The Dirty SPS Tank Club

[Dog boy Dave]

Dave, I love your videos. Your fish look so well fed and happy. Out of curiosity, what are your nitrates and phosphates?



Looking great! I'll have to post some pictures of my sump on Sunday after I do my water change. I measured my po4 yesterday and it was .11 on my Hannah Checker. Nitrates have hit 10. I got a few Zebra Turbo snails for what looks like a little green algae on the underside of some rocks, but it doesn't look that severe. My SPS seem very happy with full polyp extension. A few of them have encrusted to the rocks they were glued on, so hopefully they start growing outward now that they've started laying down a solid base.

Alex, I haven't checked nitrates in years and I have never checked for phosphates. I dont have a phosphate tester. I have considered beginning to test for those two though I have always assumed that they are high based algae, silicates, and cyano growth I get in my sumps and on my glass. I also grow cheato that grows medium to fast depending ...So I would expect to have measurable phosphates and possibly nitrates as well.

 

[afernandez]

Dave, I love your videos. Your fish look so well fed and happy. Out of curiosity, what are your nitrates and phosphates?



Looking great! I'll have to post some pictures of my sump on Sunday after I do my water change. I measured my po4 yesterday and it was .11 on my Hannah Checker. Nitrates have hit 10. I got a few Zebra Turbo snails for what looks like a little green algae on the underside of some rocks, but it doesn't look that severe. My SPS seem very happy with full polyp extension. A few of them have encrusted to the rocks they were glued on, so hopefully they start growing outward now that they've started laying down a solid base.

Right before I did my water change Sunday, I checked my phosphates on the Hanna low range and they came back at .05 not too bad for some one who over feeds . I haven't tested for nitrates since June lol but I have a good idea they are measurable my corals seem to be happy aswell some pieces I aded about 3 weeks ago are allready encrusting so that makes me pretty happy....during my water change I got this crazy idea to shoppvac my overflow lol I must admit I have a cleaning problem lol

 

[Alex T.]

Alex, I haven't checked nitrates in years and I have never checked for phosphates. I dont have a phosphate tester. I have considered beginning to test for those two though I have always assumed that they are high based algae, silicates, and cyano growth I get in my sumps and on my glass. I also grow cheato that grows medium to fast depending ...So I would expect to have measurable phosphates and possibly nitrates as well.

Amazing. I can't stop looking at all those mature colonies and beautiful fish.

Right before I did my water change Sunday, I checked my phosphates on the Hanna low range and they came back at .05 not too bad for some one who over feeds . I haven't tested for nitrates since June lol but I have a good idea they are measurable my corals seem to be happy aswell some pieces I aded about 3 weeks ago are allready encrusting so that makes me pretty happy....during my water change I got this crazy idea to shoppvac my overflow lol I must admit I have a cleaning problem lol

I can't reach the bottom of the overflow, so every once in a while I take my sponge wand and swirl it around at the bottom of the overflow and then pull the drain pipe and let it all drain to the sump. I think there's many more of us out there than will admit it.:thumbsup:

 

[Spyderturbo007]

I'm thinking I might jump on this bandwagon and go for a ride. I've tried everything, including my most recent switch from T5s to a $1,400 LED fixture. I can bleach anything and my corals barely grow.

They start out with beautiful dark, rich and sometimes subtle colors and turn into dull, drab shadows of what they were when purchased. I've tried everything from lower Alkalinity, adjusting the photoperiod, different bulbs, GFO, GAC, no GFO, no GAC, blah, blah.

I only have 4 fish and I do make sure they are well fed, but not to the tune of 3 times a day. Right now everyone eats once a day in the evenings and I don't skimp on the amount of food they get to eat.

I just made the switch to LEDs hoping that would solve my problem, so the tank is still in light acclimation mode.

 

[jimmy n]

I'm thinking I might jump on this bandwagon and go for a ride. I've tried everything, including my most recent switch from T5s to a $1,400 LED fixture. I can bleach anything and my corals barely grow.

They start out with beautiful dark, rich and sometimes subtle colors and turn into dull, drab shadows of what they were when purchased. I've tried everything from lower Alkalinity, adjusting the photoperiod, different bulbs, GFO, GAC, no GFO, no GAC, blah, blah.

I only have 4 fish and I do make sure they are well fed, but not to the tune of 3 times a day. Right now everyone eats once a day in the evenings and I don't skimp on the amount of food they get to eat.

