I wonder where Randall got the info to make the comment of 10 years in captivity...
The Moorish Idol Thread
- Thread starter zfunk007
- Start date
I wonder where Randall got the info to make the comment of 10 years in captivity...
Moorish_Idol
New member
Man they look fat and healthy! What size tank do you have?
Allmost
New member
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2159809&highlight=moorish+idol
MrTuskfish has kept his for more than 10 years.
and reports of many reefers keeping theirs for over 10 years as well.
so I guess we can up the expected longitivity of this fish.
MrTuskfish has kept his for more than 10 years.
and reports of many reefers keeping theirs for over 10 years as well.
so I guess we can up the expected longitivity of this fish.
plecosword
New member
I was not able to keep them alive. I tried with 5 different specimens, it did not take long to get each one to eat pellets and frozen food, but no matter how much I feed them, they would always look anorexic, and eventually would die from any small stress like a water change.
AliciaP
New member
Phew! What a read!
Phew! What a read!
I have two of my most used LFS's in Western NY looking into getting me one of these amazing fish. They tell me not to as most don't like more than a few weeks. While I appreciate them not feeding me bull to get my money, I told them I would like to give it a go as I feel that you all have made great steps in the life of the Idol and I can hopefully follow in those footsepts. My 125 gallon tank is stocked with 3 blue/green chromis, 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 bicolor blenny, 1 dusky jawfish, 1 peppermint shrimp, and snails and hermits. I am getting a yellow tang coming in next Friday and hope to get a mandarin sometime in the future (my LR has so many pods they could carry it away)
Okay... my question. I only have a 10g QT. Worth it or not worth putting him through that? I've asked for a small one, but it still may be too small. I read here that they might stress less if I just put him right into the DT. Either way I go, what's the best way to be as sure as possible that he's clean? Or just hope that my system and garlic supplements will sustain him through any parasites and not kill him and everything else.
By the way... took me a week to get to the end. I now have a very frustrated husband because I've been leaving the two year old to him and trying to read in the evenings lol
Phew! What a read!
I have two of my most used LFS's in Western NY looking into getting me one of these amazing fish. They tell me not to as most don't like more than a few weeks. While I appreciate them not feeding me bull to get my money, I told them I would like to give it a go as I feel that you all have made great steps in the life of the Idol and I can hopefully follow in those footsepts. My 125 gallon tank is stocked with 3 blue/green chromis, 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 bicolor blenny, 1 dusky jawfish, 1 peppermint shrimp, and snails and hermits. I am getting a yellow tang coming in next Friday and hope to get a mandarin sometime in the future (my LR has so many pods they could carry it away)
Okay... my question. I only have a 10g QT. Worth it or not worth putting him through that? I've asked for a small one, but it still may be too small. I read here that they might stress less if I just put him right into the DT. Either way I go, what's the best way to be as sure as possible that he's clean? Or just hope that my system and garlic supplements will sustain him through any parasites and not kill him and everything else.
By the way... took me a week to get to the end. I now have a very frustrated husband because I've been leaving the two year old to him and trying to read in the evenings lol
AliciaP
New member
Yeah, as I suspected. I didn't think it would be good for him. What is my non quarantine option? can I give him a dip of some sort?
AliciaP
New member
I may setup a 30 gallon in my kitchen. I don't trust one of the LFS's to quarantine the idol knowing how much work needs to go into it and the other will jack the price up $20 to put it in their tanks first. I'm getting it as soon as it's delivered and haven't heard if they have found a small one yet.
Thank you for your help everyone! I'm so worried that a QT would do more damage than good.:worried:
Thank you for your help everyone! I'm so worried that a QT would do more damage than good.:worried:
gofor100
New member
Well, I finally took the plunge...
I've been researching this fish for quite while (as can be evidenced by my post back at the beginning of this whole thread... before the split) and I've finally come to the point where I'm somewhat comfortable taking the risk and have a tank that I feel is large enough to house one.
