Sustaining good plankton levels.

[MARINECRITTERS]

I have just put in some refugium plants to naturally reduce phosphates and other dissolved inorganics.
For now I have some chaeto algae and two mangroves.
Also for all of the nps tank owners, feel free to post some photos of your system with a bit of info.

 

[GreshamH]

I had been told that a low slight bubbling rate was good for rotifers and that is true but as the density gets higher, particularly in a deeper tower, you need more oxygen. In a wide flat container, the rots can hang out closer to the top where oxygen levels are higher. I was also told that lots of bubbles might get between body parts and kill rotifers. Of course, what I hear and what they actually say might be two different things but I asked Reeds and they said that might be true of other bigger animals but not rotifers. Therefore, I ran my tower at a strong boil. They loved it

Yah, we (Reed) have our rotifer cultures boiling in bubbles :lol:

 

[herring_fish]

Update and Question:

I got the new dense culture and slowly acclimated it to the display tank's salinity and then dumped it directly into the tower instead of multiplying it in a container in the kitchen. The kitchen was where I killed three or four starter cultures.

Then a cold front came in and the 10 watt heater, that was rated for a 10 gallon tank, wasn't worth two cents. With all of the air blowing through it, the temperature fell below the purported minimum temp of 68. I changed to an old 50 watt heater and that wasn't enough so I put in a 150 watt unit that I had in the junk box and the temp stabilized at 73.6 plus or minus .2 degrees.

This week, the population has gotten where I want it so I am about to start cycling the 2 gallons of display tank water through it, in smaller increments throughout the the day.

Yah, we (Reed) have our rotifer cultures boiling in bubbles :lol:

When I ran my four month test, I didn't use a bubble stone and got the boil that we talked about. For some reason I noticed that there is one in the tower this time. I don't remember why I put it on there.

during the first test run of the tower, full size bubbles that were coming from the 1/4 air tube, grew as they rose and appeared to get much bigger, tearing apart and rejoining with others by the time that they got to the top. This gave it the very energetic look of boiling.

Using the same pump as before, I must be getting somewhat close to the same air output but in those smaller bubbles. they aren't splitting but as they rise, they appear to be multiplying instead of simply moving apart.

These smaller bubbles in a tube, work as a skimmer. The tower quickly formed about a six inch frothy head and later started depositing scum on the wall.

GreshamH: Should I remove the air stone?

 

[nicewicz]

OK, I finally got my act together and took some recent photos of my nps tank. I don't mean to hijack your thread, but you asked for some photos and here they are (btw, your tank looks awesome and healthy MARINECRITTERS). I have a lone male erectus seahorse in there now and am adding a female erectus in about a month. I mainly have gorgonians and a few sun corals.

FTS:

Daytime FTS:

Close-up of male erectus (Jasper) and diodogorgia nodulifera, astrogorgia sp. (midground) and echinogorgia sp. (background)

Another FTS:

Auto feeding unit:

 

[MARINECRITTERS]

Nicewicz, beautiful aquarium I love the gorgonian!
By no means are you hijacking this thread, it is meant for people to share their ideas and to show people their systems.
Also how much do you feed your tank daily?

 

[nicewicz]

I feed 300mL of cultured phytoplankton mixture with ~2 cubes of cyclopeeze and maybe a teaspoon full of freshly hatched BBS (teaspoon of the decapsulated eggs to start). That mixture doses once an hour 24 hrs a day. Then, oyster feast and roti feast is dosed 8 times a day (6 mL each total per day). Shellfish Diet is dosed also 8 times a day (12 mL total). I have the dry autofeeder on the main tank display dosing ~1/4 tsp of dry food mix that consists of equal parts reef pearls, ultra sea fan and ultra min F. This doses the 1/4 tsp over the course of 1 hour once every three hours. Every once in a while a add a drop or two of arcti-pods.
As you can tell, I feed a lot! Most of it is automated, but every once in a while I dissolve the dry mix food when all of the gorgonians are open and spray each one. I also spot feed the sun corals 3-4x a week.
My nitrates were consistently topping 80 ppm. Now I've managed to get them down to 20 ppm with weekly water changes of 40% and biopellets. The biopellets are starting to kick in a make a difference. I just need to keep adding a bit more.

 

[GreshamH]

Update and Question:

I got the new dense culture and slowly acclimated it to the display tank's salinity and then dumped it directly into the tower instead of multiplying it in a container in the kitchen. The kitchen was where I killed three or four starter cultures.

Then a cold front came in and the 10 watt heater, that was rated for a 10 gallon tank, wasn't worth two cents. With all of the air blowing through it, the temperature fell below the purported minimum temp of 68. I changed to an old 50 watt heater and that wasn't enough so I put in a 150 watt unit that I had in the junk box and the temp stabilized at 73.6 plus or minus .2 degrees.

