The problems why, IMO people have trouble keeping fish alive
- Thread starter Paul B
- Start date
reefgeezer
Active member
I used to order 1/4 lb... about $30. That amount lasted me several weeks in the fridge if I changed the water (chilled RO/DI) every day... or so. Some did die and get decanted off during every water change but the loss was not too bad. I haven't ordered live for a while though. As long as my fish will eat other things, I just can't justify the expense of buying live. I only buy live for QT'ing picky eaters or fattening up skinny specimens.
mcginnisandrew
New member
I have a vermicompost bin with tons of red wiggler (Eisenia fetida) worms. I wonder if my clown (the only fish I have in my tank) will eat them. That would be awesome since these worms reproduce like crazy and are basically free at this point, requiring next to no maintenance.
Any idea how these would compare nutritionally to black worms, mysis, or clams/oysters?
Any idea how these would compare nutritionally to black worms, mysis, or clams/oysters?
dkeller_nc
New member
I couldn't comment about the nutritional profiles of red wigglers vs. mollusks/shrimp, but I can confirm that red wigglers are commonly fed to freshwater fish for the purposes of conditioning them to breed, particularly Discus. My guess is that the physiology of marine fish would be similar enough that feeding red wigglers to them would also be nutritionally beneficial.
My only caveat is just an opinion; just as in the freshwater side of the hobby, I'd think feeding any one food on a continuous basis, even very high quality live food, is not advisable. Many creatures used as live fish food have incomplete nutritional profiles; some tend to be very high in protein but low in necessary fats and oils, some are very high in the fats and oils and lead to problems if fed exclusively.
One example from the freshwater side is feeding Discus beefheart. It's a proven method of providing high-quality protein to the fish, and often prompts them into breeding condition. However, it's too lean to be nutritionally complete, and will cause health problems if fed exclusively.
The above is one reason to feed whole animals with gut contents included if possible. When I was raising freshwater killifish, for example, I fed the whiteworm cultures spirulina flake food. Even though killifish are exclusive carnivores (more specifically, insectivores), they still need plant matter in their diet to fully develop their spectacular colors; in the wild, they get this plant matter through the gut contents of the insects that they eat.
Paul B
Premium Member
Good post. I feed live blackworms every day along with clams which are filter feeders and I assume filled with all sorts of things. I also fed frozen mysis but the worms every day. Just this morning I watched my ruby red dragonettes spawning, that is because of their daily diet of live new born brine shrimp and pods. Live food is almost always preferable to dried foods. Some of my fish are 24 and still spawning
mcginnisandrew
New member
Interesting. Well i'll give it a try with the red wigglers. And of course would never become a replacement for a varied diet.
laga77
New member
I agree. Since I am at home most of the time I feed multiple small feedings during the day. This morning I started with a pinch of Spirulina flakes for the veggie crowd. Later was a couple of white worms I spot feed to my two mandarins three times a day. Early afternoon brought the clam/oyster mix for the general population. This gets switched up with black worms or mysis or frozen plankton along with some frozen cyclopeeze for the pipefish. Sometimes this is reef plankton which gets spot fed to the three spiral corals. Before lights out I generally use up what is left over for the fish. After lights out, the NPS gang, along with whatever LPS is open at the time get their worms, mysis , or plankton. Before going to bed, I spot feed the Chili and Carnation corals, coco worm, spirals, and Gorgonians NB BBS. It sounds like a lot but with all the spot feeding there is very little waste, and I pay close attention not to put in too much that can`t be consumed.
Martini5788
New member
Maybe that's why my fish are fat and happy. They get oysters, mysis, spirulina fed brine, and nori everyday along with a few pinches of flakes. I live a couple hundred feet from the salt marshes in coastal carolina so I have an endless supply of fresh, free oysters and clams if I can find them
KabayanReef
New member
He isn't kidding.
I "lost" a blue damsel for 3 months only to find it living in the sump. No food , no light , had a smug look on his face though.
:rollface:
Paul B
Premium Member
Laga77, some of my fish are 24 years old, some 16 and the rest I lost their birth certificate. My fish sit on their own couch and watch TV on their own blue ray flat screen HD TV. I think I take care of my fish very well and they "never" get sick except for the occasional headache. People that let their fish get sick and die before their natural lifespan, are not taking care of them well and fish that can spawn, but are not spawning are also not very healthy at all and could probably get Obamacare for free. I know you care about your fish and I would like to come and live with you so you could feed me all day long. :dance:
IMO there is no high quality dry food. Dry food was high quality when they made it and put all those good ingredients into it, then it was dried and when you dry something it loses much of the nutrition because many vitamins only exist wet such as fish oil. So, to keep it "fresh" they have to add all that other stuff you will see on the package that you can't pronounce. Those things are the vitamins and minerals artificially made because the natural ones were destroyed during the drying. The really long words are preservatives because there is no great food that you can store without refrigeration. So, IMO if you want to feed "quality" dry food, you are wasting your time and the time of your fish. Unless those fish are spawning on that food, it is not helping them as all healthy fish spawn all the time and only undernourished fish don't spawn and if they are not in spawning condition, they are also suseptable to ich and everything else and you will definately have to quarintine as I don't. Of course I am talking about fish that will spawn in a tank, not manta rays or tangs but even those fish should be in spawning condition. You can feed clowns and other damsels dry food because they will spawn by eating the Sunday News or junk mail.
The biggest problem in this hobby is not feeding enough of the "correct" food.
That is the reason I wrote a book, because I am tired of writing this, even now one eye is closing and my foot is completely asleep. The correct diet for most, but not all fish is fresh or preferably live food as they eat in the sea. There is no short cut and no other way. Clams, mussels, oysters, live worms (as my fish get some everyday) and some frozen mysis. Those are "all" whole foods with the guts included. Fish fillets, shrimp tails, squid tentacles or octopus, are not whole foods, just muscle. I did not mention dry foods of any kind, but I do use "quality" flakes to feed my worms. :lmao:
Many people will disagree with me. Those are people who have to quarantine or they keep clownfish. They should write their own book saying how senile I am, they can call it "Paul B doesn't know a live worm from a Platypus" or some other catchy title.
Then they could put Christie Brinkly on the cover with a picture of Shamu the whale or Brian Williams.
