Tested detritus-filled water

[Captainsreef]

How do you know that's true?

Actually, I probably should split the animal discussion into a separate thread, since it's not relevant to the original topic.

Because it is true is how I know. A higher index of species diversity in any system will counteract catastrophic tank crashes or in other words the greater the species diversity the better it can maintain balance. That's just proper science and when we incorporate filter feeders that eat materials from the water column that would otherwise cause nuisance algae growth and those that feed on leftover food etc it stands to reason that the system will show an overall sign of healty as has been exhibited in all of my systems. I think you misundestand what my point is. My point is that by instituting the correct life forms in the tanks heirarchy we create a much more balanced and robust system that will still inherit detritus but not on the level of a tank that doesn't incorporate these methods. This results in stability and less cleanings needed along with less equipment because things in the tank are working for you rather than simply existing in the tank. So I think that you thought I mistook the conversation when the fact is that you are ot listening to what I am saying we both think each other the fool..hahahaha but I know I am right and I have a wealth of tanks and experience to prove it...hahahaha so no we wont eliminate detritus but we can get the tank working for us to help us out and there is more harm in not increasing the species index of our tanks than not. Anyone that would argue against increasing the species diversity of their tank and is not smart enough to understand how these ecosystems really work doesn't have any business giving advice and that's not to sound harsh to be truthful whereas the lives of animals are at stake. Detritus is going to collect in tanks because you are taking a natural setting and sealing it off from nature in a glass box with the waste having nowhere to go but to be siphoned out. The water as a result deteriorates over time and needs to be refreshed. That's just part of aquarium keeping. However when we take what nature does and use our brains we find that things will work a whole lot better and will take less care. So now maybe you will understand that yes it is interrelated and I know a thing or two that maybe some of you haven't considered hahhahaha

 

[bertoni]

Well, you are welcome to your opinions.

 

[Captainsreef]

It's not opinion it's fact. The thing with opinions is that they are fine to have but they will never change reality from being reality..hahahaha you can call something whatever you want to call it but that'll never change it from being what it is hahahhaa

 

[reefwars]

It's not opinion it's fact.

prove it?

 

[Captainsreef]

http://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Wildlife-Conservation/Biodiversity.aspx
http://www.greenfacts.org/en/biodiversity/l-3/1-define-biodiversity.htm
http://education-portal.com/academy...tion-and-relation-to-ecosystem-stability.html
http://coralreef.noaa.gov/aboutcorals/values/biodiversity/
http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/about-the-reef/biodiversity
http://coral.org/coral-reefs-101/coral-reef-ecology/coral-reef-biodiversity/
http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/saltwater-science/why_are_coral_reefs_important
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/mvd/index.php
http://www.algagen.com/?p=14

 

[Captainsreef]

There's a few for ya covering all aspects now back at you disprove it..That's right you can't and there's more evidence to support my claims then there is to support the other. Cheers!

 

[Captainsreef]

http://www.esa.org/esablog/research/fish-biodiversity-protects-coral-reefs/
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0025026
http://www.defenders.org/coral-reef/basic-facts
http://m.sciencemag.org/content/295/5558/1280.short
http://m.pnas.org/content/99/17/11241.short
http://m.pnas.org/content/105/42/16201.short
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v450/n7166/abs/nature06197.html
there's a few more that I reviewed for my PhD

 

[Captainsreef]

Oh and I type tongue in cheek so I'm not being a jerk I'm just being straight up so don't take it the wrong way. Hahaha but yeah I know what I'm talking about and my aim is to help others to become better aquarists and the saltwater hobby is filled to the brim with know it alls that in reality need to check themselves before they rikkety wreck their animals hahaaha

 

[reefwars]

I know what biodiversity is , I could have googled that .

I'm talking about how is adding more micro life the only way I'll avoid a tank crash , if I filled my living room with as much diversity as I could that doesn't mean I have a healthy ecosystem , eventually food runs out and territories are staked , the highest on the chain out compete the lowest as escape is impossible , New mates are limited and the risk of failure is more.

I get it I do , I just don't think the way you state it is correct

 

[reefwars]

It's all good I know your passionate about it

As far as fact goes though I'd like to see aquarium reef related facts on diversity related to long term success or how it's the key in avoiding catastrophic failure

I find haywire heaters to be mostly a cause

 

[reefwars]

Power outages are another

I haven't heard anything for lack of diversity in the way of crashes

 

[Captainsreef]

It's all good I know your passionate about it

As far as fact goes though I'd like to see aquarium reef related facts on diversity related to long term success or how it's the key in avoiding catastrophic failure

I find haywire heaters to be mostly a cause

Haywire heaters certainly don't help hahahahaa

 

[bertoni]

That's right you can't and there's more evidence to support my claims then there is to support the other.