I, like Paul, have spent a decent amount of dive-time in the South Pacific (dove in Australia, Fiji, and Hawaii, but not Tahiti... YET) and am always drawn to following these awesome fish. What I've observed seem to match what Paul has except I have seen plenty of Idols swim in more than just pairs... I've seen singles and groups of three quite often, but pairs are probably the most common. Groups of 4+ are probably more common when they are juveniles, more for protection since they don't seem to have any other form of protection (i.e., like tangs), but in all of my dives, I haven't personally seen this schooling behavior.
Here are some pics of my most recent Fiji trip (last summer)... as Paul can attest, they definitely are always on the move and don't stay in any one spot for very long. Although, the best way I can describe their natural behavior is a mix between a tang and a butterfly/angel... they are often "hugging" the rockwork in search of their next meal (like a butterfly), but seem to have more of a purpose in their swimming and do tend to swim longer distances before stopping (more similar to tangs).
As for my personal quest to keep one of these beautiful fish, it really came into being more than just a dream late last year when I got the green light from my wife to upgrade tanks. I decided that I would get the largest tank I could fit into our current home (60"L X 30"W X 24"T) and set it up as a SPS-dominant tank with the Moorish Idol as the centerpiece (no tangs that will possibly harass it).
Here's a recent pic of the tank... I wanted to leave some pretty open swimming room for the fish, knowing the Idol would appreciate some swim-throughs. Also, since it isn't the "longest" tank, I decided added depth (front-to-back) wouldn't hurt either, and created the "twin-peaks" look for more swimming room in the middle of the tank.
So that brings us to last Friday, when I happend to stop in a LFS that I frequent and noticed they had 2 Moorish Idols in one of their tanks. As always, I asked them to feed them (I tend to do this out of habit with Moorish Idols even when I wasn't looking to purchase), and both of them ate and actually looked pretty healthy. The smaller one of the two seemed to be a more aggressive eater, so, since I was in the market for one finally, I decided to have them bag him/her up.
Luckily, I've been using my old 60 gallon tank as my QT (with my old skimmer taking care of filtration). I tried feeding it (not being overly optimistic) within a couple of hours of placing it in the tank and it was eating frozen vitamin enriched brine quite nicely. Here it is the first night in the tank...
And here it is just a couple of days after (as you can see, it's streamer has been growing quite fast)...
I did notice a couple of ick spots on it last Monday night, so, although I was planning on treating with Cupramine anyways, I started treatment a little earlier than I'd hoped in order to prevent an outbreak and additional stress on the fish. So far, so good... it is still eating brine (which I feed with a mixture of other frozen foods 3-4 times a day). I've seen it eat smaller pieces of mysis here and there along with small bits of an angelfish/butteflyfish frozen food, but not nearly as much as the brine. During the week, I'll place some garlic-soaked Nori on a clip and rubberband a slice of garlic-soaked scallop to a rock so that it has something to munch on while I'm at work. It seems to be working so far since it has maintained/gained weight in the week that I've had it.
So, my plan is to continue to feed the heck out of it and try to acclimate it to various foods (including pellets), and after my QT (4 weeks of treatment with Cupramine and 1 week with Prazipro) hopefully have a nice healthy Moorish Idol to place in my DT.
Wish me luck!
-Chad
I've been researching this fish for quite while (as can be evidenced by my post back at the beginning of this whole thread... before the split) and I've finally come to the point where I'm somewhat comfortable taking the risk and have a tank that I feel is large enough to house one.
I, like Paul, have spent a decent amount of dive-time in the South Pacific (dove in Australia, Fiji, and Hawaii, but not Tahiti... YET) and am always drawn to following these awesome fish. What I've observed seem to match what Paul has except I have seen plenty of Idols swim in more than just pairs... I've seen singles and groups of three quite often, but pairs are probably the most common. Groups of 4+ are probably more common when they are juveniles, more for protection since they don't seem to have any other form of protection (i.e., like tangs), but in all of my dives, I haven't personally seen this schooling behavior.