This week, the population has gotten where I want it so I am about to start cycling the 2 gallons of display tank water through it, in smaller increments throughout the the day.



When I ran my four month test, I didn't use a bubble stone and got the boil that we talked about. For some reason I noticed that there is one in the tower this time. I don't remember why I put it on there.

during the first test run of the tower, full size bubbles that were coming from the 1/4 air tube, grew as they rose and appeared to get much bigger, tearing apart and rejoining with others by the time that they got to the top. This gave it the very energetic look of boiling.

Using the same pump as before, I must be getting somewhat close to the same air output but in those smaller bubbles. they aren't splitting but as they rise, they appear to be multiplying instead of simply moving apart.

These smaller bubbles in a tube, work as a skimmer. The tower quickly formed about a six inch frothy head and later started depositing scum on the wall.

GreshamH: Should I remove the air stone?

Since you are continually removing the culture water, its harder to keep clean, so you'll get scum at the top with fine bubbles. I'd remove it and stick with just a rigid airline.

For a closed system I'd suggest RGcomplete to feed them as it allows cultures to stay pretty darn clean. I'm not sure if using it in an open system like yours, that it would have the same effect (worth the shot though).

 

[herring_fish]

I am using RGcomplete! Eric turned me on to it. I like the fact that I can be more relaxed on the feeding because I don't have to worry about pH swings or ammonia as much. After all, for me, I have too much other stuff to do. I just want a good steady state system that I don't have to mess with.

He told me that it was less concentrated but almost commensurately cheaper so it is still a good deal. I am feeding the tower and the display tank as well.

I think that I do have a closed system. The water comes from the display tank, hangs out in the tower and then goes back to the display tank. Do you mean open system in a different way? Oh you mean that I am changing water, even if it is with tank water not freshly mixed.

 

[GreshamH]

Yes, I mean open as in your culture tank is connected to your DT

YOu should not be getting much bubbles if your using RGcomplete.

 

[E.intheC]

This is a fascinating thread.

 

[MARINECRITTERS]

Hey guys, So far in the world of NPS keeping the tanks are usually not as healthy as we intend ( unless you have a constant source of ocean water ). For some reason these corals will always die after certain periods of time even with mass amounts of food.
What I want us to find out is, what is the missing link? Meaning what are we missing.
So lets try to create a list of things found in the ocean and these animals environments that we should start replicating.
I will start off with the obvious and you guys can add on.
Seawater elements, calcium, magnesium, potassium, alkalinty, and so on.
Live food and dissolved organics ( plankton and detritus particulates ), along with nutrients.
Laminar flow, although slack periods are beneficial.
Low nitrates and other in-organics.
Low light
cooler temperatures
and so on.
Don't be afraid to add in things that may not be proven, for example maybe since co2 is more present in deep ocean maybe that has an impacts on the really deep water coral, or maybe silt and nutrient rich dirt coming from rivers are important.

Is it possible to have a freshwater plankton culture in an auto top off container to be put back in the main aquarium?

 

[nicewicz]

This is more anecdotal, but I seem to notice increased polyp extension of my gorgonians as soon as I do a water change. I don't know if that has to do with the temporary stoppage of water flow or the replenishing of nutrients in my aquarium. Also, I notice that my pH and dKH run a bit low (pH - 7.8; dKH - 8.5) compared to the freshly mixed saltwater (pH - 8.3; dKH - 10.5) I use. I'm not certain if I'm simply capturing high amounts of CO2 via aeration or something I'm adding that's causing the pH drop. Whatever it is, my calcium levels remain normal (420 ppm).

This point you bring up is a good one. Are we just missing a key mineral nutrient? Is it flow?

 

[MARINECRITTERS]

This is more anecdotal, but I seem to notice increased polyp extension of my gorgonians as soon as I do a water change. I don't know if that has to do with the temporary stoppage of water flow or the replenishing of nutrients in my aquarium. Also, I notice that my pH and dKH run a bit low (pH - 7.8; dKH - 8.5) compared to the freshly mixed saltwater (pH - 8.3; dKH - 10.5) I use. I'm not certain if I'm simply capturing high amounts of CO2 via aeration or something I'm adding that's causing the pH drop. Whatever it is, my calcium levels remain normal (420 ppm).

This point you bring up is a good one. Are we just missing a key mineral nutrient? Is it flow?

I think flow is for sure a factor, I believe that these corals need a slack period so they can rejuvenate and " heal " from the powerful flow.
I wonder if the reason these corals perish is because they loose the ability to feed after quite some time, maybe the pinnula that some corals posses eventually rot away because we are missing something in the water to keep that part healthy ( pinnula is a small feather like structure on some coral polyps that allow them to feed on certain foods such as phytoplankton ).

