The Moorish Idol Thread
- Thread starter zfunk007
- Start date
Did you feed him the entire sponge? If so, how long did it take for him to finish it off?
Also, can I put a sponge in my refugium and just break pieces off of it every few days or so, just to make sure he doesn't eat it too fast? Will the sponge survive that?
And, do you think it makes a difference if he gets fed live sponge or the frozen Angel & Butterfly food??
Thanx =)
Also, can I put a sponge in my refugium and just break pieces off of it every few days or so, just to make sure he doesn't eat it too fast? Will the sponge survive that?
And, do you think it makes a difference if he gets fed live sponge or the frozen Angel & Butterfly food??
Thanx =)
MrTuskfish
Team RC
Prior to Katrina, I had 2 MIs that lived spongeless for about 10 years. Since moving, I've had 2 for about 6 yrs . The only sponge they get is in occasional feedings of frozen angel foods that have some sponge. I know they like sponge, but I'm not convinced they need it. Acclimation is the tough part, after that, they will eat absolutely anything. (IMO & IME). One good author says some may need sponge to acclimate; but doesn't consider it essential in the diet. The same is true of many large angels; they have developed a diet that includes sponge and can be hard to feed because of that need. But, the same species, raised from a juvi, will do just fine without it.
Paul B
Premium Member
I collect the sponge and freeze it, the cold water sponge I collect does not live in a tropical tank even for a few hours. I feed the entire thing and he would eat about a tablespoon at a time but I gave him less than that with clams and worms. They can and do live without sponge but in the 5 or 6 times I dove with them, that is the only thing I ever saw them eat although they will eat anything, even cardboard if you put clam juice on it. I also gave him banannas which he loved. After I freeze the banannas, it has the same consistancy as aponge.
MrTuskfish
Team RC
I thought I was the only one feeding frozen bananas occasionally. Tangs love them too. You're right about them eating anything, they are true omnivores. My Friend & Helper calls them an insulting Spanish term for ''garbage eaters''. I don't get involved with Idol threads often; but I think a lot of folks make a big mistake when the assume Idols are herbivores and try to acclimate them with all sorts of veggies. I failed with 2 Idols (about 1995) before I got the next two eating. , then the two when I moved. First food was always a fresh clam I have no idea why so many Idols refuse to eat; but I suspect its something a lot more complicated than just a lack of sponge. IME, once these fish eat anything; they're easy, as long as you provide proper accommodations.
Paul B
Premium Member
I don't know either but I think it has something to do with the way they eat in the sea. All of them that I followed were mated pairs and the male would go first and find the food, which was always a lime green, sticky sponge. The female was 50 or so yards behind and I don't know how she found him but when she got there, the male would leave and look for more sponge. There seemed to only be one pair on a large area of reef.
In deeper water I did see single Idols and I don't know how they were eating, they just seemed to be picking at everything.
You can see one lone Idol at the bottom center of this picture I took in Tahiti but most of them I saw were in pairs.
Maybe some females just don't find food on their own. They are a very common fish in the South Pacific
MrTuskfish
Team RC
I've seen Idols eating sponge too, also remember a pair snapping at some unfamiliar type of shrimp. They sure are a lot of these fish, lots of folks assume they're rare. They even live in the commercial ports in Hawaii....not exactly pristine water.
gofor100
New member
Yeah... I think it's multiple factors at play as to why they can be difficult fish to keep.
Some fish are simply not good shippers... and I'll have to assume that Idols are included in this list mainly because you see so many that aren't in good shape from the beginning when they hit the LFS.
From this stems a multitude of other issues... mainly getting them to eat again after the stress they have been under. And for those that can get them eating again, it's probably not a bad idea to try and feed them anything and everything (not necessarily sponge, but it sure won't hurt), although it seems that plenty have fed only NLS pellets with success (I feed these, but in addition to a medley of other foods including a frozen food that has sponge as the first ingredient).
I think another issue that people have (mainly by looking through this thread) is not sticking to a strict QT process with the Idol and all fish before and after. They tend to be pretty hardy once settled in, but there seem to be multiple deaths that were "mysterious" or resulted after a significant change occurred in the tank. My guess is this is probably related to there inability to recover as well as other fish, and if there is an unknown parasite or disease waiting to pounce when a fish's immunity is weakened, it seems the Idol is one of the first to go.
Some of this is pure speculation on my part since I've only kept mine for a couple of months and am by no means an expert, but just my thoughts.
Here's one of my more recent pics...
He's definitely thickened up since he began to eat pellets in the last week of my quarantine.
