The 'infamous' named polyps

[roblack]

You are right, and scammers are another story, I am referring to honest dealers. In fact, a lot of honest dealers have been going down the tubes lately. Scammers and the bad economy may be too much for some to survive.

What sponsors are hyping their corals on RC? Hobbyists are the ones hyping stuff on RC from what I see. I'm guilty of that too, love to post pics of new stuff, old stuff, whatever. Is that wrong?

 

[pjbusby]

PauChi: I love the color of the green polyps often refered to as "Nuc. Greens". And I totaly agree about the name game. When I go to the LFS I never use "names", I just say those red with blue skirts or whatever. Only once have I had that met with somthing like "ring of fire" or somthin' like that, and then they were exspensive compared to the normal price. I personaly am only concerned with coloration, and size and health. As far as names go I think the whole thing stinks and nothing more than marketing ploys.

roblack: I hope the economy doesn't end a lot of folks's (scammers or not) endeavors in the hobby.

 

[jksteele010]

My solution locally is fairly simple. I will go and buy a coral that say costs $60 and then let it grow to a size that it can be fragged, then I'll sell one frag to help pay for itself and after that, I will donate future to other local reefers. Helps to show other people that they don't have to pay high prices and maybe if enough people do it then it will force LFS to lower their prices to compete.

 

[notoriousreef]

Wow is all i can say.

I have been into saltwater now a total of 2 months. I have a small tank and love polyps, they are what got me into salt water. I have a local LPS that I have bought all my stuff from. Being that I just got the tank I added my first polyp in my tank about a week ago. Going online and to the local pet store I thought that paying $30 per polyp was just the normal. The chose I made in my tank had nothing to do with the name of it I just like the colors of this polyp and bought and paid that price because I, like many others new to the hobby I am sure, had no clue there were sites like this.

After spending time on here and reading just about everything I now have a greater understanding of what this hobby should be really about. I have had many other expensive hobbies in my day and have never seen an community were other people are willing to share a piece of what the hobby is really about at little to no cost. This is just simply amazing.This hobby is unique, I have never been into something that should be about preserving wildlife, having patients and sharing. I get off topic but I guess it just really shows how the general public does not understand how this works. I just went to the LPS to get a cool tank, and did not really understand. I think this is why you are seeing these super high prices. I think there are people out there that are just wanting to flip a quick buck. They understand there are people out there that dont understand or that dont get care about the true meaning of this hobby.

I want to thank you guys for opening my eyes and showing me that there are people out there that are just trying to get there money and that there are people out there that want to share an experience.

sorry for the long post :lol:


Thank for making me a better reefer,
Derek Connelly :bum:

 

[dalston]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14583939#post14583939 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by notoriousreef
Wow is all i can say.

I have been into saltwater now a total of 2 months. I have a small tank and love polyps, they are what got me into salt water. I have a local LPS that I have bought all my stuff from. Being that I just got the tank I added my first polyp in my tank about a week ago. Going online and to the local pet store I thought that paying $30 per polyp was just the normal. The chose I made in my tank had nothing to do with the name of it I just like the colors of this polyp and bought and paid that price because I, like many others new to the hobby I am sure, had no clue there were sites like this.

After spending time on here and reading just about everything I now have a greater understanding of what this hobby should be really about. I have had many other expensive hobbies in my day and have never seen an community were other people are willing to share a piece of what the hobby is really about at little to no cost. This is just simply amazing.This hobby is unique, I have never been into something that should be about preserving wildlife, having patients and sharing. I get off topic but I guess it just really shows how the general public does not understand how this works. I just went to the LPS to get a cool tank, and did not really understand. I think this is why you are seeing these super high prices. I think there are people out there that are just wanting to flip a quick buck. They understand there are people out there that dont understand or that dont get care about the true meaning of this hobby.

I want to thank you guys for opening my eyes and showing me that there are people out there that are just trying to get there money and that there are people out there that want to share an experience.

sorry for the long post :lol:


Thank for making me a better reefer,
Derek Connelly :bum:

Derek,

First off I'd like to say thank you for standing up and sharing :thumbsup:

For most of us, reefing is a way of life and us here on RC are one big family, although many people have different opinions, for the most part we look out for each other and everything discussed is for the greater good of the hobby.

I'm glad you have read into this and like you say, its the new reefers that are the most effected. Don't think paying elevated prices are the only way to obtain beautiful zoa's, there is more than one way to skin a cat (for lack of a better phrase) :artist:

Just a tip...check out your local reef club forum here on RC, many people will trade and sell to help the hobby, not to make $$$.
I see you are in Iowa which I am not familiar with but check the below link, maybe this is near you?

