Survival rate...

Mcsommerfeld

New member
Has anyone else ever had issues with fish surviving that have been shipped overnight? My survival rate is a wapping 0, zilch, nothing, nada, none...you get the idea. What do you guys do when receiving new fish? I float for 10 min, then drip acclimate for 1.5 hours until param's in the QT are the same as the bag water. Fish usually lasts about a week then...it's curtains for the poor bugggers. Am I doing something wrong? I have no problem when bringing fish home from the LFS and I follow about the same procedure but usually with a slightly shorter drip acclimation period.
 
The fish will produce so much waste in the bag that the ammonia levels in the water is probably close to lethal levels to the fish. IMO you need to go for as quick an acclimation time as you possibly can. I am starting to see that acclimating my fish is more stressful for them than just putting them in qt with no acclimation. I can order fish online or buy at lfs and with no acclimation they will be eating within 5 minutes of being in tank and no hiding, loss of color, etc..... I have had no losses whatsoever by using the no acclimation process. It seemed to be hit or miss how the fish would do if I put them through the rigors and stress of any type of acclimation.
 
Fish from the local fish store don't accumulate toxic ammonia in the bag.

Shipped fish do; however, the low ph keeps the ammonia in its less toxic form. Once you open the bag the ph increases and the ammonia accumulates.


I'm not saying that is definitely it, but a possibility.

There is a sticky about acclimating fish.
 
I temp match with the bag in the qt tank for 15mins. Then remove fish and water into a 5g bucket. Replace half the water with QT tank water. 10-15mins do that again. Then 10-15mins transfer the fish over to QT tank.

I think people overcomplicates it with the 1hr+ drip.
 
I've never lost a fish that has been shipped. I have always ordered my fish through LiveAquaria. I don't drip acclimate since it takes longer. I float the the bag to temp acclimate then add 1/2 cup of tank water every four minutes. Once the bag is full, I empty half the bag down the sink and repeat (1/2 cup of tank water every four minutes). When the bag is full again, I net the fish and discard the water. LiveAquaria gives instructions for both these ways of acclimation...filling bag 1/2 cup of water every four minutes of drip acclimation. I choose not to do the drip acclimation since it will take longer and could possibly lead to ammonia poisoning.

Also, where have you been ordering your fish from? Are you sure that you are getting them from a reputable source? Do the fish show any signs of illness once introduced to the tank? I've never had problems with LiveAquaria's fish. Never had one get sick during quarantine, and I like that they have a 14 day guarantee.
 
float for 15, then out of the bag and into a bucket (is that a song, "get out of my bag, and into your bucket!"). you can even throw an air stone into the bucket (or small powerhead) to exchange gasses. I've never lost a fish to acclimation.
 
I've never lost a fish that has been shipped. I have always ordered my fish through LiveAquaria. I don't drip acclimate since it takes longer. I float the the bag to temp acclimate then add 1/2 cup of tank water every four minutes. Once the bag is full, I empty half the bag down the sink and repeat (1/2 cup of tank water every four minutes). When the bag is full again, I net the fish and discard the water. LiveAquaria gives instructions for both these ways of acclimation...filling bag 1/2 cup of water every four minutes of drip acclimation. I choose not to do the drip acclimation since it will take longer and could possibly lead to ammonia poisoning.

Also, where have you been ordering your fish from? Are you sure that you are getting them from a reputable source? Do the fish show any signs of illness once introduced to the tank? I've never had problems with LiveAquaria's fish. Never had one get sick during quarantine, and I like that they have a 14 day guarantee.

What she said.
 
The latest fish came from saltwaterfish.com. It was a beautiful pair of blue throat triggers, they seemed healthy when I recieved them, and appeared to be acclimating well, and then all of the sudden...poof their floating.
 
The latest fish came from saltwaterfish.com. It was a beautiful pair of blue throat triggers, they seemed healthy when I recieved them, and appeared to be acclimating well, and then all of the sudden...poof their floating.

What was the SG of the shipping water and what was the SG of your tank?
 
I've gotten 3 fish mailed from LA. The first two I floated the sealed bags for 15 mins, made sure the SG matched up, then put them in the QT (discarding the water in the shipping bag). Those 2 fish are alive to this day (a firefish and a blue spotted jawfish). The third fish I got was a tailspot blenny. I temp acclimated the same, then tried the drip acclimation thing. That fish died in one day. I know what I'll be doing from now on.
 
This is pos t of mine from another thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2185929


Fish, acclimation, qauarantine and preventative treatment
<hr style="color:#FFFFFF; background-color:#FFFFFF" size="1"> Questions come up from time to time on what to do with new fish to increasing the odds for survival and prevent pathogens from entering the tank. I've tried a number of approaches over the years . The following sumarizes the current method(s) employed:

All new fish are quarantined,no exceptions.

