The Great Blue Debate

[MUCHO REEF]

Surely it's a matter of personal taste and aesthetic appeal, but how many of you prefer the 20 K Metal Halide look over 10 K , 12 K, 14 K and 15 K with or without actinics? "So why yah asking that one Mucho". Here's why. Of course many factors will determine growth, accelerated growth and appearance. Some prefer growth over appearance and vice versa, but some want both. Bulb type ( K value, Par, Se or DE), wattage and the ballast are the determining factors for achieving ones "personal taste and aesthetic appeal". We've all heard that 20 K's are just too blue, however the fluorescence is out of this world, especially when it comes to displaying ones zooanthid collection. "But it's not natural looking", is it? For all of you certified divers out there, answer this question. Is the sand white, light blue or 20 K blue? I know depth plays and important factor in coloration on the ocean floor, but the question remains. What do you guys/gals think? Hope we can keep this civil.

Mucho

 

[Azurel]

Good question....I personally like the 250w Hamilton 14k supplemented with VHO (2 03's and a white actinic) at first you would think that is going to be really blue but it isn't. I find that this light combo has given me the best color(fluorescence) great growth. I think the original purpose of the 20ks wither it be MH or fluorescent was to give the effect of being at greater depth and still getting a good amount of par into the water....More for a deeper looking tank that is trying to mimic 50ft and deeper.....I have had really good growth from my light combination not just zoanthids but LPS and inverts(anemones). Gonna be an interesting debate.....should provide some good info to.

 

[surfnvb7]

i've done the XM 20k, the XM 15k, and now the new Iwasaki 15k Aqua2 (all 175w SE, magnetic ballast), and super actinic VHO's.

By far my favorite bulbs were the XM 15k's. Gave me the best color and best growth. Only thing I didn't like with them is that they didnt seem to last very long. One bulb lasted 8 months, the other 6 months before a huge change in the spectrum. Despite the whole low PAR debate, I had extraordinary color and decent growth from all my corals, esspecially my SPS. The XM 15k is however a good bit dimer than the XM 20k, opposite of what you would think.

The XM 20k is just too blue. Gives awesome flourescence, and great color to mostly everything. It does seem to wash out some colors though. Very bright, but growth of SPS seemed to come to a dead hault, as well as other corals. Definitely makes zoas look sweet!

Now I have the new Iwasaki Aqua2 bulb everyone is raving about. I can see why alot of sps freaks like the bulb. I myself can't stand it anymore. I have it paired up with VHO's. And my zoas have virtually no color anymore. It just doesn't seem to make anything flouresce that great at all. The only things really responding to the new light is my SPS that are getting some really bright tips. But thats just my opinion, its still a great bulb, and super bright white, just not for me.

I dont seem to like the VHO super actinics either. They give off such an artificial color, I dunno it just makes things look strange.

If I could fit 3 175w MH's over my tank, I think I'd go with 2x20k bulbs, and then the Iwasaki in the middle.

I'd like to hear more about the Ushio 14k and 20k's.

I agree with Azurel, even though the Hamilton bulbs have horrible spectrum analysis, I've seen a couple people with these bulbs over deep/large tanks, and their stuff looks amazing.

I think the big key with lighting, is just to keep things the same over a long period of time. Too many people change their bulbs at 6months or so to a new bulb. The tanks with the best color/growth I have seen, have been using the same bulbs for almost 2 years. Some things take alot longer than 6months to fully acclimate to our tanks. And by changing the types of bulbs too much we are slowing that process down.

I used to have a planted tank, so I favor color over growth any day. Slow growth is fine for me, I have no problem with it. I like things to look crazy, and anything to keep me from constantly putting my hands in the tank to trim stuff.

 

[CoralNutz]

Well I prefer VHO's... IC660 with half 10K aquasuns and half Super Actinic for my zoas. (URI bulbs)

I really don't care for the 20K halides as I think they are way to blue. For me I don't really think about what's natural looking or not, but what looks best for me. With the 20K's it just makes everything all blue, even the brown polyps. It's hard for me to focus on stuff and don't see the real details in the corals.

