The inwall 380 starfire reborn

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The more I read and the more I look at the tank the more I am leaning towards picking up a long spined urchin. Anyone have any experiences with these around SPS, Zoas, Clams, LPS, RBTAs ? (no real softies outside of a small rock of gold laced cloves that can easily and readily be relocated into the prop tank :)).
 
Ok, so I can't seem to leave well enough alone :). I am rethinking some of our lighting decisions. We installed the VHOs to give the from LPS a bit of an actinic boost. Since we had some actinic-white bulbs already we used those. While they don't really have that much in the way of the actinic pop, they do still help the zoos, etc, a little bit in the way of color. We liked how just the two 24" bulbs across the front did a decent job of lighting the entire tank (enough that the fish came out and the zoos, clams, etc also responded). so we are in the process of reducing our MH photo period down to 6 hours while leaving the actinic at 12, for our viewing pleasure. The halides were on longer initially so that we had more viewing time with the tank, with the VHos that was no longer necessary (and also an unnecessary expense) Dropping the MHs down to 6 hours will save approx $30 per month in electricity. And the VHOs only run about $12 per month to run (which we were going to run anyways.. they stay one even after the halides come on, to supplement the blue in the front). One other advantage was that the VHOs across the front helped to fill in the front corners with light, giving a more pleasing overall appearance. Even if we left the halides at the full photoperiod, the improvement in appearance was worth the $12 per month.

Ok, so that is where we are today.. now on to where I want to be tomorrow :)

To give a little background when I went searching for the switched outlets I came across quite a bit of DJ equipment that aparently is also being used on reef tanks and also exchanged information with people who used equipment frmo chauvet and American DJ versus a controller, like our AC Jr (but I am not about to give up our AC Jr just yet :)). Well, all of that talk got me to thinking (which is a dangerous thing indeed :)). So I went hunting around the places where I found the remote outlet controller set that I posted about earlier today. And I found this :

http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Pack-White-E2...hZ003QQcategoryZ20706QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

It is an LED lamp, made to screw into a standard 110v mogul light/lamp socket. It puts out a white light and is rated for 100,000 hours (at 12 hours per day that is over 15 years) and it draw just over 1.5 w per light. So I got to thinking what I could do with the 4 pack that was for sale there (albeit they are a bit pricey and I don't like the spot ligth form factor, but still, could be interesting). While I don't expect them to grow corals, they could be just the ticket for lighting the tank in the morning and evening, and even possibly providing some fill lighting to the corners, etc, during the day (during the MH photo period). While the lower light corals do fine in the corners, it is sometimes hard to see them from the front of the tank due to the lower light and the distance to the back. For pennies a month to operate (after the initial expense) I could possibly remedy that. If I were to fashion a rudimentary reflector it might help with the lighting spread concerns that I have (there are several cheap ones commerically avilable for regular light bulbs)

I don't think I would go with such an expensive version.. but am going to hunt for some smaller ones (38 LEDs is a bit much). I also have seen LED light bars at Home Depot and Lowes, so maybe looking there is my next step, although I would need to check wattage draw, etc.


Anyone have any thoughts on the topic ? Anyone already tried this ? already using it on their reef still ?

Thanks for listening to me talking out loud as I think through all of this :)
 
well, based on invincible569's build thread, I would say it could be very beneficial. His spot-lighting scheme is very interesting and you may be able to achieve the same visual effect with the LED lamps.
 
I need to catch up on his thread. I got behind a while back and just haven't devoted the time to catching up :(. I would be interested in reading about his spot-lighting efforts and results. I am assuming that he is using halid spotlights instead of LED ones ? (I guess I just need to read up and find out for myself !!! :))

Thanks for the heads up Jonathan :)
 
yeah, what he is doing is very interesting. He is using halides but at a considerable distance from the water.
 
hunting around a bit I came across this :

http://chauvetlighting.com/fixtures/ledtechstrobeuv_fix.shtml

a blacklight LED panel for use in a dance club. Rated coverage is a strong 20ft with intensity tapering off beyond 20ft X 20ft (of course that is anticipating a height of 10' or more I would have to guess. But it still makes me wonder what that would look like and what it would do over a reef tank ? I have not heard of anyone putting a blacklight over a tank, only actinics. It is kind of hard to ignore when looking at a purchase price of around $170 and a wattage draw of 12W (yea, that's it) and an indefinite duty cycle (and 15+ year lifespan -- @ 12 hours per day).

anyone have any info on a black light versus actinics ? Actinics make things flouresce, just like a black light does, but why do I get the feeling that they are fundamentally different ?
 