Here are some pics of my most recent Fiji trip (last summer)... as Paul can attest, they definitely are always on the move and don't stay in any one spot for very long. Although, the best way I can describe their natural behavior is a mix between a tang and a butterfly/angel... they are often "hugging" the rockwork in search of their next meal (like a butterfly), but seem to have more of a purpose in their swimming and do tend to swim longer distances before stopping (more similar to tangs).
As for my personal quest to keep one of these beautiful fish, it really came into being more than just a dream late last year when I got the green light from my wife to upgrade tanks. I decided that I would get the largest tank I could fit into our current home (60"L X 30"W X 24"T) and set it up as a SPS-dominant tank with the Moorish Idol as the centerpiece (no tangs that will possibly harass it).
Here's a recent pic of the tank... I wanted to leave some pretty open swimming room for the fish, knowing the Idol would appreciate some swim-throughs. Also, since it isn't the "longest" tank, I decided added depth (front-to-back) wouldn't hurt either, and created the "twin-peaks" look for more swimming room in the middle of the tank.
So that brings us to last Friday, when I happend to stop in a LFS that I frequent and noticed they had 2 Moorish Idols in one of their tanks. As always, I asked them to feed them (I tend to do this out of habit with Moorish Idols even when I wasn't looking to purchase), and both of them ate and actually looked pretty healthy. The smaller one of the two seemed to be a more aggressive eater, so, since I was in the market for one finally, I decided to have them bag him/her up.
Luckily, I've been using my old 60 gallon tank as my QT (with my old skimmer taking care of filtration). I tried feeding it (not being overly optimistic) within a couple of hours of placing it in the tank and it was eating frozen vitamin enriched brine quite nicely. Here it is the first night in the tank...
And here it is just a couple of days after (as you can see, it's streamer has been growing quite fast)...
I did notice a couple of ick spots on it last Monday night, so, although I was planning on treating with Cupramine anyways, I started treatment a little earlier than I'd hoped in order to prevent an outbreak and additional stress on the fish. So far, so good... it is still eating brine (which I feed with a mixture of other frozen foods 3-4 times a day). I've seen it eat smaller pieces of mysis here and there along with small bits of an angelfish/butteflyfish frozen food, but not nearly as much as the brine. During the week, I'll place some garlic-soaked Nori on a clip and rubberband a slice of garlic-soaked scallop to a rock so that it has something to munch on while I'm at work. It seems to be working so far since it has maintained/gained weight in the week that I've had it.
So, my plan is to continue to feed the heck out of it and try to acclimate it to various foods (including pellets), and after my QT (4 weeks of treatment with Cupramine and 1 week with Prazipro) hopefully have a nice healthy Moorish Idol to place in my DT.
Wish me luck!
-Chad
Allmost
New member
gofor100
New member
Well, I'm by means no expert (I don't think anyone can truly say they are with this particular fish yet), but from everything I've read, and everything I've seen personally, it seems that our lack of success doesn't have to do with just ONE thing (i.e., nutrition).
I think if you go back to look at everyone who posted on this thread (and other threads) and lost their idol there were some underlying circumstances that eventually led to the Idol's death.
I can't recall reading one instance where there wasn't one or more of the following factors at play:
> Lack of quarantining/Disease
> Aggressive/Bullying Tankmates/Wrong Environment
> Lack of Varied Diet
> Hobbyist Error
So keeping an MI may not be that much of a mystery, the problem is that at least one of these things seem to always present themselves in our hobby and are difficult to avoid at times.
Here's some steps that I think are almost a requirement to give yourself a chance at having this fish long-term (meaning 10+ years)... I'd like to see if anyone else has anything to add.
Step 1 is starting off on the right foot and properly quarantining not only your MI but ALL of the fish that are introduced before and after the Idol is introduced. If you don't do this, you are most certainly adding a number of parasites (including ick) to the tank, which, by the way, doesn't just disappear. It stays in the tank unnoticed until the opportunity arises for it to attack. Since the Moorish Idol is a fish that can easily be stressed, it is also a fish that can easily succumb to ick. So, if you properly quarantine (hopefully keeping an ick-free tank, or at least a good chance of having one), you are taking away one of the big things that can ultimately lead to the MI's death when a stressor inevitably occurs in the tank. Obviously, you're taking a risk here, since there is a chance that your MI doesn't survive QT. But, the bottomline is long-term success might hinge on this one step.
