The problems why, IMO people have trouble keeping fish alive

[laga77]

Unfortunately, it seems a lot of people don`t share our view on husbandry. Not so much here, but people I overhear at the LFS. They view their animals as replaceable commodities. "Oh well, my fish died, I`ll get another." This view was very common in the eighties when I started in this hobby mainly because of the limits of technology at the time. Also the methods used for collection back then. I had better than average success back then with my reef and a Damsel and a pair of breeding Tomato Clowns living 9 years when I had to get rid of them in `96. Back then, I thought getting the fish to eat flake food was the thing to do. I was wrong. Now I want to do anything possible for the well being of my critters that are in my care. I have discussed the subject of feeding with on other threads and some seem to be more concerned with their convenience instead of the welfare of their fish. Keeping a small supply of dry food for an emergency is fine, but feeding everyday is like giving your kids chicken nuggets with a vitamin pill instead of fresh chicken. I am retired and have a lot of time to spend on my tanks which I know most people do not. The hope is that if people are going to invest time and money into this hobby they will see that it only takes a little bit more to the benefit of the livestock. This is going to be increasingly important as the reef environment is sadly being destroyed. In the future, this hobby may only exist with captive breed and cultivated specimens, so we better learn how best to care for them.

 

[Paul B]

Do you think pushing shrimp guts out of the head with a rolling pin and feeding that to fish is a good idea?

That reminds me of a horror film. In the US it is hard to find shrimp with the head still on. If they are those tiny shrimp, they should be fine to feed the fish whole.

Laga, I use some dry food if I go on vacation for the days in between when my tank sitter comes over. But frozen food takes about as long as feeding flakes. And my fish never get sick so I don't have to waste time curing them. I don't even have a hospital or quarantine tank.

 

[laga77]

I have a quarantine tank that I use just so I can observe the fish before introduction into my main tanks. Even though I try to pick out healthy looking specimens from the LFS the probability of them carrying something g bad is great. Plus, I have ordered from online suppliers in the past and that is a crap shoot. The quarantine is rather short at 2-3 weeks and this gives me a chance to get the new arrivals on their new foods. Last December i did get a Flame Angel that looked great in the store but had ICH the next day. This allowed me the chance to use the TTM. A week after that and with him eating worms, into the DT. Everybody is fine. I have lost more fish in QT than DT in the last year. I do not QT corals, but i do dip them. I would rather have a extra layer of protection even if it is a small layer. I am off to a frag swap today and I have room for one or two peices of coral and then my tanks are full. The real test of my methods begins as I see how long I can sustain the tanks. I only hope I can come close to your success.

 

[Paul B]

First you have to live long enough. My tank and myself are getting close to our demise. I hope to have 25 or more years and if I take after my Mother, I will, as she died at almost 99. I would like to keep my tank up at least until it's 50th birthday and I may. But we are getting older and may move to a smaller home and also may get another home in the Florida Keys. If that happens,(and I doubt it) then I can't keep the tank. The tank is almost no trouble as I don't do much to it except when I travel. Then I have to bother people to take care of it.

 

[dkeller_nc]

Keeping a small supply of dry food for an emergency is fine, but feeding everyday is like giving your kids chicken nuggets with a vitamin pill instead of fresh chicken.

Those that are in the "live to eat" crowd (count me in) might appreciate this quip: Anthony Bourdain, a famously acerbic tv chef personality that's eaten everything from a warthog's anus in Africa to fermented shark in Iceland was once asked what was the most disgusting thing he's ever eaten. His reply was "a chicken mcnugget".

 

[dkeller_nc]

Do you think pushing shrimp guts out of the head with a rolling pin and feeding that to fish is a good idea?

Only if your wife or significant other doesn't catch you doing that with her rolling pin!:lolspin:

 

[laga77]

My longevity may be the weak link. I am only 59 but had to retire after 35 years of concrete work. I have had a hip, knee, and Achilles tendon replaced. I will need the other knee done soon. Two discs in my neck are worn out and gone, along with all 5 of my lumbar discs. In the last 20 years I haver lost 2 1/2 inches in height just from wear and tear on my discs. I have seen every kind of doctor and they only thing they can offer now is pain management. Sometimes the meds make it hard to think straight. Once, after the night feeding, I forgot to restart the pumps and skimmer and woke up to two dead fish and four others on their sides. They lived. Then there was the time I dropped the brand new $500 light fixture in the tank because I have lost the feeling in my left hand and it slipped right out. Now I have everything written down and go through a check list so I don`t screw things up. This goes for most things in everyday life. This is why I spend so much time and effort on my tanks. It is one thing I can still do. Sorry for the sob story, sometimes I have to vent. BTW, I picked up a nice yellow cup coral at the frag swap today. Now my tanks are full. My wife said if I get a third tank she is going to leave me. I think I will miss her.