-Chad
Some fish are simply not good shippers... and I'll have to assume that Idols are included in this list mainly because you see so many that aren't in good shape from the beginning when they hit the LFS.
From this stems a multitude of other issues... mainly getting them to eat again after the stress they have been under. And for those that can get them eating again, it's probably not a bad idea to try and feed them anything and everything (not necessarily sponge, but it sure won't hurt), although it seems that plenty have fed only NLS pellets with success (I feed these, but in addition to a medley of other foods including a frozen food that has sponge as the first ingredient).
I think another issue that people have (mainly by looking through this thread) is not sticking to a strict QT process with the Idol and all fish before and after. They tend to be pretty hardy once settled in, but there seem to be multiple deaths that were "mysterious" or resulted after a significant change occurred in the tank. My guess is this is probably related to there inability to recover as well as other fish, and if there is an unknown parasite or disease waiting to pounce when a fish's immunity is weakened, it seems the Idol is one of the first to go.
Some of this is pure speculation on my part since I've only kept mine for a couple of months and am by no means an expert, but just my thoughts.
Here's one of my more recent pics...
He's definitely thickened up since he began to eat pellets in the last week of my quarantine.
-Chad
gofor100
New member
Oh, and on a side-note related to Paul's observations of MI's swimming in pairs, with one of them searching for the food, nibbling, then moving on to find the next spot... in the first week or so of me quarantining my MI, I was working in the garage (where my 60 gallon QT is), and I noticed that my MI was doing just that. It would swim up to the rock I rubberbanded some scallop/clam to, nibble at it, then swim around a little, then come back to the rock, swim again and repeat this process. I don't know if it was just stir crazy being in only a 60 gallon tank, or if it was re-enacting Paul's observations, but I thought this was very interesting and forgot to bring it up on this thread.
He doesn't seem to do it anymore, but then again, he is now competing with other fish for his food, so it's probably for the best.
-Chad
He doesn't seem to do it anymore, but then again, he is now competing with other fish for his food, so it's probably for the best.
-Chad
Outerbank
New member
I have never fed mine sponge. I have owned 2 MIs. The first lived 4 years until I had a long move and had to transfer everything to an unestablished tank (ammonia spike). The current MI will be 4yrs in a couple months. I would feed some sponge if I could get it easily, but they will survive on a varied diet.
As stated above, I believe acclimation from captivity is very important.
Paul B
Premium Member
A moorish Idol is not a difficult fish, it is an impossable fish. I can say that because not one has lived in a hobbiests tank for it's normal lifespan which for a fish of that size should be close to 20 years as practically all other fish of that size live.
I know we all think it is a home run because we can keep them 4 or 5 years but that is a mistake and a horrible lifespan for this animal. Practically all the fish I keep live much longer than that and a moorish Idol is not rare, they import thousands of them.
Hopefully in the very near future we learn their secrets because with this fish, it is just not working.
I know we all think it is a home run because we can keep them 4 or 5 years but that is a mistake and a horrible lifespan for this animal. Practically all the fish I keep live much longer than that and a moorish Idol is not rare, they import thousands of them.
Hopefully in the very near future we learn their secrets because with this fish, it is just not working.
Outerbank
New member
I haven't had the opportunity to see if my MI will live that long. I assume that is true for most people that own one. There are inherent problems in keeping any marine organism alive in an artificial closed environment that relies on electricity, additives, feedings, and artificial nutrient export. How many 6 month wild MI make it to 20 years old in he wild? I have no idea, but I will bet the odds are very, very low and perhaps it has never happened. It is EXTREMELY rare for most fish to survive to full longevity (how many Goliath grouper live to 40? Virtually none and they have very few predators after they reach a certain size). The biggest problem with MIs, IMO, is that people keep making the same mistakes over and over when they buy one. They are very sensitive during the acclimation period. They need to be purchased healthy, young, small, and usually within a few days of appearing at the LFS, quarantined in a medium size mature QT, transitioned to varied foods through frequent, almost hourly tiny feedings, progress feedings before adding to DT, placed in a DT that is mature and lacking too aggressive fish, have good swimming room, fed a lot, and the DT needs to be stable and process waste without an issue. Then just avoid the mistakes that lead to tank crashes, illness, poor circulation, etc. I only lost my first one because I moved 440 miles, the landlord had not turned on the water when I arrived, and I had given away 95% of my tank prior to the move. Otherwise, I bet that fish would be 9 years old as the other fish which survived are still in my tank.
Paul B
Premium Member
That may be true but I have never heard of even "one" moorish Idol surviving past ten years. There is something we are missing with these fish. I also lost mine to an accident after only five years but my fish usually live much longer than that. I have clownfish 18 years old and I had other fish just as long.