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=247

Happy reefing!

David

 

[PauChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14582389#post14582389 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by roblack

Keep in mind, if it were not for the few people that are making money off this "hobby" all of our tanks would be barren.

All my coral collections are not from any of these "few money making people" but from my own personal taste of selective corals and NOT from what the Flavor of the Moment is.
Most of my corals are from past shipments or has been in the LFS' holding tanks for a while and the one that catches my attention will eventually reside in my display tank.
Personally I like to have something that nobody would even think about having in their tanks but it has to be different in terms of color and health. Sort of like a custom collection and uniqueness as well.
All I see are reefers with frags of Chalices and Aussie Acans all displayed in the front end on the bottom sandbed or sitting on eggcrates somewhere glued to the side of their display tanks which looks like totally messy and disorganized .... IMHO :fun5: These frags should be in frag tanks.

I personally like MUCHO REEF 's Quote: Anyone can build a reef, the greater challenge..........................Is to grow one.

Paul

 

[roblack]

Wow, guess I should take all the frags out of my main tank and give away pieces/polyps of all my LEs and rare corals? I agree that this hobby/cult gets crazy, but to get on one's high horse and proclaim what others should do is comical. The insinuation is that a lot of us go out and buy whatever new named coral is out there, and that is all that matters. Then we sell if for as much as possible for as little of a piece as possible, and then scour our tanks with tidbits of what once were corals. Many of my friends and myself are into rare corals, are generous, and have done their part to further the hobby. Reading this thread you would think they were bad people who should leave reefing and become fashion moguls. LOL! Lots of negativity being shared here, gonna move along now. Hope ya'll get back to what matters, enjoying life and reefing. Good day.

 

[PauChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14585921#post14585921 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by roblack
Wow, guess I should take all the frags out of my main tank and give away pieces/polyps of all my LEs and rare corals?

All I'm suggesting was Frags SHOULD remain in Frag tank(s) Only until they're (fully) grown out to be placed in our display tank in the near future and never did I insist nor apply a "twist arm" tactic that everyone should giveaway their Prized collections as Freebie ....

Negativity ... nah I don't think so .. IMHO.

Paul

 

[jefathome]

There is only one way to solve the problem...
People that want to make a change need to aquire some of the "named" polyps and then start giving them away for SUPER low prices. Darth Mauls? How about 5 heads for $10?
PPE's? 2 heads for $5

I often think that I can justify buying something that is expensive b/c I can frag it and get my $$ back, but I'd rather buy 1 head for $30, grow it into 7 heads, save one and sell the other 6 for $5 each. thus I get a lower price on my one head and I'm still lowering market value on the others.

If some one can get them cheaper from you, then demand for the higer priced ones will go down. As the demand goes down, the price will follow across the industry.

There is a well respected member of this community here in the SoCal area (will remain nameless) that always has great stuff, but his prices are insane. $70 for a 2-head Maul? Forgettaboutit!

I offered to trade him some equally rare items that he did not have and he just said "I don't have space for it. Sale only... no trades". ***? I know he has a huge grow system.

My only issue with the sale of cheap frags is that it sucks to have to stay at home waiting for someone to show up, just to sell them a $5 frag. I think I'm going to require that they buy a minimum of $20. If they get extra's of something, then hopefully b/c they paid a low amount for it, they will in turn sell them for a low amount, or give one to a friend. Thus lowering the market price as well.

Everyone that complains has the ability to help bring about change!!

 

[PauChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14586473#post14586473 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jefathome
I offered to trade him some equally rare items that he did not have and he just said "I don't have space for it. Sale only... no trades". ***? I know he has a huge grow system.

Unfortunately Money Talks .....

Everyone that complains has the ability to help bring about change!!

If Only for the Better Benefit of This Hobby .....

Paul

 

[dalston]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14585921#post14585921 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by roblack
Wow, guess I should take all the frags out of my main tank and give away pieces/polyps of all my LEs and rare corals? I agree that this hobby/cult gets crazy, but to get on one's high horse and proclaim what others should do is comical.

Reading this thread you would think they were bad people who should leave reefing and become fashion moguls. LOL! Lots of negativity being shared here, gonna move along now. Hope ya'll get back to what matters, enjoying life and reefing. Good day.