Step 2 is the environment... either get a tank that is large enough to handle aggression between a similar species of fish (i.e., tangs) and the MI, or choose tankmates that will cause very little stress/competition to the MI. Paul has shown that you can keep a MI in as little as a 100 gallon tank for a number of years given the right circumstances, but even he admitted this was not optimal. You definitely need a "larger" tank, but another huge factor is what the other fish are in the tank. So make a choice... either a MI in a decent sized tank (100+ gallons) as the only large active swimming fish with a medium amount of rock work or placing a MI in a much larger tank with a variety of active swimming fish but with enough room for all of them to occupy the tank comfortably. I think everyone can agree that length of the tank can play a big part, but also "front-to-back" depth can help as well since having a 7 foot long tank with less than 6 inches of swimming room (front-to-back) doesn't help much (taking into consideration some tanks are filled with rock leaving only a little room in the front to actually turn around).
Now that you have an ich-free tank and have it in the right environment, Step 3 is just making sure we maintain a good variety of nutritious food. It is easy to get lazy when feeding fish after you've had them for a while. The key is to stay consistent in trying to feed a variety of stuff daily, mutliple times per day. I think that having an automatic feeder with pellets/flakes helps with this, so that you can program a couple of feedings during the day, then when getting home providing a frozen medley of seafood (scallops, clams, shrimp, etc.) and Nori. Sponge, while being part of their diet in the wild, may not be necessary, but I figure if you can get it, then feed it. For all we know, they can be eating sponge, not because of any specific nutritional value they get (since I think it has been shown to contain very little in nutrition) but purely because it is accessible (since not many other fish eat it) and they don't have to expend much energy to eat it. Who knows...
Everything else might be a little luck... because if we follow the steps above, it is most likely OUR mistake that kills our fish. Whether it is a faulty heater that we didn't catch in time, or electricty going out, or [insert unforeseen but avoidable occurrence here], the only thing we can do is try and learn from our past mistakes and prepare the best we can so it doesn't happen again.
If anyone else has anything to add... feel free. These are just my opinions, and again, I am by no means an expert, just someone that has read and observed this beautiful fish A LOT and wants to share what knowledge/thoughts I've gathered over the years.
-Chad
I think if you go back to look at everyone who posted on this thread (and other threads) and lost their idol there were some underlying circumstances that eventually led to the Idol's death.
I can't recall reading one instance where there wasn't one or more of the following factors at play:
> Lack of quarantining/Disease
> Aggressive/Bullying Tankmates/Wrong Environment
> Lack of Varied Diet
> Hobbyist Error
So keeping an MI may not be that much of a mystery, the problem is that at least one of these things seem to always present themselves in our hobby and are difficult to avoid at times.
Here's some steps that I think are almost a requirement to give yourself a chance at having this fish long-term (meaning 10+ years)... I'd like to see if anyone else has anything to add.
Step 1 is starting off on the right foot and properly quarantining not only your MI but ALL of the fish that are introduced before and after the Idol is introduced. If you don't do this, you are most certainly adding a number of parasites (including ick) to the tank, which, by the way, doesn't just disappear. It stays in the tank unnoticed until the opportunity arises for it to attack. Since the Moorish Idol is a fish that can easily be stressed, it is also a fish that can easily succumb to ick. So, if you properly quarantine (hopefully keeping an ick-free tank, or at least a good chance of having one), you are taking away one of the big things that can ultimately lead to the MI's death when a stressor inevitably occurs in the tank. Obviously, you're taking a risk here, since there is a chance that your MI doesn't survive QT. But, the bottomline is long-term success might hinge on this one step.