After a bit more reading and lots of thought I plan to start sourcing the parts to build our own LED array. So far none that I have found are anywhere near what I am looking for. In essence I want to put a ring of LEDs (both blue/UV and white) around the LA III reflectors and acorss the front of the tank. Most units have 190+ LEDs with control features, etc. and run for less than 15W (with unlimited duty cycles). By my calculations I shouldn't need more than 150 LEDs total, so I should be able to build the LED array cheaply enough. I don't plan on any fancy control scheme, just on/off for the Blue/UV and White separately. If i can work in a dimming function without a major expense, then that would be a bonus, but not needed (since I don't have that now).

The way I figure it (which I may be overlooking something) is I need the following :

1. A supply of good quality white LEDs
2. A supply of good quality blue/UV LEDs
3. A power source
4. A mounting grid or frame of some sort for mounting the LEDs to

Other things like wire, plugs, soldering iron, etc are a given and easy enough to come by, so I didn't list them.

Mounting bracket could be anything from breadbord mounted onto aluminum channel to just the square stock/channel itself, although for mounting the LEDs I would think stout aluminum flat stock would work better (of which I ironically have some left over from our last lighting rack upgrade :)). So that takes care of #4. The power source would just need to be a transformer, and that will depend wholly on the LEDs themselves (IE: whatever they would require, for the input voltage and current capacity requirements). So #3 is not a big concern (Radio Shack has a pretty robust selection of transformers, and I even have a milk crate full of old transformers and laptop power supplies in storage).

That just leaves #1 and #2. So if anyone has a source for good quality LEDs, both white and Blue/UV, please let me know (by posting or PM). I would like to find some with high lumens/watt ratings, long duty cycle and long lifespan (service hours).

I basically plan one row of LEDs down the sides of the tank and across the back, 2 rows down the middle (between the 2 LA III reflectors) and 2 - 4 rows across the front. I would think the rows would need to be UV, UV, White, UV, UV White, etc. And the doubled up rows would be staggered from one row to the next one beside it (so that 2 whites would not be side by side). Until I get the LEDs and experiment I couldn't say about spacing, or if more rows were warranted (or maybe desired since they wouldn't add much to the electrical expense).

Any feedback, advice or suggestions would be most welcomed.. thanks :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10197941#post10197941 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sparkss


1. A supply of good quality white LEDs
2. A supply of good quality blue/UV LEDs
3. A power source
4. A mounting grid or frame of some sort for mounting the LEDs to
Any feedback, advice or suggestions would be most welcomed.. thanks :)


call me i might have a really good source for the LED lights you are looking for.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10197832#post10197832 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sparkss
hunting around a bit I came across this :

http://chauvetlighting.com/fixtures/ledtechstrobeuv_fix.shtml

a blacklight LED panel for use in a dance club. Rated coverage is a strong 20ft with intensity tapering off beyond 20ft X 20ft (of course that is anticipating a height of 10' or more I would have to guess. But it still makes me wonder what that would look like and what it would do over a reef tank ? I have not heard of anyone putting a blacklight over a tank, only actinics. It is kind of hard to ignore when looking at a purchase price of around $170 and a wattage draw of 12W (yea, that's it) and an indefinite duty cycle (and 15+ year lifespan -- @ 12 hours per day).

anyone have any info on a black light versus actinics ? Actinics make things flouresce, just like a black light does, but why do I get the feeling that they are fundamentally different ?

Sparkss. I used to have a blacklight on one of my tanks, someone told me it could cause the fish to go blind or something like that so I stopped using it. Im not sure if it's true or not.

I saw that LED you posted, but a white bulb one, it was at that ebay store you linked earlier, here http://cgi.ebay.com/Chauvet-ST-3000...hZ003QQcategoryZ85863QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

I'll read you second post later, not sure if you mentioned this light already
 
Tom,

What you are talking about doing is far more work, cost, and hassle than it is worth IMO. There are several threads on RC about building DIY LED arrays, and I suggest you do some heavy reading before you take that plunge.

Check ouot Zachtos' thread, Primary LED Lit Custom Glas Tank for starters.

What I have surmised from extensive reading on the subject, is that the quality of LED lamps varies greatly, getting them to stay cool is problematic, and therefore results in higher than acceptable losses. Of course, with your electrical experience, you would have a leg up on the average DIYer, but I believe that you could utilize lamps made for other applications without all the issues of DIY.

