The inwall 380 starfire reborn
- Thread starter Sparkss
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Thanks Jordan, and yea, it really does add a nice splash. I jsut hope that we can do right by it and not only keep it alive, but get it to thrive and grow. I still have not been able to get a positive ID on it and whether or not it is photoshynthetic or not. I am leaning towards not, simply based on past experiences with gorg, shapes and colors, but it would be very awesome if it turned out to be photosynthetic like our other gorg is 
.
We just got in on a group buy for Rod's food (the onyx clown breeder). Aparently his food has a pretty devout following. Even though we typically make our own, we are going to be giving his stuff a try. If you want some at the GB price, just jump in on the thread in our club forum and I can pick yours up and deliver it the next time we are in the area, if you wanted. Just LMK
and thanks for checking out our tank and thread
.We just got in on a group buy for Rod's food (the onyx clown breeder). Aparently his food has a pretty devout following. Even though we typically make our own, we are going to be giving his stuff a try. If you want some at the GB price, just jump in on the thread in our club forum and I can pick yours up and deliver it the next time we are in the area, if you wanted. Just LMK
and thanks for checking out our tank and thread
Here are the monti pictures that I promised yesterday (what a crazy week.. *sheesh*)
Here is our sunset monti that is finally starting to color up it's base a bit more. It is hard to see because it is at the back of the tank.
Here is our original poker star piece. We got it for a great deal, bought it browned out from an LFS. They knew what it was, but they sold it cheap because it was browned out (from a lighting/temperature incident the week before)
As you can see from our other piece that broke off and grew onto another rick, it is doing quite well for us
Here is our sunset monti that is finally starting to color up it's base a bit more
. It is hard to see because it is at the back of the tank.
Here is our original poker star piece. We got it for a great deal, bought it browned out from an LFS. They knew what it was, but they sold it cheap because it was browned out (from a lighting/temperature incident the week before)
As you can see from our other piece that broke off and grew onto another rick, it is doing quite well for us
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Here is what was sold to us as a superman monti ages ago. It finally colored up and started growing.. but it is still alot lighter than I expected it to be ?
Here is an "unknown" monti that we have in low light currently (high or low light seems to have no affect). It is a red on red encrusting monti that has sort of been growing on us lately (no pun intended.. well, maybe intended a little bit)
Here is a bit of reverse sunset monti that we got form Paul (for which we also owe him a chunk of our sunset monti).
and here is a small nub of a morning star monti clone that we had. It's base is a darker, burnt organe color and it has a nice contrast. It loks just like the LE, but we know that it is a "fake", but don't care because it is a cool coral. It used to be alot bigger, but for some reason it started RTNing about a week ago and this is what we were able to save
We have a dinosaur egg monti and 2 different rainbow monti's, but none of those pictures came out good at all.. and they were all smaller pieces still anyways.
Here is an "unknown" monti that we have in low light currently (high or low light seems to have no affect). It is a red on red encrusting monti that has sort of been growing on us lately (no pun intended.. well, maybe intended a little bit
)
Here is a bit of reverse sunset monti that we got form Paul (for which we also owe him a chunk of our sunset monti
).
and here is a small nub of a morning star monti clone that we had. It's base is a darker, burnt organe color and it has a nice contrast. It loks just like the LE, but we know that it is a "fake", but don't care because it is a cool coral
. It used to be alot bigger, but for some reason it started RTNing about a week ago and this is what we were able to save
We have a dinosaur egg monti and 2 different rainbow monti's, but none of those pictures came out good at all.. and they were all smaller pieces still anyways.
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I more or less finished the ATO setup today. I say more or less becuase the RO/DI is still "make shift". I hope to have it setup in it's permanent location tomorrow, if time permits.
Here is the ATO reservoir. Basically a 20g Brute Tote.
The float switches are so that the RO/DI is not constantly cycling on and off to fill the reservoir. It will go on at the bottom and turn off when it hits the top float. The bulkhead mechanical float is for backup purposes, in case the other electronic floats get stuck or malfunction.
Here is it up into place :
There is another double float setup in the bottom sump, to activate a solenoid to allow water to flow from the reservoir (gravity fed) to the sump. The floats are both electronic, with the top float being a backup to the bottom one, in case the bottom one become stuck or otherwise malfunctions. Both electronic float switch sets use low voltage through the switches to operate the relays (just personal perferrence).
I also started putting up the shelving above the sumps. I was a couple of brackets shy, so it won't get finished until tomorrow. At the same time we hung the Tek T5 light over the top sump (which is the fuge and will also eventually be sectioned off to serve as a prop tank). Up until now we had the light chocked up on some supports laid across the top of the sump. This way there is no weight, etc, in contact with the sump. We set up a separate, heavier duty shelf to hang the light from.
Tomorrow I will need to put up the rest of the shleving (after an HD run) and start organizing the boxes of reef stuff in the garage (to start reclaiming our garage). I also hope to be able to get the aquacontroller all set up, and hte DC8/DC4 mounted and comtrolling the lights, etc (right now they are all on separate timers, and the controller is leaning up against the wall in the corner). At that time I should be able to finalize any wiring, etc.
Here is the ATO reservoir. Basically a 20g Brute Tote.
The float switches are so that the RO/DI is not constantly cycling on and off to fill the reservoir. It will go on at the bottom and turn off when it hits the top float. The bulkhead mechanical float is for backup purposes, in case the other electronic floats get stuck or malfunction.
Here is it up into place :
There is another double float setup in the bottom sump, to activate a solenoid to allow water to flow from the reservoir (gravity fed) to the sump. The floats are both electronic, with the top float being a backup to the bottom one, in case the bottom one become stuck or otherwise malfunctions. Both electronic float switch sets use low voltage through the switches to operate the relays (just personal perferrence).
I also started putting up the shelving above the sumps. I was a couple of brackets shy, so it won't get finished until tomorrow. At the same time we hung the Tek T5 light over the top sump (which is the fuge and will also eventually be sectioned off to serve as a prop tank). Up until now we had the light chocked up on some supports laid across the top of the sump. This way there is no weight, etc, in contact with the sump. We set up a separate, heavier duty shelf to hang the light from.
Tomorrow I will need to put up the rest of the shleving (after an HD run) and start organizing the boxes of reef stuff in the garage (to start reclaiming our garage). I also hope to be able to get the aquacontroller all set up, and hte DC8/DC4 mounted and comtrolling the lights, etc (right now they are all on separate timers, and the controller is leaning up against the wall in the corner). At that time I should be able to finalize any wiring, etc.
jnarowe
New member
Nice ATO. Couple things: It looks like in a couple of the pics that the tubing you are using for top-off is the semi-transparent 1/4" from HD. If so, an FYI, algae will grow in it when exposed to light. I recommend you swap it out for black tubing if you can.
How will you lift the Tek lamp to get into the top sump?
How will you lift the Tek lamp to get into the top sump?
I had planned to replace it with non-transparent tubing, as soon as I finalized the RO/DI setup and locate some of the proper tubing. Sad part is that I just did a large order frmo US Plastics, but could not locate the right tubing (The ones I found were in rolls of 500' or more.. uugghh 
). It was late and I wanted to get my order in so I didn't spend too much time hunting. Unfortunately they don't really have a section labelled "RO/DI tubing" and I wasn't 100% sure which 1/4" tubing was appropriate, just going by the industry tech names for each one. And HD/Lowes only carry the semi-transparent tubing. I may just bite the bullet and buy from MarineDepot, since I am pretty sure they have it, and it will get here by Wednesday morning.
As for lifting the light on top.. that is something I am still working out.. good catch. I am thinking of making it so that I can lift the front of the light up and secure it to the top, puttin ghte light on an angle, allow access to the sump, although more so to the front than the back. Ultimately I would like to put in a pulley system of sorts, but I am unsure if I have enough room over it for hte hardware (and then to be able to lift the light enough). I also don't want to spend an arm and a leg for that functionality either, so we will see).
). It was late and I wanted to get my order in so I didn't spend too much time hunting. Unfortunately they don't really have a section labelled "RO/DI tubing" and I wasn't 100% sure which 1/4" tubing was appropriate, just going by the industry tech names for each one. And HD/Lowes only carry the semi-transparent tubing. I may just bite the bullet and buy from MarineDepot, since I am pretty sure they have it, and it will get here by Wednesday morning.As for lifting the light on top.. that is something I am still working out.. good catch
. I am thinking of making it so that I can lift the front of the light up and secure it to the top, puttin ghte light on an angle, allow access to the sump, although more so to the front than the back. Ultimately I would like to put in a pulley system of sorts, but I am unsure if I have enough room over it for hte hardware (and then to be able to lift the light enough). I also don't want to spend an arm and a leg for that functionality either, so we will see).
jnarowe
New member
well, lifting that lamp to an angle will get you burned. They get quite hot. What I did on my old 29g Tall was install simple shelf brackets and attached shelf supports to either end of the lamp. Here's a pic:
This is a very old pic that shows it when it was first set up. This is fairly easy to do and when in use, you can lift the lamp and re-position is fairly easily. It is about the least expensive way I can figure for this, but making an aluminum bracket that swivels up or slides out of the way would be even better.
This is a very old pic that shows it when it was first set up. This is fairly easy to do and when in use, you can lift the lamp and re-position is fairly easily. It is about the least expensive way I can figure for this, but making an aluminum bracket that swivels up or slides out of the way would be even better.
Quick update (no picts until tomorrow though )
We picked up a couple more fish.. an indigo dottyback (the hybrid from ORA) and a female green spotted mandarin mate for our male. All fish are getting along famously
I added the lifters to the light over the sump, sectioned off the sump into 3 different sections, 2 for macro algae (chaeto and gracilleria) and 1 for a prop section. I have adjusted the lighting over each section so that the timers and lights are set accordingly (and separately) for prop and fuge. Since we are using T5 lighting, we set the prop section to be a 9" strip across the front of the sump, to take advantage of the lights placed there (one daylight and one actinic). The fuge lights are more towards the center and are 2 6500 K bulbs (or whatever the daylight/sun ones are). My only regret is that I had apparently scratched a portion of the inside front of hte sump wheil scraping algae off much earlier in the setup, and now it obscures the view of some of the frags being housed there. I will have to look into some in-tank acrylic scratch removing kits, I suppose.
Our colored RO/DI lines came in and we replaced all of the clear lines with opaque ones.
We are looking to possibly replace our lighting... while I like the 250W XM 10K lamps, we recently acquired quite a few micros and acans.. none of which look half as good as they did in the tank we got them from. So we wanted to add some actinic "pop" without adding any separate actinic bulbs.
We are looking to go from 250W XM 10k on an HQI ballast to 400W Ushio 14K on an Electronic ballast. Our photo period is currently 9 hours, we will likely be moving to 10 hours within the next mont or so.
Here are the numbers of our current lighting setup :
XM 10k 250W on HQI Ballast
PPFD: 182
CCT: 9921
Amps: 3.27
approx $$ per bulb per month @9 hours: $38
approx $$ per bulb per month @10 hours: $42
And the one we are thinking of moving to :
Ushio 14k 400W on E Ballast (Same as the BLV Nepturion 14K)
PPFD: 152
CCT: 13648
Amps: 3.5
approx $$ per bulb per month @9 hours: $41
approx $$ per bulb per month @10 hours: $45
Other bulbs we are considering :
Giesemann Coral (14.5k) 400W on E Ballast
PPFD: 157
CCT: 11354
Amps: 3.53
approx $$ per bulb per month @9 hours: $41
approx $$ per bulb per month @10 hours: $45
Right now Sanjay is using the 400W Giesemann Coral lamps on IC E ballasts over his tank that is almost the exact same dimensions as our (ours is 6" shorter in length and height than his) and he ran tests with a meter and says that pretty much all of his tank gets more than enough light for SPS. He has a pink milli 4" above the sand bed that has kept it's color and grown nicely (that was one real world example he used to support his findings with the meter)
Since our tank is 24" tall, versus his 30" tall tank, we should be able to enjoy similar results. Both he and we use LA III reflectors that are approx 9 1/2" off the waterline to the bottom of the reflector.
One IC 400W ballast + Ushio 14K 400W lamp will be here from MD tomorrow, at which time we will set it up on one side of our tank to see how it looks and how the corals react. If the test goes well we will order another set for the other side. Since the operating costs are only a couple of $$ per month, it seems like a good option to try (if it had been $30 or so per month per bulb more, then it would not have been worth it.. we have a spreadsheet with our tier 3 per KWH rate, hours of operation, etc that we just plug in the watts, etc fmor Sanjay's site to see the costs per month, etc).
)We picked up a couple more fish.. an indigo dottyback (the hybrid from ORA) and a female green spotted mandarin mate for our male. All fish are getting along famously
I added the lifters to the light over the sump, sectioned off the sump into 3 different sections, 2 for macro algae (chaeto and gracilleria) and 1 for a prop section. I have adjusted the lighting over each section so that the timers and lights are set accordingly (and separately) for prop and fuge. Since we are using T5 lighting, we set the prop section to be a 9" strip across the front of the sump, to take advantage of the lights placed there (one daylight and one actinic). The fuge lights are more towards the center and are 2 6500 K bulbs (or whatever the daylight/sun ones are). My only regret is that I had apparently scratched a portion of the inside front of hte sump wheil scraping algae off much earlier in the setup, and now it obscures the view of some of the frags being housed there. I will have to look into some in-tank acrylic scratch removing kits, I suppose.
Our colored RO/DI lines came in and we replaced all of the clear lines with opaque ones.
We are looking to possibly replace our lighting... while I like the 250W XM 10K lamps, we recently acquired quite a few micros and acans.. none of which look half as good as they did in the tank we got them from. So we wanted to add some actinic "pop" without adding any separate actinic bulbs.
We are looking to go from 250W XM 10k on an HQI ballast to 400W Ushio 14K on an Electronic ballast. Our photo period is currently 9 hours, we will likely be moving to 10 hours within the next mont or so.
Here are the numbers of our current lighting setup :
XM 10k 250W on HQI Ballast
PPFD: 182
CCT: 9921
Amps: 3.27
approx $$ per bulb per month @9 hours: $38
approx $$ per bulb per month @10 hours: $42
And the one we are thinking of moving to :
Ushio 14k 400W on E Ballast (Same as the BLV Nepturion 14K)
PPFD: 152
CCT: 13648
Amps: 3.5
approx $$ per bulb per month @9 hours: $41
approx $$ per bulb per month @10 hours: $45
Other bulbs we are considering :
Giesemann Coral (14.5k) 400W on E Ballast
PPFD: 157
CCT: 11354
Amps: 3.53
approx $$ per bulb per month @9 hours: $41
approx $$ per bulb per month @10 hours: $45
Right now Sanjay is using the 400W Giesemann Coral lamps on IC E ballasts over his tank that is almost the exact same dimensions as our (ours is 6" shorter in length and height than his) and he ran tests with a meter and says that pretty much all of his tank gets more than enough light for SPS. He has a pink milli 4" above the sand bed that has kept it's color and grown nicely (that was one real world example he used to support his findings with the meter)
Since our tank is 24" tall, versus his 30" tall tank, we should be able to enjoy similar results. Both he and we use LA III reflectors that are approx 9 1/2" off the waterline to the bottom of the reflector.
One IC 400W ballast + Ushio 14K 400W lamp will be here from MD tomorrow, at which time we will set it up on one side of our tank to see how it looks and how the corals react. If the test goes well we will order another set for the other side. Since the operating costs are only a couple of $$ per month, it seems like a good option to try (if it had been $30 or so per month per bulb more, then it would not have been worth it.. we have a spreadsheet with our tier 3 per KWH rate, hours of operation, etc that we just plug in the watts, etc fmor Sanjay's site to see the costs per month, etc).
Being from Calif also I am curios to see how much switching to 400W lighting raises your PG&E bill. With that extra heat your cooling is going to have to work a bit more also. I have some Coralvue 400W ballasts I bought some time back, but have been afraid to plug them in, my bill is high enough already.
I have never used the IC ballast so I don't know what the wattage draw is, but I don't think I buy the fact that adding 150W will only add another .23W. Let us know how it turns out.
I have never used the IC ballast so I don't know what the wattage draw is, but I don't think I buy the fact that adding 150W will only add another .23W. Let us know how it turns out.
That is not speculation, but fact
. We looked up the numbers on Sanjay's web site. Remember.. We are going from 250W HQI (which is closer to 300W - 350W) to 400W Electronic... huge difference there. Same Ushio bulb on HQI pulls approx 5.2 amps. The amps, ppfd and cct all came straight from Sanjay's database. None were collected or guessed at by me 
I checked and it doesn't look like the E Ballasts will fire that bulb (Sanjay doesn't list either E Ballast for it.. not EVC, Coralvue or IC).
The new bulb/ballast will be here today, so we will find out soon enough (I suppose). I don't know about getting the pop, but I know that things don't look so bad right now.. and adding 4000 cct (with some pretty big spikes in the 430 - 450 nm range) couldn't hurt. (I hope).
Our biggest challenge, as with jgsensor, we live in Ca, where electricity is darned expensive (our tier 3, which we typically hit within the 2nd week of each month, is .35 per KWH). So we are trying to balance appearance, PAR and electrical consumption. Going too much bluer drops the PAR and would result in potentially requiring more lights over the tank, unless we move to HQI, which would raise the electrical consumption beyond acceptable levels. So it is a balancing act that may result in adding a T5 across the front of the tank (where the LPS mainly are kept). But I really am trying to avoid adding separate lighting like that.
I just hope that it all works out, but I am just speculating on the visual outcome at this point.. all of the data points in all of the databases won't tell us how it will look in our tank, but can only give us a general idea. Rest assured, right or wrong in my assumptions, I will post the results here.
One thing to note is that a fellow reefer up near Sactown bought one of these Ushio 14K last year (no idea how long ago) and ran it on an HQI ballast. He reported that it didn't appear to be any brighter than a 6 month old Radium that he repalced with it (which makes no sense, based on the repotred ppfd). He also reported that 6 months later it majorly yellowed out on him. I still wonder if he had just gotten a bad bulb ?
EDIT : I will only be swapping out 1 light with the 400W Ushio, so it should be easy enough to compare the old to the new
jnarowe
New member
So my experience with the 1000W Ushio 20K is as follows:
--Obviously no problem with PAR.
--Tank looks great with no supplemental lighting.
--corals grow very well.
--they are 1 year old and do not appear to have yellowed at all.
I note that Sanjay has some lamps on his tanks that are far older, but I have new lamps waiting to be installed.
And at .35/kwh I would crap my pants. I would definitely look into alternative lighting, moving my system into a greenhouse, solar tubes, etc. Although I have much lower electrical costs, I am still a firm believer that anything I do should be as efficient as possible, regardless of my ability to pay. I would even look into creating a mirror array that uses a periscope form, to reflect natural sunlight onto the tank. The caveat being algal control.
I personally don't like any of the 14K lamps I have seen. To me, they all still require blue supplementation.
--Obviously no problem with PAR.
--Tank looks great with no supplemental lighting.
--corals grow very well.
--they are 1 year old and do not appear to have yellowed at all.
I note that Sanjay has some lamps on his tanks that are far older, but I have new lamps waiting to be installed.
And at .35/kwh I would crap my pants. I would definitely look into alternative lighting, moving my system into a greenhouse, solar tubes, etc. Although I have much lower electrical costs, I am still a firm believer that anything I do should be as efficient as possible, regardless of my ability to pay. I would even look into creating a mirror array that uses a periscope form, to reflect natural sunlight onto the tank. The caveat being algal control.
I personally don't like any of the 14K lamps I have seen. To me, they all still require blue supplementation.
With your 1kW 20K bulbs, how many do you run and what are the dimensions of your tank ?
And yea, at that high a rate I do just about crap my pants.. now maybe you know why I try so hard to keep the number and amount of lights down. Alot of people say that they don't pay the 3rd tier for their tanks... they average out the cost across all 3 tiers to calculate what their tanks cost them. I completely disagree... If you unplugged your tank, would you still be up into tier 3 ? If so, then your entire tank cost should be calculated at the tier 3 rate -- since if you unplugged your tank tomorrow, the amount you would save would all be from the 3rd tier pricing, so taht is how much the "tank costs you to run".
Well, the light is in and burning in. I noticed a little more flourescnece in a couple of the zoas and the 10K side now looks decidedly yellow in comparison. In fact I would almost swear that the 400W 14k bulbs put out more light than the 250W 10ks, despite the readings that say the 14Ks are 16% less PAR than the 10ks. Maybe it is just how my eyes perceive the blue versus the yellow (used to look white, but not anymore).
I will let them burn in over the weekend (I know.. not really enough time to truly burn in, but enough for me to decide) and if I still like them by next week I will order a second set from MD and swap the other side out.
As for additional heat from 400W versus 250W.. I am not concerned for 2 reasons. Firstly the power consumption is very close between the two.. and heat comes from power consumed. Secondly, we use an Eco Cooler, so cooling is significantly cheaper than heating for us (still working on a more efficient heating method.. *sigh*).
Once I finish up at work I will try to take some shots of the tank this evening and post them
And yea, at that high a rate I do just about crap my pants.. now maybe you know why I try so hard to keep the number and amount of lights down
. Alot of people say that they don't pay the 3rd tier for their tanks... they average out the cost across all 3 tiers to calculate what their tanks cost them. I completely disagree... If you unplugged your tank, would you still be up into tier 3 ? If so, then your entire tank cost should be calculated at the tier 3 rate -- since if you unplugged your tank tomorrow, the amount you would save would all be from the 3rd tier pricing, so taht is how much the "tank costs you to run".Well, the light is in and burning in. I noticed a little more flourescnece in a couple of the zoas and the 10K side now looks decidedly yellow in comparison. In fact I would almost swear that the 400W 14k bulbs put out more light than the 250W 10ks, despite the readings that say the 14Ks are 16% less PAR than the 10ks. Maybe it is just how my eyes perceive the blue versus the yellow (used to look white, but not anymore).
I will let them burn in over the weekend (I know.. not really enough time to truly burn in, but enough for me to decide) and if I still like them by next week I will order a second set from MD and swap the other side out.
As for additional heat from 400W versus 250W.. I am not concerned for 2 reasons. Firstly the power consumption is very close between the two.. and heat comes from power consumed. Secondly, we use an Eco Cooler, so cooling is significantly cheaper than heating for us (still working on a more efficient heating method.. *sigh*).
Once I finish up at work I will try to take some shots of the tank this evening and post them
Here is a picture of the tank with the 10k 250W HQI on the left and the 14k 400W Electronic on the right.
You can just see the yellow on the left compared to the blue/white on the right. I don't know if it is a trick of the eye or what not, but the right side almost looks brighter than the left, even though I know that the PPFD is 30 points lower. Could it be how the blue/white is perceived compared to the yellow ?
The 14k is getting more white each day as it burns in.. that or we are just getting more used to it and noticing the blue aspects of it less each day ?
You can just see the yellow on the left compared to the blue/white on the right. I don't know if it is a trick of the eye or what not, but the right side almost looks brighter than the left, even though I know that the PPFD is 30 points lower. Could it be how the blue/white is perceived compared to the yellow ?
The 14k is getting more white each day as it burns in.. that or we are just getting more used to it and noticing the blue aspects of it less each day ?
I like the 14K from the looks in that picture. I must have missed the fact that you were running 250 HQIs. That makes more sense with the wattage difference. I have too stop reading these threads in the wee hours of the morning. Is there any noiticeable difference in polyp extension yet with the 14K? I am only running 3X250W Coralvue ballasts with 10K reefoptics on a 30" tank. I'm still a bit bill shy to hook up my 400W ballasts. I will be curious to see how this plays out, both with the coral growth and the PG&E.
Where is Sanjays site that reviews the lighting specs? I haven't seen that one yet.
Where is Sanjays site that reviews the lighting specs? I haven't seen that one yet.
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