I just made the switch to LEDs hoping that would solve my problem, so the tank is still in light acclimation mode.

Which led fixture? How big a tank?

Love this discourse. I've always felt that you needed to feed your fish to feed your tank. Tanu always had insanely overstocked tanks with insane coral growth and coral.

 

[afernandez]

I'm thinking I might jump on this bandwagon and go for a ride. I've tried everything, including my most recent switch from T5s to a $1,400 LED fixture. I can bleach anything and my corals barely grow.

They start out with beautiful dark, rich and sometimes subtle colors and turn into dull, drab shadows of what they were when purchased. I've tried everything from lower Alkalinity, adjusting the photoperiod, different bulbs, GFO, GAC, no GFO, no GAC, blah, blah.

I only have 4 fish and I do make sure they are well fed, but not to the tune of 3 times a day. Right now everyone eats once a day in the evenings and I don't skimp on the amount of food they get to eat.

I just made the switch to LEDs hoping that would solve my problem, so the tank is still in light acclimation mode.

At points doing too much or too little ...lol this hobby will drive us crazy
Best advise I was given was "find you balance of import and export of nutrients"
And to me it made perfect sense at the time lol. I had an "why dint I think of that" moment lol . Find a balance where your not stripping your nutrients and not over Pollute your tank (a sweet spot) monitor your parameters. Also a thing I learn was Sps love light but not as much as ppl say..IME start off in the low end and work your self up.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

Which led fixture? How big a tank?

It's a 2 x 145w Hyperion S above a 55g. I just got the light last week. So far, this fixture is amazing. The tank looks incredible compared to what it did with T5s and I haven't even changed any of the 9 channels to tweak the colors.......yet.

 

[Alex T.]

At points doing too much or too little ...lol this hobby will drive us crazy
Best advise I was given was "find you balance of import and export of nutrients"
And to me it made perfect sense at the time lol. I had an "why dint I think of that" moment lol . Find a balance where your not stripping your nutrients and not over Pollute your tank (a sweet spot) monitor your parameters. Also a thing I learn was Sps love light but not as much as ppl say..IME start off in the low end and work your self up.

So true, but the lighting part I'm beginning to disagree with. After my nutrients began to climb, I found that the more light I give them the better they respond. I was always amazed at how some people had beautiful colors and slammed their tanks with so much light. This is where the import and export is important. Even though some people have slightly dirty water, many are feeding a lot and exporting a lot. Trying to keep a bit of dirt without import and export seems to not work that well when the lighting isn't intense enough or long enough in duration. It's the balance. In my last tank when I was carbon dosing, my best colors and growth came from 4.5 hours of 400 watt bulbs and 10 hours of vho actinic. When I upped the lighting duration, many of the corals paled, receded or died. This was the only changed variable. In my current tank, 7 hours of halide seems to be a sweet spot. I may try a little more in the next few months just to see how things respond.

It's a 2 x 145w Hyperion S above a 55g. I just got the light last week. So far, this fixture is amazing. The tank looks incredible compared to what it did with T5s and I haven't even changed any of the 9 channels to tweak the colors.......yet.

Be careful with those LED's. I know the very fixture you have, and someone I speak often with had a lot of problems finding the sweet spot between making SPS happy and bleaching them. Go slow. LED tanks seem to do better when they're more dim to our eyes than a comparably lit halide or t5 tank.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

Photos were taken with an iPhone that doesn't do a very good job, but you get the idea.

Just a few examples of my poor corals....

Misc Acropora when purchased (10-21-12)





Misc Acropora (11-30-13)




Bennet Tort when purchased (1-26-13)




Bennet Tort (11-30-13)






Valida when purchased (1-23-13)




Valida (11-30-13)




Orange Crush Acans when purchased (4-27-13)




Orange Crush Acans (11-30-13) - You can see the bleached Purple Bonzai Acropora in the background.




