By the species? Meaning there are literally thousands of separate permits?
No, I am actually quite against wild collection in most cases, lol. ;-)
The decline of species in are hobby who is to blame. A discussion, not a blaming gam
- Thread starter Mudbeaver
- Start date
No, I am actually quite against wild collection in most cases, lol. ;-)
In the US we have both Customs, Fish and Wildlife, and agricultural inspectors.
One permit per shipment that lists the individual species and quantities of each.
And NOAA-NMFS
Figures I'd forget them :lol:
mighties_keeper
New member
That is interesting that four agencies and things still get into the country.
4 agencies overseeing a MOUNTAIN of imports. They don't just deal with tropical fish after all.
mighties_keeper
New member
That is true but I wasn't talking about just tropical fish.
That is odd as we all have been talking about livestock imports :lol: Since you are changing the subject, there are more then just those 4 that deal with imports. EPA, FDA, USDA, ICE, etc, etc. Even with those in place, the extreme volume of imports are FAR beyond that of them being able to fully control. IIRC they can't even inspect 1/30 of what comes in. Nearly all fish and coral shipments get some sort of inspection.
I feel pretty good finally getting an agreement that no one is writing permits per species... Took awhile to get that across, so I just wanted to say THANK YOU!!!
They are... they just are not writing an single permit for each coral.... but, each coral collected IS listed by species and has an allotment for that SINGLE coral.
Ohioreefer7
New member
I believe all the hysteria about the lionfish in the Caribbean is an explanation for the little people as to why the fish stocks are declining and the reefs are dying. Corporations use the lionfish as a cover so that they can pollute and overfish the oceans and the public thinks it is because of the lionfish. I once even read that a person in charge of lionfish derbies said lionfish were worse than an oil spill.
:uhoh3: Um no. This isn't coming from "corporations", it's coming from Floridians. They are a huge problem.
<IFRAME height=315 src="//www.youtube.com/embed/JnAbtkMdCoI" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>
Ohioreefer7
New member
Up where I live there are zebra mussels and round gobies and everyone said the lake ecosystem would be destroyed. But that never happened, instead what has happened is farmers have fertilized the crops and it runs off into the fields and into the lakes and then there are algae blooms which produce toxic algae. The toxic algae was produced from man not from the zebra mussel or the round goby. They like to say it is because of invasive species but the truth is that it is man that pollutes the lakes and destroys nature. The same is true of lionfish, man has overfished the ocean leaving a lot of small fish to multiply and since the lionfish can not be fished commerically it survives and increases in population size because there are so many small fish due to lack of native predators.
I really wish there could be a way for divers to go to a remote place in the Caribbean like I did in Belize and see for themselves that if nature is left alone it does just fine. The lionfish problem is tiny compared to the destruction that humans do.
:lol: Zebra mussels are indeed still an issue, even in not related to another issue, the phytoplankton blooms.
Ditto with lionfish. They are a problem due to lack of larger fish... they are an issue due to the larger fish not eating them in that area. They are learning, people have seen groupers and sharks getting lionfish. They are indeed a real issue for western tropical Atlantic. Yeah, there are other issues, but if you've been following the lionfish story closely, you'll see they are greatly expanding in both numbers and range. Just wait till they get to Belize, it'll happen, then your tune will change
Ditto with lionfish. They are a problem due to lack of larger fish... they are an issue due to the larger fish not eating them in that area. They are learning, people have seen groupers and sharks getting lionfish. They are indeed a real issue for western tropical Atlantic. Yeah, there are other issues, but if you've been following the lionfish story closely, you'll see they are greatly expanding in both numbers and range. Just wait till they get to Belize, it'll happen, then your tune will change
gone fishin
New member
Ohioreefer I think you are trying to connect apples and oranges. It is just not working.
Ohioreefer7
New member
When I went to Belize there were tons of lionfish but also tons of other fish. When I went to Cancun there were no lionfish because they remove them from the reef there, yet the reefs were pretty sickly and there were little fish. The conclusion I drew was that there was a lot of pollution from the hotels and city nearby and that the pollution from man was far worse for the reef and fish than the lionfish.
Yes nonpoint source pollution has had a major impact to any body of water for the last several hundred years. I doubt anyone will argue that.
The problem is these two species are not finished and are expanding their ranges. For example the number of Zebra mussels collected in the Susquehanna River in PA went from 0 in 2008 to just under 13,000 last year.
The same trend is occurring in Maryland.
Not only do they out compete native mussel species but they can affect spawning behavior of fish species.
Gobies are doing the same and out competes natives for food and habitat.
Because of pollution water quality has degraded which has impacted the sport fisheries and because the gobies can survive these conditions continue winning.
Rarely is it a single event that pushes the issue but sometimes it is that next event that pushes it past the point of no return.
Ohioreefer7
New member
What I think is strange is the logic that is used. The papers say the zebra mussels and gobies bioaccumulate toxins and that is a reason why they are bad. The gobies eat the toxic zebra mussels and then birds eat the gobies and die so that is why the gobies and zebra mussels are bad. Well nobody asks where the toxins come from. Well they come from toxic algae blooms and why are the algae blooms toxic? Because farmers put pesticides and fertilizers on their crops which are washed into the lake. The algae take up these toxins and the zebra mussels eat the algae and the gobies eat the zebra mussels and then birds eat the gobies and die. The ultimate fault is man but everyone blames the zebra mussels and gobies.