I agree that nobody should ever be told how to enjoy the hobby and no one should say what people should or shouldn't buy. I do however believe that people should be aware of both sides of the story. There are many experienced and educated reefers (like yourself) that are fully aware of both sides, I have nothing against this and what you buy and how much you spend is your choice and your choice only. All this thread was intended to do was share my EXPERIENCE and OPINION.

I am sorry that you feel like I am making out people to be bad and trying to lure people away from the hobby. That was/is not my intention at all. I just think there are 2 sides to every situation, in this one, the case for promoting high price polyp sales is everywhere. Its not so much for the other side so I am just sharing my opposing opinion and that is all.

Thank you for your input in this thread roblack.

David.

 

[dmorel]

There is only one way to solve the problem...
People that want to make a change need to aquire some of the "named" polyps and then start giving them away for SUPER low prices. Darth Mauls? How about 5 heads for $10?
PPE's? 2 heads for $5

When we founded PROP in 04 that was our goal, and in the phoenix metro area, it has worked. Prop routinely auctions off "rare" and LE frags for less than 20 bucks. Our interests when we founded the group was in SPS. While I am no longer on the board they have done a nice job of expanding the livestock base to include some other types of corals including some nice zoa's and acans.

My point is, you CAN do this and it works.
We did have to fund it out of our own pockets, but ultimately the satisfaction was well worth the couple hundred bucks (and the brutal raking over the coals we got from the local community)... They love it now

 

[thanatos696]

Ok, new guy is going to throw in his 2 cents here.. (lurker and LEARNER for more than a year before actually joining RC)
I will do my best to phrase this in a manner that will not offend anyone.. Well not too many anyway..
Zoa's need names for the purpose of conveying a standard idea of lineage AND color. Those who are worried about the lineage side should start naming them something like "Eagle eye Joe's Line" or "Joe Smith Eagle eye" because it is far too late to claim that the current names are relevant to anything other than the color.

As for the 'infamous' named polyps side of the argument:
In my opinion, there are only 3 types of people who have spent over $2 per polyp...at least after their second frag..
First:
Those who have worked hard and saved to have the extra cash to spend, and support the economy in doing so, and deserve to have zoa they want, when they want it even if it is over priced, because they have EARNED it!
Second:
The newbie who FAILED to be RESPONSIBLE and ask hundreds of questions at MORE THAN ONE LFS and who FAILED to spend 20 minutes online and do their home work, during which they would have found that most marine club members will give you a small frag for next to nothing, as long as they feel that it will live in your tank and that you will care for it. It may not be the second that you want it, but that is what supply and demand is all about, and what person type 1 has realized. (When did personal responsibility for doing your own homework fade from our world?.. oh yah.. cliff notes.. never mind..) This type 2 person has either learned out of necessity, or left the hobby because of their own failures.
Third:
Those who didn't have the money but spent it anyway, could not make their car payment, and then whined that their coral cost too much because it had a name. (These people should have never been given the money in the first place.) (or the coral!!!) This type 3 person will never learn and should be voted off the planet IMO.
My justification for the above statements:
In just over a year I have acquired over 30 different zoa's and I can tell you that people have offered more than $10 a polyp for a couple of them. Total polyp count between the 30 types is close to 1k polyps, with some types having 100 polyps and some having only 10.. The total cost of my +/-1k polyp collection.. drum roll.. $54.(Starters were 2 $29.99 low end, but high polyp count zoa's, minus my 10% marine club discount at the LFS purchased after months of research and pricing)
I did my homework and had a little patience. I traded or sold (never for more than $2 a polyp) the ones that grew to where I could frag and I bartered my numbers VS. their colors to get what I wanted, and I found that craigslist and RC are your friend! and most importantly I NEVER bought something because of its name (because with zoa's lineage has gone by the way side and names now indicate color weather you dont care or dont like it), or because it was "trendy". I only get a zoa because I like it's color and have never had a second thought about a trade because of it.

Sorry that got a little longer than I thought it was while I was typing.. heh.
Fire when ready :smokin:

 

[Creetin]

Man some here are bitter. You know it is not rocket science.
Buy one frag grow it out chop it up and trade for others.
I dont have all the money on the world either, But i make due with what i have. Rich people dont get rich by complaining. They work for it. Its not hard to get what ya want with a little time and dedication. If you want these corals do something about it. Grow that frag you got and trade/sell for others.

 

[PauChi]

What we do here is basically by identifying WHO or WHERE the origin of the specific coral(s) is acquired from .... meaning the original local Collector. No special names are required except the collector's username or his/her actual name(s).