Step 2 is the environment... either get a tank that is large enough to handle aggression between a similar species of fish (i.e., tangs) and the MI, or choose tankmates that will cause very little stress/competition to the MI. Paul has shown that you can keep a MI in as little as a 100 gallon tank for a number of years given the right circumstances, but even he admitted this was not optimal. You definitely need a "larger" tank, but another huge factor is what the other fish are in the tank. So make a choice... either a MI in a decent sized tank (100+ gallons) as the only large active swimming fish with a medium amount of rock work or placing a MI in a much larger tank with a variety of active swimming fish but with enough room for all of them to occupy the tank comfortably. I think everyone can agree that length of the tank can play a big part, but also "front-to-back" depth can help as well since having a 7 foot long tank with less than 6 inches of swimming room (front-to-back) doesn't help much (taking into consideration some tanks are filled with rock leaving only a little room in the front to actually turn around).
Now that you have an ich-free tank and have it in the right environment, Step 3 is just making sure we maintain a good variety of nutritious food. It is easy to get lazy when feeding fish after you've had them for a while. The key is to stay consistent in trying to feed a variety of stuff daily, mutliple times per day. I think that having an automatic feeder with pellets/flakes helps with this, so that you can program a couple of feedings during the day, then when getting home providing a frozen medley of seafood (scallops, clams, shrimp, etc.) and Nori. Sponge, while being part of their diet in the wild, may not be necessary, but I figure if you can get it, then feed it. For all we know, they can be eating sponge, not because of any specific nutritional value they get (since I think it has been shown to contain very little in nutrition) but purely because it is accessible (since not many other fish eat it) and they don't have to expend much energy to eat it. Who knows...
Everything else might be a little luck... because if we follow the steps above, it is most likely OUR mistake that kills our fish. Whether it is a faulty heater that we didn't catch in time, or electricty going out, or [insert unforeseen but avoidable occurrence here], the only thing we can do is try and learn from our past mistakes and prepare the best we can so it doesn't happen again.
If anyone else has anything to add... feel free. These are just my opinions, and again, I am by no means an expert, just someone that has read and observed this beautiful fish A LOT and wants to share what knowledge/thoughts I've gathered over the years.
-Chad
gofor100
New member
Very nice!
Details? What are you feeding, what size/kind of tank are you keeping it in, tankmates, etc.?
-Chad
stuifbol
New member
It's in a FOWLR-tank.....+-300 gallons...I'll feed almost anything chopped clams/mysis/krill/artemia/white shrimps/flakes/pellets/angelfood...........
tankmates:
Chaetodontoplus Duboulayi
Chaetodontoplus Meredithi
Chaetodontoplus Septentrionalis
Apolemichthys Xantthopunctatus
Pygoplites Diacanthus
Pomacanthus xanthometopon juv
Holocanthus Tricolor juv
Chaetodon Mitratus
Chaetodon Collare
Chaetodon Fasciatus
Chaetodon Ephippium
Chaetodon Xantocephalus
Chaetodon Decussatus
Pseudoanthias Tuka X 2
Pseudoanthias Evansi X 3
Valenciennae Puellaris X 2
Anampses Twistii
Coris Gaimard
Planning:
Chaetodon Octofasciatus
Chaetodon Rainfordi
Chaetodon Flavirostris
Chaetodon Quadrimaculatus
Chaetodon Madagaskariensis
Anampses Neoguinacus
So some off the angels will have to go as they grow bigger:sad1:
tankmates:
Chaetodontoplus Duboulayi
Chaetodontoplus Meredithi
Chaetodontoplus Septentrionalis
Apolemichthys Xantthopunctatus
Pygoplites Diacanthus
Pomacanthus xanthometopon juv
Holocanthus Tricolor juv
Chaetodon Mitratus
Chaetodon Collare
Chaetodon Fasciatus
Chaetodon Ephippium
Chaetodon Xantocephalus
Chaetodon Decussatus
Pseudoanthias Tuka X 2
Pseudoanthias Evansi X 3
Valenciennae Puellaris X 2
Anampses Twistii
Coris Gaimard
Planning:
Chaetodon Octofasciatus
Chaetodon Rainfordi
Chaetodon Flavirostris
Chaetodon Quadrimaculatus
Chaetodon Madagaskariensis
Anampses Neoguinacus
So some off the angels will have to go as they grow bigger:sad1:
