Tank Crashed Yesterday...

If it was an NH4 -> NH3 event I doubt there was "one" cause. I think it was a combination of a lot of factors. A die off, PH dropping, Coral-Vite (Possible but unlikely) and a PH increase brought on by a water change.

All of it's a theory anyway, there is no "obvious" reason why it crashed. It is however one idea that seemingly fits the facts. There are definite holes in it that I readily acknowledge. Typically this doesn't happen on a Marine system. It's far far more prevalent on Freshwater systems that have poor maintenance. That clearly isn't the case. So whether it happened or not, I can't honestly say, but the markers fit your situation. I think you are absolutely doing the right things.

For insurence I would get a total ammonia kit from Seachem if it WAS an NH4 event it would have marked it where most test kits don't. I think otherwise everything I have read here tells me you are on a great track to repairing the system. Good luck man, I went through a crash on my 24 gallon and it sucked and totally bummed me out.
 
I just went and checked on things. No skimate in the skimmer. Am I being impatient? I have it set as "wet" as it can be- it has not pulled anything in 3 hours.

Ammonia was .1
 
I'm glad things are going better. Don't withdraw the sponges all at once: phase them out over 2 weeks, and then go strictly skimmer/live rock and I think you'll have a more stable situation.

ArgonDreams, you raise an interesting point. When everything's running well in a coral reef, it's all good; and then you have the one death that offends all the rest in a chain reaction---it's one reason for keeping sufficient stuff standing by for a water change at all times.
WIth that skimmer, now, you also won't have the buildup of nitrates or just general 'stuff' in the system: you'll be pitching the skimmate as it fills, and the color of that will tell you how much you're taking out that otherwise would have been in there working bad chemistry. That skimmer ought to be plenty potent for a 24g, and should let you build up your coral population again without worry. Just let it all settle before you get a new specimen, and watch for signs of growth in what you have. When those grow, is time to start re-building.
 
Takes a while to get going. It will: the breakin can take days, but by the vinegar wash you should have shortened that time. I'd expect to see some at least by tomorrow. Don't know, too if there's a band around the cup as there is in its cousin the Urchin: if there is, where you set that band determines how dark the skimmate. I'd set it midway.
The way a skimmer works, it jets water into water and produces a froth, which is the stray amino acids, just like that yellow nasty froth on the beach; and the froth rises higher and higher in the column until it gets into the cup, so just because you don't see anything in the cup yet, it's probably frothing down there somewhere, and rising.
 
Sk8r:

No worries- I am NOT going back to my old levels anytime soon (not at all, actually!). I have taken my time so far, really, never adding anything new any sooner than 2 weeks before its predissesor.

I will be adding snails again once things stabilize, but I doubt anything else will be going in for a while.

Should I be worried about no skimmate yet, or am I being impatient? I have heard of people dumping a cup after the first few hours.... and I have nada...
 
well the .1 is a good sign, man you have had a bad couple days but looks like you may be turning the corner here. If the ammonia starts that big rise again, you are going to need to find out why. You will need a bucket for your rock and a powerhead to rinse it... You will have to pull out each piece, hose it with the powerhead and figure out what died and get it out of there.

Could be that some hitchhiker you did not even know about died and is causing the problem hang in there :)
 
Well, I had hoped to have better news today. I did a 10 gal change last night. Water was looking clearer- still some cloudyness, but much improved. But this morning, I had about .4 ammonia. I popped in 5 ml of Ammonia Detox, and got it back to 0.... but I think I will have to do as Randall explained above tonight.

So I figure I will make 2 buckets tonight- one for rinsing, one for holding, and pull the rocks, rinse and hold while I work through them all.

The skimmer has some bubbles staring to rise up the skimmer a bit, but still no skimmate produced.

Damn, this is really getting me down!

Dave
 
just hang in there, you are on a good track and looks like the worst is over. The ammonia should not be going up again however unless there is something feeding it (decaying)
 
Thanks Randall.

With a .4 this moring, you still think that is high enough to warrant pulling all the rocks?
 
.4 is not good, I would pull the rock and inspect

you need be careful so that anything that is dead goes with the rock... your nose is going to be your best "finder" when you find the offending item, it will "offend" your nose :)
 
OK, I will do that. I plan on having a bucket with a PH to "blow Off" the rocks..., another bucket to "hold" the cleaned rock until I get it all out and cleaned. The Blow Off bucket will get tossed out (obviously!), but can I use the hold bucket to change out some water, too?
 
ok, HERE is the report!

Got home- ammonia at .5- BAD. I dosed it to get it down, then made some water. Pulled the rocks, and blew them off one at a time. Nothing obvious, none of the rocks had that purtid odor. I found abut 4 more snail shells... and a few Hermies crabs (Mine are designer crabs). I just yanked all the snails, and piled all the crabs in a corner. Those that have not moved in an hour get pitched.

Well, I really F***ed stuff up- dust cloud city. Broke the Frogspawn. The Anenome is REALLY not a happy camper.

Put it back together, not nearly as nice as it was, but oh well.

Running all the filters and such to try and clean things up to see what will live through this mess. I will probably get on a 10 gal change in an hour or so, too. I won't really trust a new amonia reading (for being accurate for the tank) until tomorrow.

Do you think 4-5 dead snails is enough to be causing that much ammonia? I am out of ideas if this does not stop things. I will be selling some corals real cheap tomorrow if I am at .4 again.
 
Yow! I would run some [about 3/4 cup of] carbon in a new kneehigh nylon, and see if that won't knock the ammonia down. Hopefully after this adventure you'll just have more frags than you did and it will all grow back: we've all been there on that one. The skimmer is working by now---you may not see skimmate in the cup, but its going to be frothing down in the black box, and whatever is in there is not going to be in the water at large, so just be patient with that---but not the ammonia. If you happen to have a cannister filter, you might try a 1 micron cartridge if you have a pump that can push it: it's the modern equivalent of a diatom filter, and it can polish the water back to crystal clarity pretty fast. Back in the Jurassic when we all used crushed coral substrate, many shops kept a 'lender' diatom filter, and it would clean up a substrate overturn in a hurry. I wouldn't rush out and buy a whole new filter system if you don't happen to have a cannister: honestly a situation this bad only tends to happen to everybody once. I think you can get through this: stuff that blue/white filter floss into the downflow area and pull it and rinse it in ro/di every few hours: that will get it cleared out, just slower.

Re your question about snails: depends on size. Four big turbos could gag a hyaena. They're really, really stinky, and that means rot and ammonia.
 
There was one turbo... and 4 or so cerinth (?)- the round/triangular ones that like to lick glass.

I have some floss in there now, and Chemi-Pure, which is carbon. That was new on Monday when I started panicking- should still be OK, right? And a new Purigen.

It is actually clearing up pretty quick.

I had some skimmate when I got home- VERY liquid. Filled the container, slightly brown. I dumped that, but the bubble column has not gotten back up to the top agian for more overflow. BTW, I raised the cup about 1/ inch. I have 2 more inches to raise it- figure I will go slow.
 
Here is a Picture from just a minute ago:

aqq.jpg


Hey, something else I have noticed- I am over run with algea! Every time I turn around, there is more on the glass. I cleaned it as a removed the rocks.... and now I see more. It is brownish...
 
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Well, no joy this morning. I got a .6 this morning.....

A little bit of good news- the anenome LOOKS better, the frog and the brain are out pretty good. And the skimmer is shooting out gunk.

But still, after all this, that ammonia level has me real down.
 
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