Acclimation:

The quarantine tank is temperature adjusted to match the bag water as closely as practical without opening the bag. If the bag is warm ,the tank water should follow it ; if the bag is cool then the tank water can be cool( the qt tank can then be heated or cooled gradually to match the temp of the dispaly tank. The unopened bag is floated for 15 minutes in the tank water to complete finer gradual temp adjustments.

The qt tank water should match the sg of the bag water or be lower than the bagwater. Usually, 1.018 or so is a good bet for shipped fish. Drops in sg will not harm fish. Rapid increases can cause osmotic shock The sg can then be adjusted upward at .001 per day over the course of the qt stay to match th display.

Next, open the bag ,remove the fish and put it in the qt tank. No drip needed or desired. Once the bag is opened CO2 blows off and raises the ph in the bag water . This transforms much of the ammonia that has built up in the bag from the low toxicity ammonium NH4 to the more toxic ammonia NH3. So getting the fish out of the bag once opened quickly is important to avoid ammonia toxicity , particularly for fish confined to the bag for long periods. Avoid letting too much bag waer get into the qt tank.


Preventative treatment and observation:

Ich is the most common plague. To treat it. Fish are placed in a small tank with new salt water. Tank water brings in organics and nutrients without the biofilter to handle them so newly mixed water aged and aerated overnight is used. The tank is simple with pvc for resting/hiding places , an hob and/or sponge filter and a heater. For burying species like leopard wrasses , a bowl of sand is added. The fish will remain for 3 days so ammonia build up is not a concern.generally. To be on the safe side a small dose of ammonia detoxifier is added on the 2nd day. It's fine to use the detoxifier since no meds are in play. In contrast, Detoxifier and bound copper meds are a deadly combination .

After 72 hours the fish is/are moved to new similarly equipped tank with the same temp and sg. Care is taken to avoid adding water which might harbor a parasite from the first tank The first tank is stripped of the equipment and drained down to a few inches to facilitate gentle capture for the tansfer. It is then fully drained and diried over night along with all the equipment. The drying kills any parasites or cysts . It is set up again for the next transfer. A total of 4 transfers with 3 days in each tank will ensure any ich that cme in with teh fish is left behind. This method is known as the tank transfer method and takes advantage of the timing ich( crytocaryon irritans) life cycle.

After tank transfer , the fish can be moved to a larger cylced qt tank for further observation and treatment of other maladies that may emerge like flukes or bacterial infections.
Tank transfer only treats ich. It may have some effect on velvet but that parsites life cylce is different. It will not help brooklynella, flukes or other infestastions that confine themselves to the skin or internal areas of the fish. So if these are observed a treatment with an appropriate med is required:

Amlyloodinium( velvet): copper or formalin.
brooklynella; ( fromalin)
Flukes and/or internal parsites; (prazi pro)
lymphocystus; good water quailty and nutrition;no known treatment.
bacterial linfections Triple sulfa or other broa d based antibiotics)
 
I think floating for 15 minutes is ridiculus for fish unless there is an extreme difference in temperature, say >15-20 degrees. Various currents and thermoclines in the ocean change temperature instantly in nature. I just start a rapid acclimaion process immediately upon receiving. I also have all the fish shipped to the UPS or Fedex facility for customer pick up. THis eliminates long rides on hot or cold trucks.
 
Even though this topic appears well commented, I'd chime in and say it's likely your losses are from acclimation shock given the time of death once received.

The pH in the shipping water does decrease significantly (measured 7.6-7.5 on overnight shipments) and the longer the livestock is in the opened bag, the more toxic the water will become as the pH shifts. I would avoid drip acclimation for fish.

Transferring to high salinity water will also increase acclimation shock. Always attempt to match or transfer to a lower salinity environment. The reverse is true for temperature, attempt to go up or match if time allows, avoid going to a lower temperature.

Getting them out of the bag water into reasonably matched water conditions (salinity, temp) as quickly as possible will improve your successful acclimation odds.
 
If the salinity needs to go up, how closely do you match the SG before putting the fish into the new tank?

If you are saying that the water in the bag is a lower salinity than the tank, you need to lower the salinity in the tank and NOT raise the salinity in the bag. This is just one of the reasons you need to put new fish into a qt. If the bag water is 1.020 and your tank is 1.025, it is too much to acclimate the fish to the higher salinity over and hour or two or even more. Most recommend not changing the salinity more than .002 or so per day. I suspect salinity differential increases are more stressful to fish acclimation than just about anything else other than ammonia.
 
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