15K is right on the border line. One of my friends has 400W XM15K's on his frag tank and I have to say, everything looks SWEET. But again, like with the 20K, my eyes just don't focus good with all that blue and I don't see all the same details in the corals.

The 14K bulbs I have seen looked sweet and they didn't have any supplimentation. But I like to have vho actinics as I think they make the colors pop just the way I like. So that is why on my next tank, since I want to try to start keeping some more sps I am thinking that I am going to go with 250W XM 10K halides with URI Super Actinic VHOs. I would just go with some 14K bulbs and no vho, but I like to have just the VHO's for an hour in the morning and an hour at night.

Great idea for a thread Mucho, should be a good one. I think one thing we can all agree on, it sure is great that there are SO MANY different combonations of lighing out there so everyone can get just that look they are looking for since it really is a matter of personal taste.

 

[Reef Junkie]

I love my 20k 400 watt Radium. I've been using it for years now. I have supplimentation with 2 actinic PC's as well, but the bulb looks great all by itself. In a week I will be removing the supplimentation and just using the MH bulb on my main display. I am adding a large Luminarc Reflector to help distribute more light into my tank.

I have done the least experimenting with different bulbs as compared to some of my friends. Yet, I always see them gravitate towards the same bulb; XM 10k. Hands down has one of the highest PAR ratings of any MH bulb. Yet, I'm not a big fan of it's color. I've noticed the highest growth with SPS with that bulb.
But if your tank is running a 20k and you switch to a XM 10k, be careful that you don't burn your corals up.

Good thread.

 

[twon8]

I have tried the 10k xm, not for me. I am sure if i ran 3 vho actinics with them it would be fine, but i don't have the room over my 90 to do that. i tried and really like the 14k bulbs, and may ditch the vhos on the 90 and see how things go.

 

[msman825]

GREAT THREAD, AND INFO GUY'S

 

[gflat65]

I've tried 12K SE 175W w/VHO (Nice color, no growth and not really too blue for me), 10K Ushio 175W SE with VHO (good growth and decent color), 14K Phoenix 250W DE with VHO (not on the tank long enough to determine growth-colors popped, esp. a pulsing blue tort), and 10K AB 250W DE's with VHO's (not a fan of the color for fluorescing (sp?) corals, but sps develop some really nice color-almost can't tell the VHO's are even on...).

The color down in the ocean is not really matched by any bulbs I've seen yet. IMO, it is somewhere between a 20K MH and VHO's (probably closer to the 20K) and changes by depth (of course). The sand looks different depending on how close you are to it. I would say that from a distance, it is closer to a 14K-20K MH, though.

 

[pondfrog]

I have found the best of both worlds is to run the high PAR bulbs and adjust the color to your taste with actinic supplementation, wether you prefer T5, VHO or PC. I currently run XM 10ks with VHO supplemented to give a nice white "real" color with enough blue added to give the corals color. But in all fairness my taste definately shies away from making my tank look like a blacklight rollerrink where the corals glow! So, take it with my bias.

 

[ReefWifey]

Hey,

I'm really enjoying this thread because I don't know very much about lighting. I think this is an appropriate place to ask a 'blue' question, so here goes: Is actinic lighting just for adding color, or do the zoas actually need it? I guess a better question is, do they just change the appearance of coral, or do they actually cause the coral to change colors? Here's why I'm asking. I'm getting ready to set up an 18 gallon tank. I have a hanging type 150 metal halide (14k) I think. I'm concerned that if I hang that above the tank, I won't have any room for actinic. So I'm thinking about buying a different fixture for it.

Question: I'm looking at the Sunpods, and the current models have 14k in either 70 or 150, and they have what they call 'lunar lights', LEDs, half blue, half white. Is that blue led actinic lighting? I'm also looking at the Coralife Aqualight Pro with 150W 10k, and 2X65W actinic PC. It is a bit pricier, and I'm wondering if I'll see a big difference in a tank with mostly zoas, and a few LPS here and there.

As far as my experience, and to get the newbie view out there: I've got 30+ zoa frags in a 12g nano with stock PC 50/50 lighting, and my stuff looks great (to me) and is growing faster than what I expected. I used to think PC lighting is kind of low end route and not as good for the frags but I'm pretty pleased with the appearance and growth rate of my zoas. On the 18g I want to go with more light because it is a much deeper tank, plus I'll likely put some other corals in there.

