The fun begins! 180g build.

[shawna1972]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15595764#post15595764 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PCIALF
I have them at both ends for a couple reasons first the incoming from the sump because the pickup is under water and I don't want to drain sump to work on pump, second the outgoing because my sump is in the cellar and some water could still be in the lines but also if I need to slow the flow down a bit I can with that valve.

and yes 2 holes in each corner is correct, 1 hole in each corner is the drain and one in each corner is the return so basically you have 2 lines as drains to the sump and 1 line from the pump then split with a Y to the 2 returns

I hope this helps

Yes it does thank you. Can I do the Y for the returns with spa flex somehow?

 

[shawna1972]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15599121#post15599121 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Henry Colf
I've been following your thread glad you finally found a tank. Looking forward to the build and pics

Thanks,I know it seemed like forever.I just hope it comes together and my transfer goes smooth (with no loss)

 

[shawna1972]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15599121#post15599121 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Henry Colf
I've been following your thread glad you finally found a tank. Looking forward to the build and pics

Following your as well Besides the coral I'm actually looking forward to seeing how the black sand is going to look ,I bet it's gonna be sick though

 

[mikerads]

I treat the spa flex just like hard PVC. I use the same fittings as PVC. For example if you want to use 3/4" spa flex, just buy 3/4" PVC elbows, T's, Y's, unions, etc. I put Purple Stuff on the spa flex just like PVC as well as the inside PVC fitting. Then glue the end of the spa flex and then stick them together with a slight twist.

Always remember to dry fit everything before glueing!

 

[shawna1972]

Ok sounds easy enough, now I just have to get know the fittings and what they are used for ect..
Thanks again

 

[shawna1972]

better pic of the sump
<a href="http://s678.photobucket.com/albums/vv149/shawna1972/?action=view&current=Sump-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv149/shawna1972/Sump-1.jpg" border="0" alt="sump"></a>

 

[shawna1972]

Scary pic of the pump ......I hope its a good one?

<a href="http://s678.photobucket.com/albums/vv149/shawna1972/?action=view&current=pump.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv149/shawna1972/pump.jpg" border="0" alt="Return pump"></a>

 

[shawna1972]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15601006#post15601006 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shawna1972
Scary pic of the pump ......I hope its a good one?

<a href="http://s678.photobucket.com/albums/vv149/shawna1972/?action=view&current=pump.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv149/shawna1972/pump.jpg" border="0" alt="Return pump"></a>

Is that rusty looking stuff normal?

 

[mikerads]

Shawna,
Here is a page with the specs on the pump. http://tinyurl.com/nujbow

It looks like 70 watts @ 1100 GPH with a 1" fitting. I do not have any experience with this pump. The outside housing should be plastic. I am not sure it it is rust or just muck. You should be able to unscrew the plastic part and soak in a vinegar bath. You might be able to see more inside if you take that part off.

If you notice, the fittings for the pump are threaded. I would suggest putting a true union ball valve between the sump/skimmer and return pump and then between the pump and spa flex return lines. This is a true union ball valve, this one come with both slip and threaded fittings: http://tinyurl.com/nxyqaf

I am sure someone will chime in with some place to get them locally. I know Home Depot does not carry them, but Lowes might. Perhaps a LFS? If you can't find a true union ball valve, you can just purchase unions and ball valves with the appropriate threaded/slip fittings. If you go that route it should go something like this: sump-ball valve-union-pump-union-ball valve-spa flex.

What you want to accomplish is the ability to remove the pump and/or skimmer for maintenance. The valves will also allow you to dial back the flow. But with a 180 with two overflows, you probably wont need to dial it back much.

How this helps! Can someone with more experience please confirm my thinking on the pump and unions?

 

[mikerads]

Oh yeah, and I would suggest putting the pump on a piece of rug or some sort of soft material to cut down on the vibration noise from the pump.

 

[PCIALF]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15600298#post15600298 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shawna1972
Yes it does thank you. Can I do the Y for the returns with spa flex somehow?

It is best to not y the returns have both returns separately drain into the sump

 

[shawna1972]

Thanks John ,
I want to Y the return from the pump right?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

good advice so far.
You can split return lines from pump if you wish.

 

[shawna1972]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15601563#post15601563 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mikerads
Shawna,
Here is a page with the specs on the pump. http://tinyurl.com/nujbow

It looks like 70 watts @ 1100 GPH with a 1" fitting. I do not have any experience with this pump. The outside housing should be plastic. I am not sure it it is rust or just muck. You should be able to unscrew the plastic part and soak in a vinegar bath. You might be able to see more inside if you take that part off.

If you notice, the fittings for the pump are threaded. I would suggest putting a true union ball valve between the sump/skimmer and return pump and then between the pump and spa flex return lines. This is a true union ball valve, this one come with both slip and threaded fittings: http://tinyurl.com/nxyqaf

I am sure someone will chime in with some place to get them locally. I know Home Depot does not carry them, but Lowes might. Perhaps a LFS? If you can't find a true union ball valve, you can just purchase unions and ball valves with the appropriate threaded/slip fittings. If you go that route it should go something like this: sump-ball valve-union-pump-union-ball valve-spa flex.

What you want to accomplish is the ability to remove the pump and/or skimmer for maintenance. The valves will also allow you to dial back the flow. But with a 180 with two overflows, you probably wont need to dial it back much.

How this helps! Can someone with more experience please confirm my thinking on the pump and unions?

Thanks Mike

 

[shawna1972]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15601572#post15601572 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PCIALF
It is best to not y the returns have both returns separately drain into the sump

John after reading that again,You meant drains right? I just want to make sure were on the same page ?
And for the return pump seeing as I have 2 holes on each corrner for returns and only one pump I have to tee off right?.....Plz bare with me on these questions I know they must sound really dumb lol

 

[shawna1972]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15606434#post15606434 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
good advice so far.
You can split return lines from pump if you wish.

Thanks Gary,
That's what Im trying to figure out is if I have to.

 

[PCIALF]

Yes Shawna you Y from the pump to the tank and the drains you want to leave separate and have 2 drains going into your sump

you are welcome to come and see mine anytime if you would like i am using spaflex and plumbed exactly how you should plumb yours

 

[tmz]

Hi glad you got your tank. It can be overwhelming but if you go step by step you'll be fine.

Starting with the pump. I read the specs . That pump will move 1109 gallons of water horizontally but will only deliver 840 gph at a height of 5 feet(1.5 meters). It has a maximum head of 6 meters( about 20 feet). That means at 20 feet or a bit less there will be no water.Unfortunately the spec sheet posted doesn't give the output numbers in between 5 ft and 20 feet(the performance curve). Incrementally as you go higher than 5 feet they will drop from 840 gph to 0 at 20 feet.

You need an exchange of 3 to 5x the volume of your tank. So you need to deliver about 600 to 1000 gallons of water to your tank. In my opinion an exchange at 5x volume is much better than less.

The amount of water the pump can push will also be limited by friction loss in addition to the vertical head.The amount of friction loss wil be governed by the number of turns ,restrictive fittings and the diameter of the pipe. Using curves(via spaflex as noted earlier) instead of right angles helps. Bigger pipe or large diameter spa flex if avaliable is better than smaller. These approaches can reduce the extra loss of return flow due to friction but wont eleiminate it. There is no way to reduce the vertical head loss other than to bring your sump up higher and reduce the vertical distance between the water line in the sump and the waerline in the tank.

So let's say you need 800 gph exchange,for example( 950 gph would be better and 600 minimally acceptable). Even if you put your sump on a stand , you will still probably need to go up 4 feet to the floor from the top of the water line in the sump and then at least another four feet to the top of the water line in the tank. If you loose around 50 gph to friction loss( this could be more) you will not get the 790gph since your vertical head will be in the 8 to 9 foot range and the pump will only push 840gph minus say 50 forfriction loss or 790 gph to 5 feet. So you may only get 500gph or so,maybe a less , maybe more depending on the performance curve of the pump and it'solperating condition.

You may be able to get a more complete spec from the manufacturer.

Assuming it is working well the pump may give you a marginally acceptable exchange rate from a basement sump if you raise it off the floor and use larger diameter return piping up to the fiitings on the pump and close to the tank.In any case it's a pretty small pump for the application you are planning.

 

[shawna1972]

Thanks Tom,

That's dissapointing! I kind of have to stick with this pump for at least another month though. Tom, whats a good external pump that will give me a good turnover for under $200.00?
Maybe I can get a trade /with cash ? This really sucks because I just got burned on a pump 2 months ago that I purchased on drygoods
(I would of had a back up)
I think the nice ones always get screwed lol
Anyways one of my cats knew I was planning an upgrade and decided she was going to get an UR infection and become dehydrated so she has been in the vet for 3 days now and guess what (it's contagious!) I have 6 cats lol Unreal!
So I guess any back up money I have set aside is gone now and will have to wait a month and if more cats come down with this may be 6 months lol
ahhh cant wait to pick her up tomorrow and get the bill Sooo fun!

 

[tmz]

You can try that pump since it's close and see how it works. Just raise your sump and use larger diameter return piping. If it doesn't carry enough water you can replace it. Plumb it in with unions so you can easily switch off to another pump if necessary.

You may find a good used pump in the equipment sale forum. I would only recommend an external Iwaki or Sequence pump since these are the ones with which I have personal experience. Perhaps you can find one in the used equipment for sale forum.