So I am now going to try out the slack period by turning off all the pumps for about 10 minutes every day. It may be true that when the slack period comes all the particles/food in the oceans current starts falling down allowing the coral to feed on them.

 

[MARINECRITTERS]

I have recently come across an article about ahermatypic corals/non photosynthetic corals
that talks about the corals being found around water dredgers which are machines in shallow coastal waters that suck up sediments from the ocean floor and disposes of them in other locations. What this means is these corals seem to enjoy areas with sediments stirred up in the water column, it gives them the ability to feed on detritus and other microfauna living in then sand bed. It is so surprising that these corals like this environment since the the dredging pipes are so shallow, this means that this marine snow type effect is very important to corals.

 

[MARINECRITTERS]

Just a little update.
All is well in the aquarium, the azoox corals are doing just fine. I am starting to culture my own phytoplankton, if any of you guys have some tips that would be great. First off I did not want to use some little 2 litre water bottle to culture it in, as we know these corals need a lot of food, so I will use a larger container. I am going to get the nine pound bucket of phytoplankton fertilizer from florida aqua farms, along with a starter culture ( tetraselmis ). In the container I have a large pump, as I believe the plankton need strong flow to simulate the ocean, I also have a heater, light and an air pump. Once I get the culture nice and dark green I will split it and put the half in the holding tank for the dosing pump to put in my aquarium. Then I will fill the container up again to start this process.
Since I have already bought a phytoplankton reactor from aqua medic, what do you guys think I should do with it?

 

[nicewicz]

Just a little update.
All is well in the aquarium, the azoox corals are doing just fine. I am starting to culture my own phytoplankton, if any of you guys have some tips that would be great. First off I did not want to use some little 2 litre water bottle to culture it in, as we know these corals need a lot of food, so I will use a larger container. I am going to get the nine pound bucket of phytoplankton fertilizer from florida aqua farms, along with a starter culture ( tetraselmis ). In the container I have a large pump, as I believe the plankton need strong flow to simulate the ocean, I also have a heater, light and an air pump. Once I get the culture nice and dark green I will split it and put the half in the holding tank for the dosing pump to put in my aquarium. Then I will fill the container up again to start this process.
Since I have already bought a phytoplankton reactor from aqua medic, what do you guys think I should do with it?

Sell the reactor to me! J/k

If you've never cultured phyto before, nannochloropsis is by far the easiest. Tips: be certain to sterilize everything before you use it. I use old aquarium water that I sterilize with bleach for 24 h. Then I neutralize the bleach right before usage with sodium thiosulfate. Also, be sure to put a .54 micron filter on your airline. This prevents bacteria from contaminating your cultures. I've found the filter to be key to long-lasting cultures.

 

[MARINECRITTERS]

Here are some pictures

 

[MARINECRITTERS]

Also here is a video which shows just how much particulate and plankton comes out at night.
http://s1078.beta.photobucket.com/user/MARINECRITTERS/media/MVI_9564.mp4.html

 

[MARINECRITTERS]

After doing quite a large amount of research on deep sea life ( specifically on life around the hydrothermal vents ) I have learned that these animals who live in such a harsh environment, no light, high pressure, toxic water and extreme temperatures have something in common, they lack photosynthesis but these hydrothermal vent animals have a bacteria which converts the hydrogen sulphide to a form of energy. What if the non photosynthetic animals we keep in aquariums have a bacteria as well but we are not putting in the right elements for the bacteria to produce energy. Do any of you have any experience with such a theory?

 

[victor_c3]

You guys are talking about a system that sounds exactly what I've been brainstorming in my head for quite a long time. I've done a lot of reading and research and came to many of the same conclusions that have been mentioned here.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to actually build and implement this system yet. I'm stuck renting a house for the next few years and I have small children so there is no way I can set up a complex aquarium system.

The system that I was envisioning would be skimmerless, have an oversized sump based on the duplex sump concept discussed at length on the "advanced topics" section of reef central and would be fitted with an oversized remote deep sand bed. The water would hit an algae turf scrubber for a final polish before returning back to the display. I might even try to include a sea-grass/macro algae tank into the mix. I'd try to give the sump area a total volume of at least 2-3x the display volume.

The main idea with the sump would be to try to replicate as many different biotopes as I could with the assumption that different biotopes would add something to the overall stability of the system. I'm assuming that you would get different flora and fauna growing in a dark region with high flow from a dark region with low flow, from a high light area with high flow, etc.

Anyways, I'm extremely interested in what you guys are doing. I'll be here lurking and reading...