Another thread to check out with some good links: Solaris vs MH

We have a local reefer with the Solaris on her tank, and I can tell you from taking a close look, it does not give out as much light as MH, but it is a very cool device in how it does sunrise and sunset. However, she can't keep light loving animals alive in there AFAICT. When I researched LED lighting, the quotes I got to light my display with the equivalent of three 1000W MH were above $100K. What I was told is it just takes that many LEDs to get the PAR needed.

Anyway, as I stated before, to get a good "visual effect", I think LEDs can be very helpful. I know there are a lot of foreign reefers using various spotlamps to highlight their corals much in the same way a gallery highlights paintings to make them more pleasing to look at. But for that purpose, any LED spot would be just fine. Sherman has a compact LED flashlight that is so intense it is literally blinding, and I am sure you could find adequate stuff to use without having to build it yourself. :)
 
Spazz
Will do. I have some major house renovations to take care of this weekend due to a washing machine mishap that flooded part of our house (I HATE doing sheetrock work.. and painting). But once I come up for air I will definitely give you a shout about that.. thanks :)

Mario
Yea, I am not 100% sure about the black lights either. The true blacklight LEDs are called UV LEDs and have warnings about looking directly into them with unprotected eyes since they give off excess UV radiation, which we already know is not good for our tanks, unless controlled (IE: in a UV sterilizer or behind UV protected glass). All I really want/need is one that peaks around 420 - 450 nm. I have ordered a 25 bulb strip light (their smallest) from here : http://www.acolyteled.com/s1-striplytes.html to test. Here is what they say about it :
LED Light Strips 25 Ultra-Bright UV/Purple AC
UV-purple AC Fixture with cord and plug

** INDUSTRIAL GRADE LED MANUFACTURER**
Acolyte LED (dot com)

Sealed Ultra Voilet/Purple Ultra-Bright LED Strip!!!

These Ultra Violet (UV) lights are perfect for detecting counterfit:

currency, credit cards and IDs.
A perfect fixture for bars and restaurants.
~ Nothing is cooler than BLACK light ~

*****WATER RESISTANT!!! SOLID CLEAR PLASTIC ENCASEMENT!!! *****


But no information about peak nor any warnings about not looking directly at the lights. I have an Email to the company to try to get those specifics. Maybe the clear encasement brings some UV protection with it ? But I also thought that the UV was what made the corals flouresce (or at least light down into the Ultra Violet range did). Again, I guess it is a matter of how far down into the UV spectrum it goes.

I did see that other Chauvet white LED array, but decided that the shape and form factor were just not what I was looking for. I am thinking of also getting a white strip light from that same company to see how it would look.

The only caveat to getting those strip lights is expense. Both the initial purchase and the running costs are more than I think necessary. Now, let me preface that with the running costs would be $8 per month versus $5 or less... so NOT a big deal.. but I just hate the idea of waste. As I stated, I only intend to use them to supplement the halides, fill in the dark spots and provide sunrise/sunset (and more tank viewing time w/o the high electrical cost halides running). So I don't really feel that the LEDs need to be as close together as the strip lights have them. But I would like to see for myself how they look and how effective they are, both with the halides on and off.

Jonathan
I do not plan to replace the halides with the LED array, but I do plan to replace the VHOs with them, and hope to have the LEDs fill the same role in our lighting scheme as the VHOs do now. That is to fill in the darker spots in the back corners, provide sunrise/sunset and longer viewing times and give some actinic pop to the LPS and zoas in the front of the tank. Adding some "blue" to the back corals and what not would just be a bonus :), and is something that I cannot do with the current VHO setup. I don't think it will cost me that much, but I could be wrong.. a couple of the places I checked were $2 per LED (*uugghh*), but I really haven't done that much research into it all yet. I still have lots more reading to do :) Oh, and the other questions comes from using heat sinkable (or heat sink required LEDs) or the "old style" ones.. the old one would be easier, but the newer, more efficient (lumen per watt) ones usually all require heatsinks, which increase the design complexity a little and change the materials and mounting aspects of the LEDs a bit.






If anyone has any information on the use of UV LEDs over a reef tank, please let me know. I know that URI stands for Ultraviolet Reseach Institute, so it is implied that they use UV bulbs, I guess it is all a matter of how much UV protection is used. I definitely have alot more reading to do :(. I also wondered about using the UV LEDs but having them high enough up off of the tank to disperse the light, if that would sufficiently disperse the possible hazards of using them ? Soo many questions, too few answers.. well, the Solaris fixtures have 20K equivalient LEDs, so they are out there :)

Back onto the outlet controller front, I did find another one on Ebay, this one from American DJ, if anyone was interested :) :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220123252496&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=012

DSC01321.jpg


Looks to be similar to the Chauvet that we ordered
 
little bit of an update. the Chauvet controller shipped yesterday and should be here next Monday (if you can believe DHL tracking :)).