 

[Paul B]

I am 66 and worked construction for 40 years. I had my tank before I met my wife who loves that I have a tank so I don't go out with Supermodels or hang out in a bar. Dam, I seem to be missing a lot. I, like you had all the joint surgeries and if you work construction for all those years and you don't need new joints, you didn't work hard enough. So we are allowed to relax now. This week I am building a shed in my yard and then I will build a jungle gym for my Grand Kids. But I consider that fun. Most of the money is also spent on pain meds and Dr's but i am still in pretty good shape and still SCUBA. Boating is also a big part of my life and the fish tank is and has always been there. My wife has MS so we can't do the things we used to do and we used to do a lot. We traveled a lot including climbing the pyramids in Mexico and wentall over Tahiti and the Hawaiian Islands including all the Caribbean. Life has been good and I will try to enjoy it as long as I can. I am trying real hard and like to have fun. My fish sometimes miss me, but they have to make their own fun. :beer:

 

[nsfishguy]

What do you suggest to feed tangs? I know they need lots of algae! What do you suggest for them?

 

[laga77]

I feed different kinds of algae. Everything from sheets of Nori, Spirulina, Chorella from Seachem and SeaVeggies. I try to stay away from feeding anything terrestrial like lettuce as fish were not designed to digest that.

 

[nsfishguy]

Thanks for the info.

 

[Paul B]

Yes, I would feed them nori along with worms

 

[CuzzA]

Or if you have a refugium you can offer your harvest to them. It doesn't get more fresh than live algae going straight to a tangs gut.

 

[flixxx]

Do you steam or boil the food before to kill any bacteria?

Also would freezing the food defeat the purpose of your article?

 

[Paul B]

Fish don't eat boiled or steamed food. They also don't like deep fried or microwaved. They prefer sushi as do I. Just throw raw sea food in there and watch them smile. Forget about bacteria. It forgot about you. Freezing is fine.

 

[Xxero]

Forget about bacteria. It forgot about you.

:lol2:

 

[Chad Vossen]

I feel you should give credit to pellets more than you do. The reason why I say this is due to my experience with Orange Spot filefish.

The only way to get orange spot filefish to spawn, is with a large amount of SPS to graze on, and I suspect they'll eat fish eggs (clown gobies?) if given the chance. or with pellets.

I have trained several filefish onto frozen fish food, and they seem to do ok, however they really gain their weight once they switch over to pellets. When fed pellets 4x per day, plus some frozen food as a treat, I have gotten the orange spots to spawn with regularity.

Also, when I raised banggai cardinals, I figured out how to skip live foods and go straight to pellets. The difference between raising banggai on pellets compared to live/frozen food is incredible. I had full grown banggai within 6 months that did not fight each other, while the banggai fed frozen from the same batch were less than half their size.

I'll admit that my selection of frozen food has not been that great. Now that I am feeding larry's reef frenzy, I expect to see better results with frozen. Though the foundation of my daily feeding will always be with pellets.

I use the top dressed otohime from Reed Mariculture for the banggai, orange spot filefish, and in rearing clownfish.



Here is a video of my 4-5 month old banggai, grown in a 20 gallon tank and fed 4x per day with pellets. These fish were never fed baby brine, or any life foods, and never any frozen food. The feeding response in this video is dulled, as they were fed shortly before the video.

 

[Paul B]

Chad, I am not impressed with the bangai's as they are like guppies and will spawn on eating paper clips, but I am impressed with your skill with orange spot filefish as they are a tough fish to keep, much less spawn. The next time I get an orange spot filefish, I will try it, thanks.

 

[Chad Vossen]

Banggai are weird. They are difficult to spawn for people trying to spawn them, yet breed like guppies for people who are not trying.

Getting them to breed is easy. Diet has a lot to do with getting them to hold to full term, as well as some other factors. I have not yet worked with spawning pairs of banggai who eat pellets, so I can only guess that it would make a difference. Sadly, I sold all those banggai in the video for $30 each at a frag swap, and while I loved the money, I would have rather kept them for breeding.

The reason I do not breed banggai right now is the difficulties in getting them to hold to full term in smaller tanks while being fed twice a day. If I was able to feed them 4-5x per day on reef frenzy, I would have better results. Raising the babies on pellets is the way to go though.

The only time I have gotten banggai to hold past 6 days is when feeding mussel soaked in fish oil. Reef frenzy has that, plus a lot more.

The main point I wanted to get at with the banggai was the staggering growth difference when feeding pellets vs frozen.

 

[Paul B]

My bangai's are spawning now as Bangai's always spawn. I don't know how to make them not spawn. I feed them clams and live worms every day with a little LRS frozen food that Larry gave me to try. They will eat pellets and sometimes they get pellets with fish oil on them. I feed some pellets in my tank mainly for the pistol shrimp and to feed all the amphipods I have all over the place. I don't raise bangai's or any fish any more. I did many years ago but now only have one tank and am just happy that all my paired fish are spawning. A spawning fish is a healthy fish.