That's your opinion, too. None of those articles discusses the cause of tank crashes.

 

[Captainsreef]

So let me get this straight you are going to argue against bio diversity in aquariums because you actually believe that by not keeping a diversified tank you can benefit when we have millions of years of evidence and the natural history of these eco systems and you think thats opinion? Bwahahaha

 

[Captainsreef]

Why you think an aquarium would be any different when it essentially is the same thing only displaced and encased by artificial means. It is a well documented fact in nature that biodiversity is essential. It's no diffefent in an aquarium. The higher the index of species diversity the lower the likelihood of catastrophic failure? Cheers!

 

[boxfishpooalot]

Why you think an aquarium would be any different when it essentially is the same thing only displaced and encased by artificial means. It is a well documented fact in nature that biodiversity is essential. It's no diffefent in an aquarium. The higher the index of species diversity the lower the likelihood of catastrophic failure? Cheers!

I agree biodiversity will prevent a tank crash due to uptake of food. Less food, wether it's organic detritus, consumed by worms, food Uneaten that sits on the bottom, consumed by hermit crabs, chaeto consuming the inorganic nutrients will lower those, all those things will make an ecosystem. Of course there a lot more, but this is the idea of a functioning ecosystem. Our tanks can do the same as the sea but much smaller of course.

About detritus, I'm surprised too it wasn't higher. I bet it would raise after a day in a bucket with aeration. You going to try that?

 

[Big E]

Why you think an aquarium would be any different when it essentially is the same thing only displaced and encased by artificial means. It is a well documented fact in nature that biodiversity is essential. It's no diffefent in an aquarium. The higher the index of species diversity the lower the likelihood of catastrophic failure? Cheers!

I'm sorry, but I have to call BS on this statement.

I can run an SPS tank with no Live rock, barebottom and some ceramic material and they'll grow & thrive for as long as I'm alive.

I don't need bugs, pods, ect. or diversity of the bacteria.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Bilk -

Regarding your original question, your results make quite a lot of sense with respect to the physical chemistry aspects of solubilization and the partitioning of nutrients between organic and inorganic forms.

Most test kits are only designed to react with inorganic forms of nutrients (i.e., free PO4- and NO3- dissolved in the water), and won't quantitate more complex organic molecules that contain nitrogen and phosphorus. So environmental chemists will perform a more complex procedure called "digestion" that converts all of the chemical species in a sample to their simplest, oxidized forms. One then quantitates the total phosphate/nitrate in the digested sample, and subtracts the results from the un-digested sample. That yields a good estimate for the partitioning between the organic and inorganic forms of the nutrients.

The digestion procedure varies, but one example is acidifying the sample with nitric acid, then boiling it for 30 minutes. This isn't something I'd recommend to a hobbyist without a chemistry or other science background. Not only is nitric acid one of the compounds on the DOT watch list (it can be used for nefarious purposes), boiling mineral acid is quite dangerous without the proper equipment and knowledge.

A better plan might be to do some research to come up with a few papers where the authors have quantitated phosphorus and nitrogen in marine sediments. While I don't have any of those references at hand, I'm certain they're out there - ocean nutrient partitioning is of great interest in the scientific community.

 

[bertoni]

I agree biodiversity will prevent a tank crash due to uptake of food.

What effect does biodiversity have in this respect?

 

[reefwars]

one problem with adding as much biodiversity as possible is our closed systems wont support them all long term , sure they will all get along fine untill food runs out or predators decline the numbers ,so as captain said i guess i can feed more to keep these animals going but seems counter productive no and not very efficient.

i believe these animals have a place and important role but i dont think excess amounts of them being added is anything you can bank on longterm or even keep track of


many times ive heard of worms , stars, amphipoids etc growing out of control and then measures have to be taken to get pop down , since we dont feed them directly then we have very little control oh how they reproduce.

in fact i would be theres very little data on how ofetn they reproduce, their lifespans, needs, actual diets and reproductive stages/times


i think my bristle worms do a great job but im not about to add 40 ( thats the number i get from the recommendation given on my system) just to watch them either starve or reproduce to huge numbers......finding that sweet spot seems trial and error-ish


certain species play a larger role than others do , for example bacterium have many roles and we dont agree that adding more bacteria is always a good idea...i cant see micro fauna being any different in respect, the numbers that most reefs have are a natural balanced number based off the enviroment and its offerings that resulted in a balanced number of these species , adding to this or trying to manipulate this may and prob can cause grief as much a chance as it could benefits.