I spoke to Lawrence over at Acolyte Industries today and got the wavelnength specs for their LEDs.. the UVs run at 41 - 430 nm, the blues at 460 - 470 nm and the whites at 6500 Kelvin. We have a 25 LED fixture of the UV and Blue on the way and a 50 LED of the white. They are shipping them today so I expect them the first of next week also. I had a very good talk with Lawrence and was pleasantly surprised at the level of customer service they provided. Our order was very small in comparison to the 500 and 1000 lot runs that I got the impression they were used to dealing with. While their prices are not cheap, from what I have seen they are a discount for the product offerred (and you all know how we like our industrial grade components for our tank :)). Once they arrive I will be able to test and report on build quality and amount of light provided (Both by themselves and what they can do to supplement the halides). I am hoping that they will be strong enough not to get washed out by the halides, but am not sure. I wish we could have swung 50 light units for all 3, but it just wasn't in the budget for us, not just for testing purposes. Those might have done a better job of overcoming the halide wash, but we will see once the ones we have ordered arrive :). Either way we could light the whole tank (minust the halides) for approximately 23W, with a mix of 6500K and 460nm light.

Here is the link to their home page : http://www.acolyteled.com , if you have any questions there is contact info there, IIRC. Lawrence should be the one who responds to your questions, and if so, then you will be in good hands :) (he also is willing to talk %% off of ther web site price.. if you want to order something now.. or you can just wait until I post the results of our testing next week :)).


So definitely check back once the outlet control unti and LED striplytes get here for the results of our testing :)
 
Added a small Diadema setosum today. The test was barely a inch or two across (I read the max size is 4"). I will try to get a pciture of it tomorrow.. not much else to report. The LEDs shipped today. Once everything gets here I will definitely have some design and build pictures to post :)
 
Update on your battery backup setup? Is yours as simple as it sounds. It looks like as long as you get a good inverter, it is pretty straight forward.
I just don't want to burn down the house.
Nice Thread.
 
Pretty straight forward. That is all a UPS is. Some UPS don't even have a cut over switch, then just have a charger, battery and inverter. Power is always derived from the batteries and inverter. The ones with 0 cut over time and also talk about conditioning spikes and voltage (they provide very stable power because the source, the batteries, is a very stable one.). Just make sure that you charge the batteries in a well ventilated area as they can give off gases when charging.


Minor update on the tank :) :

We had what I thought was another shrimp spawning tonight (we get them a couple of times a month, in the evenings). But the wife (who has better eyes than I do :)) IDed them as long bodied fish... so it is likely our orchid/indigo dottybacks spawning, which would make sense since one of the orchids has been AWOL for a while... so it was likely guarding the eggs in their burrow. When she told me fish I thought it might have been our mandarin pair, or clown pair, but the long body suggests the dottybacks. Several fish were sucking up the little ones as they swam around the tank. I also think that our neon goby pair might have a mutal burrow/cave somewhere. They seem to be quite inseparable lately, always doing "synchronized swimming" around the front right corner of the tank :). We are also trying to sex our single banggai (sp?) to fins him/her a suitable mate (like we did for our mandarin :)).

The unrchin headed to the back of the tank last night and I didn't see him tonight (but I honestly didn't look that hard). Other than that everything seems to be in order :)
 
The Chauvet arrived today. It was pretty painless to install, replacing the existing power strip we had mounted in the wall.

Here is the control unit along side some of our meters and controller

Chauvet_001.jpg


and here is the controller outlets, you can see the included 25' 9 pin connector plugged into the top here. They can be chained to add a second set of 8 outlets, but I think those are only good for adding to the chase sequence (Which I don't plan to use with this setup).

Chauvet_002.jpg


and here is a closer shot of the controller with my make shift labels for each swtich.. as you can see we are only using 6 of the 8 switched outlets (the one unswtiched feeds the AC Jr controller and other monitors next to the Chauvet controller, as well as the Chauvet controller itself).


Chauvet_003.jpg


I had to back the Calcium reactor off a bit. I had been adjusting the flow and went too high, our dkh hit 12.. since our target is 9, that is just a bit off target (heavy sarcasm). I backed the flow off quite a bit, but left it running to drop the alk slowly.
 
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