in details of tank failures for those glass tanks running surges... I'll keep looking.

 

[oralsturgeon]

Im not sure about seam stability, but I was thinking more of a second overflow just for the surg plummed into a second sump tank that is also the fill for the surg tanks. I think this would keep the primary sump with a stable non surging flow...

 

[newtank]

I'm with ya there... My returns will be external so that makes 4 600gph overflows, I can't figure out how to upload a screen shot of my layout...better figure that out before I start a build thread:idea:

 

[goat585]

Goat 585-"The height of the surge is important for how deep the exit of the surge return is in the display." Not sure what you mean...I would have about 4ft of head from surge tank effluent outfall to exit outlet in display. If anything I would think that head impacts velocity? I also read somewhere that more head can produce more bubbles, but there are ways to mitigate that effect....

Thanks for the insight

Let me try and describe it better. Most people use a 90 degree plumbing fitting where the water exits the surge into the display tank. How deep the output (fitting ) is in the water is important. If you have the surge tank say 16-20" above the display tank and have the output of the surge 12" below the water surface of the display tank the surge will not generate enough pressure to release the water. It will just airlock and produce small bubbles. Assuming the same situation but the output is 4" below the water surface the surge will fire just fine.

The height will impact the velocity to but where the output of the surge is in the display tank will and can counter act how high the surge tank is above the display. I have seen a tank that has 2 surges both made the same and at the same height above the display tank. The only difference is the depths of the output of the surges. One fires nicely and the other one takes forever to fire. It is due to the depth of the output.

I hope this helps. If not I will try and take a picture to explain.

 

[sarmo]

great thread! i have a couple questions
1-my DT is 15 years old and 8x3x3 feet. approx 500 gallons. it has 3/4 glass sides and a double thickness bottom and the top has euro brace and cross braces that are 3/4 and 1/2 siliconed together. it is an oceanic tank. i hear people talk about tank life and i'm wondering , how long is the tank life for my system?
2- could i add a surge system to my DT?
3- would people post pics of the surge tank and plumbing...

thanks

 

[sbleile]

Thanks for all the info, especially about the depth of the output. Any other suggestions?

 

[goat585]

great thread! i have a couple questions
1-my DT is 15 years old and 8x3x3 feet. approx 500 gallons. it has 3/4 glass sides and a double thickness bottom and the top has euro brace and cross braces that are 3/4 and 1/2 siliconed together. it is an oceanic tank. i hear people talk about tank life and i'm wondering , how long is the tank life for my system?
2- could i add a surge system to my DT?
3- would people post pics of the surge tank and plumbing...

thanks

1-I think I heard somewhere that the tank life of a tank from the large manufacturers (all-glass,perfecto,etc) is 15-20 years. In your case it could be different depending on the bracing.
2-You should be able to. I would keep your surge output on the small size if you are concerned about the age of your aquarium.
3-Here is the link to my build thread. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1749890

I hope this helps

 

[sarmo]

thanks Goat585!
although i don't really like hearing that my tank may be coming to the end of it's life i guess i'd have to upgrade and get something bigger

 

[goat585]

thanks Goat585!
although i don't really like hearing that my tank may be coming to the end of it's life i guess i'd have to upgrade and get something bigger

You could always reseal it. If the manufacturer is still around maybe you can ask them about the life span....
Then again how can you go wrong going larger?