The inwall 380 starfire reborn

[Sparkss]

Ok, time for a bit of an update. The stand is in place, but not yet leveled. The epoxy that I used on the anchor bolts will take up to 72 hours to cure with the temperatures we have been having lately, so it looks like I won't be doing much more on the tank for a couple of days. As it was it would have been 36 hours before I was able to touch it again anyways, what with work and all.


Here is the stand in place, but not yet leveled. As I mentioned, the anchors are not ready to torque down yet, and the stand has a little bit of a bow from all of the welding, so until I can draw it down tight in the middle front, I can't begin to really level it. From what I am seeing, it is looking pretty close to level as it is (once I bring those front two middle legs back down).

You can see here some of the details of the wall, front anchors, drain I had to re-route, and other challenges that we had to design the stand around.

Here is basically where the opening will be cut (Eventually). It is starting to actually look like an in wall setup (finally). I won't cut the opening until I can get the stand leveled and anchored down in it's final resting place. Then I plan to use a router from the in house side, with a trim bit, and cut out the opening (using painting drop clothes to contain as much of the dust as possible, taping it off as much from top to bottom as I can).

 

[Sparkss]

I have insulation to go back in the wall under the stand, and 3/8" plywood to face it with (to tie it back in with the original, existing, full studs, for added strength), and 5/8" green board to go over top of that. But that also must wait until I can finish leveling the stand, since I will possibly need access to all the from legs to accomplish that task.


When I re-ran the drain, I went ahead and added a p-trap to the riser so that I could use it for a skimmer drain and/or water changes, etc.

 

[mrcrab]

MAN...and I thought mine was tough. Actually the hardest thing I had to do was write the check . Looks great so far.

Oh and GOOD LUCK with the containing that dust idea! ROTFLMAO. :lol:

 

[Sparkss]

yea, we had/have a couple of challenges in getting this tank up and running. So far we have been able to find solutions for most all of it (but the tank still isn't wet yet ).

And yes, one of those challenges yet to come is containing all of that dust when I finally cut the opening in the wall *sigh*

Might I add that I did almost all of this solo, including putting the stand into place, loading/unloading, etc (my neighbor had to help lift the header into place since it was too heavy for me to lift by myself, but that was it so far). The biggest challenge for me is that before this project I had done just about none of the tasks involved, but I sure did learn alot along the way (mainly that I never want to have to do any of it again )

Tomorrow I am going to the paint store to get the highest rated waterproofing paint/covering and start sealing everything (header, stand top, etc).

The topic of lighting and circulation is yet still to be decided, aside from using LAIIIs with 250 bulbs (likely 10 K, supplemented with T5s running off of an IC 660). But the ballast is still up in the air.. I was originally planning to use IC eletronic ballasts w/ XM 10K bulbs. I put that configuration over our prop tank (in an LAIII mini) and liked the color, but had a bad outbreak of cyano that I am not sure is related to the lighting change or just coincidentally something else. I just put the PFO HQI ballast back on that tank tonight and will monitor if it has any affect on the cyano or not. If it does, then the IC ballasts/XM bulb combination will be out for me (both were brand new when I put them over the tank a little over a month ago).

Circulation I am leaning towards 4 Vortec pumps for in tank circulation. This is for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is they much touted, future promised controller, and all that it is supposed to be able to do. I had originally planned on a tunze wavebox and a CL using an OM 4 way and dart pump. I already have the dart and OM 4way (and a barracuda standing by if I needed the extra flow), but looking at the costs, and costs to run each configuration, I think that the vortecs make more sense. Especially since electricty is so expensive out here in Ca.

I also was considering the new zeolith based system from Faunamarine, but have not really been sold on it yet. The initial monetary outlay is around $500 (for reactor, media, startup supplements, etc). That is not the biggest concern, but the month;y maintenance costs are. For a setup our size it will run almost $100 per month for the various required supplements. Aquarium Obsessed was very gracious in offerring a pared down package, targetting the minimum of what we would need for our setup, and this helped get us down to the $100 per month mark. Before then it ran around $200 per month, based on our bio load (and I am not setting up a big tank to have it sit empty.. so I told them to expect a big bioload ).

Well, those are the things I am bouncing around in my head right now. I know most would have already purchased these items, but I have an IC 660 and some endcaps, so I can throw VHO or T5s over the tank while it is cycling, just to help me setup the rockwork, etc. I have not decided if I will run it completely stand alone until jsut before we fully cut over (likely in February sometime), or connect it to the shared sump now and get it integrated into the main water body. I do plan to take a chunk of chaeto from the 'fuge and put it into the new tank to seed it with pods, etc, as well as a good portion of seed sand from our current tank, with all of it's microfauna (the new tank will have an SSB). We also have 50 - 100 pounds of LR in the sump, just waiting to go into the new tank to help seed.

Well, that is enough for one post (too much actually , but I had realized that I had not talked at all about the tank equipment, so figured this was as good a time as any

 

[mrcrab]

The Vortech's are definately the way to go. I have 4 now, 2 on the 345 and 2 on the 120 which will be moved to the 345 after it's broken down. Who wants to cut holes in their tank...NOT me.

 

[jnarowe]

I have 4 too. They are working great and I plan to get more.

 

[Sparkss]

What else you got on your 1k tank for circulation Johnathan, besides the Vortecs ?

mrcrab, this tank is actually already drilled, but only 2 holes for the drain part of a CL in the back tank wall, the previous owner had the returns for the CL going over the top of the tank to the 4 corners (I think , from what I remember about his setup). But I still would rather just plug the bulkheads and go completely with the Vortecs

 

[jnarowe]

Just the Vortechs and one Hammerhead for return flow. After head loss I am getting about 4200gph in the display from the Hammerhead divided by a manifold with four 1" lines going to the display, one 1" line going to the fuge, which gravity feeds into the diplay, and one line gong to a reactor.

I would guess that I am getting about 16x circulation in the display, but I could be off in that estimate.

 

[Sparkss]

Ok, so time for another update, although not much has happened since the last one, not in the way of progress anyways .

Picked up some 2 part epoxy paint from a local paint store to coat/paint the new header, studs, sheetrock and anything else that will be right over the tank. Yea, I know, overkill, but then again why would I want to change my mentality (most everything so far has been considered overkill by one person or another) But I always tell them that peace of mind has no price (within reason ).

I am also considering sealing the pad with the epoxy paint as well, anyone have any thoughts on that ? I have to try to take the stand back off the pad anyways (long story.. will get into it in a minute..). So while I had it off I thought it might be a good time to go ahead and seal the pad, top and sides. I am considering attaching a 2x4 along the bottom outside of the studs and epoxy paint sealing it also, that would make a basin of sorts to direct any water flow, leaks, etc, away from the house/wall. So having the top of the pad already sealed would help with that overall idea.

Now for the reason I need to pull the stand back off : When I went to start leveling the stand I noticed that while the bottom was flush up against the bottom of the wall, the top was up to 1/4" away from the edge of the stand top. This was because I did not pay enough attention when installing the last stufds on either side of the opening and pushed them past the inside edge of the wall causing the sheetrock on the house side to be pushed out. The only way to pull it back snug is to remove the last 2 studs (one on each side) and reposition/reinstall them more flush, then to secure the sheetrock to the new studs from the house side (something I had been waiting on the stand for, ironically enough). So I basically need to take a step back to clean up my mistake before I can take those last couple of steps forward towards putting the tank up onto the stand.

One other thing I was thinking about was to level the stand with the tank already on it. Even though I will be able to level it pretty much with it "empty", having at least that bit of weight will help to "straighten" things out a bit. Aside from the challenges of leveling it with the extra weight on it, can anyone think of any reasons not to take this approach ? (and of course the tank would be empty, and the stand verified as at least close to level before we even started).

So, that is where we are currently.. please feel free to point out anything that I may have overlooked. All of this "fun:" will start tomorrow morning (as soon as I drag my sorry behind out of bed ).


One last item actually, I talked to an LFS near here and they agreed to sell me some sand at "bulk" pricing. It is CaribSea Special Grade Reef Sand, in 40# bags. Has anyone had any experience with this sand ? Too fine ? (gets blown all around by powerheads, etc) Not fine enough ? (for substrate loving fish and inverts).

Thanks in advance for any feedback on any of our items

 

[jnarowe]

I use that sand and it is fine for me. Why take the wall apart? You don't have a saws-all?

I would definitely seal the pad. Tennant coatings are the best IMO. Using a HD sealer is not going to do the trick. You really should use commercial grade if you can. Epoxy paint would be OK but not really seal it, and if there is any moisture in the pad, which I would assume there is, you may not get a good enough adhesion.

 

[Sparkss]

It actually is commercial grade 2 part epoxy sealant (not even tinted, although they offerred to tint it off white if I wanted.. I probably should have, but at $100 for the gallon, plus activator, I had spent enough for one day on paint). This was from Kelley Moore paints, not HD or Lowes.

And I am not really taking the wall apart, just pulling the last stud (of 3) on each side and reinstalling. The other 2 studs on each side are correct. I guess I just got into a hurry when I toe nailed htem in and didn't pay attention to how they were lined up. And a sawsall wouldn't help anyways, since I sistered the one side to the other 2 studs, so I just need to pull the nails and reinstall properly. Hopefully it will be more of an inconvenience than anything else .

Thanks for the feedback on the sand too

 

[jnarowe]

I actually use different sands in different areas to give a more natural look. Some of it is fairly coarse too. I know there are long-winded arguments about what sand is the "right" sand, but I don't buy into that crap. Clean sand is good sand.

 

[zemuron114]

i didn't know you were going to go ahead with this monster! i can't wait until its done

 

[monacoplc]

Wow what an amazing job you have done so far...can't wait to see updated pictures

 

[badbones]

I too am doing a large tank, about 420 and am also doing a metal stand like Sanjay Joshi. The one thing that seems to be common with metal stands is they warp a little in welding.