9 years for a moorish Idol is still a lousy lifespan. I am not saying I have such good luck with them, I had quite a few of them and the longest I kept it was only 5 years.
If any of my fish die in that short a time, I take it as a failure.
My tank is just as liable to have power failures and mis haps as any other tank and I even went through the expense to go to the South Pacific to spend time with Idols in the sea. I found a sponge that they love and I designed a feeder that feeds them as many times a day as I feel is necessary. I think that now I can keep one long term but my tank isn't big enough so I will not get one.
How many people say they bought a moorish Idol and it eats flakes so I know it will live a long time? It will not. If we just buy one and feed it normal aquarium food and keep it healthy with no stress and no predators, it still will not live long term as not one has done in captivity in a hobbiests tank.
It is not my place to tell anyone not to get a moorish Idol, that is certainly up to the individual, but remember, just because you see it eat flakes at the LFS, don't get excited, they eat everything and look great, but for some reason, eventually they just stop eating, and wither away. Not just one or two, but all of them.
Does anyone on here have one for ten years? How about five?
How many lost one in 2 years?
Scott, you are a successful reefkeeper and you know that fish like a tang can easily live for 18 years, maybe 30, we don't know yet but longivity for this fish is eluding us.
I hope we eventually figure it out, because they are argueably the best looking fish out there.
9 years for a moorish Idol is still a lousy lifespan. I am not saying I have such good luck with them, I had quite a few of them and the longest I kept it was only 5 years.
If any of my fish die in that short a time, I take it as a failure.
My tank is just as liable to have power failures and mis haps as any other tank and I even went through the expense to go to the South Pacific to spend time with Idols in the sea. I found a sponge that they love and I designed a feeder that feeds them as many times a day as I feel is necessary. I think that now I can keep one long term but my tank isn't big enough so I will not get one.
How many people say they bought a moorish Idol and it eats flakes so I know it will live a long time? It will not. If we just buy one and feed it normal aquarium food and keep it healthy with no stress and no predators, it still will not live long term as not one has done in captivity in a hobbiests tank.
It is not my place to tell anyone not to get a moorish Idol, that is certainly up to the individual, but remember, just because you see it eat flakes at the LFS, don't get excited, they eat everything and look great, but for some reason, eventually they just stop eating, and wither away. Not just one or two, but all of them.
Does anyone on here have one for ten years? How about five?
How many lost one in 2 years?
Scott, you are a successful reefkeeper and you know that fish like a tang can easily live for 18 years, maybe 30, we don't know yet but longivity for this fish is eluding us.
I hope we eventually figure it out, because they are argueably the best looking fish out there.
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MrTuskfish
Team RC
The two I lost to Katrina had about 10 years in my tank. The 2 I have now have been with me for 6+ years. All thriving.
gofor100
New member
Honestly, and I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this, I think the main cause of our fish dying (not just the MI) before their life expectancy would indicate is pure laziness. I'm guilty along with everyone else since it is somewhat natural to be on top of things for only periods of time then slack a little here and there.
First it's skimping on water changes, then frequency of feedings, then quality of food, then equipment maintenance, then [insert what you've stopped doing or changed in your tank maintenance lately]... all of these can add up and when you have a sensitive fish in your tank, one day "out of the blue" they will die. Not from just one thing, but from several things that added up and took its toll on the fish.
Not only that, but many people have gotten away from properly acclimating all of their fish, much less acclimating/quarantining their MI. Time will tell, but I think this is a huge part as Scott/Outerbank would probably attest.
I'm not saying that my MI will live to 20 years (although I hope it does), but I think I've given it the best chance by doing what I've described before.
If you're not going to give it the best chance, then you shouldn't get this fish (or any others for that matter).
Just my opinion,
Chad
FYI- this is just a rant... not directed to anyone on this thread.
First it's skimping on water changes, then frequency of feedings, then quality of food, then equipment maintenance, then [insert what you've stopped doing or changed in your tank maintenance lately]... all of these can add up and when you have a sensitive fish in your tank, one day "out of the blue" they will die. Not from just one thing, but from several things that added up and took its toll on the fish.
Not only that, but many people have gotten away from properly acclimating all of their fish, much less acclimating/quarantining their MI. Time will tell, but I think this is a huge part as Scott/Outerbank would probably attest.
I'm not saying that my MI will live to 20 years (although I hope it does), but I think I've given it the best chance by doing what I've described before.
If you're not going to give it the best chance, then you shouldn't get this fish (or any others for that matter).
Just my opinion,
Chad
FYI- this is just a rant... not directed to anyone on this thread.