Good thread!
Kam

 

[mfinn]

I really prefer the Hamilton 14k bulb with some actinic pc bulbs.
IMO it's what we like to look at in our own tanks.

 

[AngieN.]

I have a Hamilton 14k pendant over my tank and really like the look. I think it really makes the colors pop compared to the 50/50 PC only I had before. I do not have any actinic supplementation with it. It is a little on the white side, but with a smaller footprint, it really leaves no room for added bulbs and I personally don't feel I need them. It is all personal opinion and what I like may not be what someone else might find ideal.

 

[Zoozooman]

14 K phoenix and t5's

 

[maggiesaqsup]

10 k XM and actinic vho is my personal taste .

 

[gflat65]

pondfrog, is that XM 10K SE's on an HQI ballast?

Reefwifey,

The LED's likely have a spike near the 420 nm range, so it will cause some fluorescence. Being an LED, it will probably not show up too much with the other lights on. It is more for viewing at night. I like getting up in the middle of the night to a blue LED tank. You can actually see stuff moving around in the tank. The actinic lighting is not just for show, though the sun is closer to 5K. 20K MH will make fluorescence to a coral, as well as color it up some, but a lower K bulb will make certain corals really color up. Fluorescence is what you see under the blue lights. Coloring up is the color of the coral out of the tank in any light. Softies and alot of LPS seem to fluoresce more than color up, though they will color up, too. SPS color up more than they fluoresce. Have I confused you yet? This kind of what I was saying in my post. My 250W DE 10K AB's make my SPS really color up over time. They develop colors that I don't see on the same corals from the same parent colonies under different lighting, but it seems to be from what appears to be a sunburn on the coral. They do not lend any fluorescence, though. My zoas change color because of the MH, but really show their color under my VHO's. Actinic VHO's are my favorite color enhancer. You don't need 'actinic' lighting for your corals (even a 5500K bulb will help coral growth tremendously in most cases and has some of the lower end of the spectrum, but likely not enough to allow fluroescence), but it sure makes them look cooler. Don't you love long sentences with a lot of parenthenses?

 

[impur]

14k hammy. Perfect combo of white/blue and you still get the flouresence on the corals. Great bulb!!!

 

[skyfireblaze]

I just started to run a 14K Phoenix bulb with a Blue+ and actinic T5's. I wasn't too excited about it before firing it up, thought it would be too much blue, too 20K for me, but it's been great.

 

[twon8]

i took the vho off my 90 today

the zoas don't glow quite as much, but i think i like the overall color better, not purple on eveything. i may throw in a t5 for some dawn/dusk effect, but that will be a little while.

 

[cwegescheide]

Is actinic lighting just for adding color, or do the zoas actually need it? I guess a better question is, do they just change the appearance of coral, or do they actually cause the coral to change colors?

Yes the lighting will effect the corals (zoo's etc). For instance, I had some zoo's that WERE a nice blue ring with a copper center. Really pretty. After I put them in my tank they faded soo bad that I cannot recognize them from my initial pictures that I took of them. Some color strains are not as effected by strong lighting but as for zoo's MOST are affected. I know a lot of people that have dedicated zoo tanks with lighting more appropriate for them to retain the nice coloration (VHO's or T'5s, not halides)

 

[EvilMel]

So I have the XM 20K 400W bulbs only (no supplements) over my current tank and I really like the color of some stuff. I don't mind the "blue" look that a lot of people complain about, but what I do notice is that I don't seem to get some stuff to color up as well as my friends in the club.

I am wondering if my ballasts could be partially to blame. For example, my friend has the exact same bulbs (only they are 250W rather than 400W) but he runs them with electronic ballasts rather than the ghetto magnetic/industrial ballasts that I have. The coloration in his tank is amazing! But in mine...blue never looks very blue. My tort is as green as it can be...still a nice color but definitely not blue. On the plus side...I get great growth out of my sps, which is something you don't often see with just 20K bulbs.

On the other hand, I seem to do well with pink colors on both sps and zoos...just not blues. We'll see once I get some "tubs blues" though. I am just highly curious about the difference my lights will make.