Aussie Purple Hammer Coral when purchased (8-9-12)




Aussie Purple Hammer Coral (11-30-13)

 

[Spyderturbo007]

Rainbow Montipora when purchased (10-5-13)




Rainbow Montipora (10-31-13)

 

[SPotter]

spyder......I am that person AlexT mentioned about with the same light as you. I had one of the original pandora models that came out. Be very careful when raising the intensity on those lights especially with the 145w panels. There is a very fine line between enough and too much light on them. Resist the urge to increase the intensity. Alex and I have been discussing dirty water tanks for a while now and I am also a firm believer in less intense lighting with longer photo periods over more intense lighting with shorter photo periods.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

spyder......I am that person AlexT mentioned about with the same light as you. I had one of the original pandora models that came out. Be very careful when raising the intensity on those lights especially with the 145w panels. There is a very fine line between enough and too much light on them. Resist the urge to increase the intensity. Alex and I have been discussing dirty water tanks for a while now and I am also a firm believer in less intense lighting with longer photo periods over more intense lighting with shorter photo periods.

Awesome. Thanks SPotter. I might be picking your brain about this fixture once I get things rolling.

Yorgos advised me to go with the following settings for the fixture to start:

180 minute sunrise starting at 1pm
Daylight from 4pm to 8pm at a max intensity of 40%
180 minute sunset starting at 8pm

He said that as I progress I can adjust both the max intensity and / or increase the Daylight section by reducing the sunset / sunrise duration. Is that similar to how you started?

 

[Alex T.]

On another site, someone did an experiment where they were successfully growing out frags with LED lights until the SPS started to branch out and begin the transition to colonies. As soon as shaded areas in the coral began, the coral began bleaching. He then put his halide system back on and the coral recovered very nicely. No other parameters or equipment were changed. He was deducing that although par may be strong enough, there are simply not enough LED's in most commercially available units to evenly spread over an area. If part of a coral receives a different spectrum of light, or much less par, it may simply start lightening up or browning from not enough light, while inches away the light might be perfect or too bright.

Even though LED's are a point source like metal halide, their spread is simply not there if you research Sanjay Joshi's tests on LED fixtures. Most SPS tanks would need double the recommended amount of fixtures to see comparable colors and growth. A 250 or 400 watt halide in a good reflector easily covers a 24 x 24 inch area. Some can even do well up to 30" with nice spread. IMO,this makes it very difficult to find a sweet spot for corals' lighting needs when using LED only. Looking at t5 only tanks, it still appears to me that they are the superior lighting choice in their ability to totally illuminate the entirety of a coral's pigments, leaving very few shaded areas. I run halides on my 195, but in my 100 gallon tank that will be arriving soon, I'm going to switch it up and do t5 only.

Like Steve said, go slow, and careful with upping the intensity.

 

[bigbpro916]

wow nice tank!!!

 

[Tek]

Photos were taken with an iPhone that doesn't do a very good job, but you get the idea.

Just a few examples of my poor corals....

Have you tried feeding coral foods or dosing aminos/acid?

I started to feed my corals daily and dosed small amounts daily instead of 2-3X a week and have had good improvements on growth and color.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

Have you tried feeding coral foods or dosing aminos/acid?

I started to feed my corals daily and dosed small amounts daily instead of 2-3X a week and have had good improvements on growth and color.

I actually bought one of the KZ Nano Power Packages when BRS had their Black Friday sale, but haven't started using it yet. I feed Oyster Feast a few times a week, but that was all I've done.

 

[SPotter]

Awesome. Thanks SPotter. I might be picking your brain about this fixture once I get things rolling.

Yorgos advised me to go with the following settings for the fixture to start:

180 minute sunrise starting at 1pm
Daylight from 4pm to 8pm at a max intensity of 40%
180 minute sunset starting at 8pm

He said that as I progress I can adjust both the max intensity and / or increase the Daylight section by reducing the sunset / sunrise duration. Is that similar to how you started?

sending you a pm so we dont derail this thread.

 

[Tek]

I never had luck with oyster feast and all it did was cause my tank to be slime coated. I use coral frenzy or reef chili daily.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

I never had luck with oyster feast and all it did was cause my tank to be slime coated. I use coral frenzy or reef chili daily.

Really? By slime coated, are you referring to a bacterial outbreak? I have fuzzy stuff on my rocks that seems to be a bacterial bloom. I've upped my skimming and be doing more frequent water changes, but I'm wondering if the Oyster Feast could be the source.

Isn't Reef Chili primarily for LPS? I thought the particles were too big for SPS?

 

[Tek]

It is not cyano but looks almost like diatoms. It sticks to my glass and rocks. Once I stop oyster feast it goes away and I have heard from friends that have had the same issue. My SPS love the coral frenzy and reef chili. They open more PE immediately. Now I am experimenting with the reef energy products.