Paul

 

[triton77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14628369#post14628369 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PauChi
What we do here is basically by identifying WHO or WHERE the origin of the specific coral(s) is acquired from .... meaning the original local Collector. No special names are required except the collector's username or his/her actual name(s).

Paul

THANK YOU! Im not sure if these people are even reading the thread before posting a reply.

 

[juniormc8704]

Ive certainly got mixed feeling about it.

However, lately, I have taken a step back and reevaluated my perspective.

Since ive been setting up my large system, Ive noticed a few things.

Equipment (quality stuff anyways) is CRAZY expensive. Electricity to run a large system, very expensive. Things like salt, bulbs, media, and other general things add up to be an enormous amount of money.

Cheap corals would be a welcome change....until i really thought about it.

The only way i can afford to keep a large reef system running, and running with the best equipment, is by selling frags.

If all corals were $5, sure it would be great when buying the coral, but there is no balance. If i buy it for $5, and sell equal size frags for the same price, as it grows out, no one has a problem.

The problem is, when a piece of equipment goes down, or needs to be upgraded, bulbs need replacing, its going to come right out of my pocket.

Now if i buy a $250 coral frag, grow it out, and cut it as needed, selling equal sized pieces for the same original purchase price, it certainly gives me the capital to purchase need equipment, or replacement items.

It terms of reefers being targeted in the "price" debate, I do not agree at all.

If i have to work for a month, and save up to buy a 1/2" frag, spend the money to raise it, and allow it to flourish, why should I (or anyone) turn around and give it away?

Thats not how the world works with ANYTHING.

Now, if we are talking about the margins LFS and sites work on, thats another story. However, at the same time, its not that simple either. They have huge expenses to run huge systems, just like the rest of us. Usually much worse.

My opinion is, buy what you like, and spend what you are comfortable spending.

Surround yourself with like minded people, who share a passion for the "good" stuff.

Share with those people. Do not write up a tally sheet accounting for ever "dollar".

In my circle of reefer friends, its a pot luck. We all buy stuff we like, and spread the love. Money doesnt need to change hands to get good corals. Do not come into it with the attitude, I'll give you a piece of this, for a piece of that.

Try, here is a sweet watermelon chalice bud, enjoy. If you are around good people, they will take care of you too. This mindset has served me much better than the alternative.

Just my .02

 

[PauChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14630338#post14630338 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by juniormc8704

Share with those people. Do not write up a tally sheet accounting for ever "dollar".

In my circle of reefer friends, its a pot luck. We all buy stuff we like, and spread the love. Money doesnt need to change hands to get good corals. Do not come into it with the attitude, I'll give you a piece of this, for a piece of that.

Try, here is a sweet watermelon chalice bud, enjoy. If you are around good people, they will take care of you too. This mindset has served me much better than the alternative.

Just my .02

That's exactly What I'm Practising ..... Share and Spread the Love .... among Good and trusted buddy reefer(s). We don't ever talk about Money and I don't even use the term Trade corals ... I'll say we .... Swapped !!

Paul

 

[MUCHO REEF]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14578428#post14578428 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PauChi
This Naming Game is actually a "Trap" employed to strike it's very first victim to get the Ball rolling ... kinda like a Domino effect!!
After a couple of years in this hobby I've come to realised that ALL collected corals are RARE regardless from where or which regions or parts of the World they're from ... it's the type of people or should I say .... manipulative reefers or some LFS owners that promotes convincing Sale tactics by means of the Naming Game and thereafter have their ways around these :eek1: innocent or naive reefers which usually ends with a hefty Sale price ..... at the reefer's expense!!

Paul

+ 100 Paul, you're hitting the nail on the head my friend. I agree.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14587661#post14587661 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dalston
I agree that nobody should ever be told how to enjoy the hobby and no one should say what people should or shouldn't buy. I do however believe that people should be aware of both sides of the story. There are many experienced and educated reefers (like yourself) that are fully aware of both sides, I have nothing against this and what you buy and how much you spend is your choice and your choice only. All this thread was intended to do was share my EXPERIENCE and OPINION.

I am sorry that you feel like I am making out people to be bad and trying to lure people away from the hobby. That was/is not my intention at all. I just think there are 2 sides to every situation, in this one, the case for promoting high price polyp sales is everywhere. Its not so much for the other side so I am just sharing my opposing opinion and that is all.

Thank you for your input in this thread roblack.

David.

I felt you were just sharing your experience as well and I agree that hearing both sides of the story is only fair. Thanks for sharing.