I saw in another build where someone placed the plywood down and then used self leveling cement like you do when you float a countertop for tile. This selfleveling cement would take out all imperfections in the leveling. I would think that you could put the diamond wire in the cement to give added strength.

So what do you think of this? Any flaws? The stand I will have made is with 4" tubes on each end and 3 I beams across with no center support to give full access underneath.

Tony

 

[jnarowe]

if the stand is warped, self-leveling cement won't do any good.

 

[Sparkss]

zemuron114
Yup, we are moving ahead.. why do you think I was talking to you about helping supply us when it came time to stock it with fish ? heheh . Some of the most interesting and colorful fish that we had were the ones we got from you

monacoplc
Thanks for the kind words.. hopefully I will have some new pictures within the next 48 hours.. right now it is a matter of literally "watching paint dry" . That plus the temperatures have not been exactly optimal for drying and curing activities (not to mention I am a wuss when it comes to the cold, and the doors all need to be open when working with these compounds, even when wearing a breathing mask with a chemical filter.

badbones
The only trouble with using that approach for a "warped" stand is that eventually it will "unwarp". When the pieces are cut they are typically measured to be dead on square when put together. As you pointed out after a good bit of welding the metal will pull/twist up a bit, from the heat of the welding activities, but the dimemsions would still result in a perfectly square, plumb, stand, once/if that "twist" were taken out. That is the reson behind the anchors on the front of the center 2 bottom legs of our stand, to pull that twist back square.


About why I was thinking of leveling it with the tank on, while I could level the stand empty, I would end up taking off the top board (unscrewing it all the way around). This is not really a big deal and I was going to do it anyways for when I painted/sealed it. The builders really went all out and lined a thin layer of felt all the way around the top of the stand between the metal and the wood (I had them just cut and install the wood top.. the price was resaonable and it was one last thing for me to deal with). While this is a nice touch (and I can see no technical downside to it), I would have to pull it off to level the bare stand (it looks like the felt was secured with some light adhesive, but I have yet to actually pull the borad off to inspect it). So I would basically need to strip it all of if I wanted to get a true level reading of the bare stand. I may just level it with the felt on (if it is a major ordeal to remove it) and then reshoot level again once I get the tank up onto the stand.

 

[Sparkss]

Ok, update time yet again. After 2 days of dawn to dark it doesn't seem like I had that much of a dent, but I at least know that I am that much closer to getting the aquarium wet

I pulled and "fixed" the studs to bring the sheetrock back flush with the stand and sunk a handful of screws into the wall from the house side to secure the sheetrock to the new studs and header. After that I leveled the stand and then went about the task of reinstalling the ceiling (that had to be lowered due to the drain pipe) and refacing the studs in the garage with plywood (for added strength, for both the wall and the piece of the wall that was "free" under the stand).

I finished up that task this morning and started on hanging the sheetrock. It was at this point that I realized that I had neglected to setup for relocating the outlets for the tank, so I fell back and ran lines for 3 circuits over to the opposite side of the tank, near the sump and other equipment. Then I finished roughing in the walls and hanging the sheetrock.

Here is how it stands now, mudded in to dry overnight.

Off to the right you can see the outlet box (the wooden top is not secured to the stand yet, so no worries about those corners sticking up )

Tomorrow I get to sand it all down and decide if I need another coat of sheetrock mud before I proceed with the primer and paint.

As for epoxy sealing the pad, the epoxy paint products that I have all state that newly poured concrete requires a minimum of 30 days cure time before I could use the epoxy paint on it. I am not that patient, so the pad will just have to remain as "raw" concrete.

 

[mrcrab]

Lookin' good Sparkss. I'm still waiting for mine to finish cycling. Talk about impatience, if I had hair I'd be tearing it out by now!

 

[jnarowe]

wow...looks great. so the stand actually goes into the wall and you sheetrocked over it? That's very interesting. Did you insulate the wall? One suggestion if you haven'talready done it, is to completely spray foam around all wall penetrations like that outlet under the tank. Most noise transfer through walls comes from these holes as well as direct vibration of the wall itself. With the steel stand embedded in the wall, you will have to be very careful about vibration transferring to the viewing room.

Is that sub-panel for the tank or a main house panel to the left? Maybe some weather stripping for that box would be good.

As for epoxy sealing the pad, the epoxy paint products that I have all state that newly poured concrete requires a minimum of 30 days cure time before I could use the epoxy paint on it. I am not that patient, so the pad will just have to remain as "raw" concrete.

That is why I recommended commercial duty sealant. There are some that can go on teh cement as soon as it sets up.

IMO, you don't really need to secure the plywood, but I would put some effort into sealing it top and sides, if not the bottom. I used marine epoxy (West System) and rolled it on. That is the 2-part epoxy that is used for fiberglassing boats. Can't wait to see the tank on top of that bad boy!