The ultimate angelfish gift... and the Centropyge shepardi that aren't!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15710237#post15710237 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LobsterOfJustice
I'd be pretty upset if they sold it from the sneak peek list. Perhaps someone called and made an offer. If that's what this sneak peek list is going to be, I don't support that at all.

Hopefully they just couldn't get a good picture.

They dont accept "offers". There are a lot of reasons they might not have posted it, that dont have anything to do with sneaky dealings.

People were so in favor of the email alert and now the sneak peak, but you can expect this type of thing to happen a lot. It has only caused a feverish competition between fellow aquarists. Its great for DFS LA, though.
 
It says right on the sneak peak email that just b/c it's listed does not guarantee that it's going on Diver's Den that night.


DRS would gain nothing by selling the fish early. They know as well as everyone else this fish will sell with in seconds of listing, regardless of the price.
 
Just got off the phone with Kevin and it was as I suspected... With the myriad of daily photos that go up in the Diver's Den each day, Kevin gives final approval of what goes up... he is absolutely METICULOUS... this hybrid had a little blemish in its tail, so he decided to hold it back for a little while. What he does at the DD is unheard of in the industry... this is clearly a model for the industry... and on a personal note, Kevin is a great guy that absolutely knows his stuff!
 
I agree. I am a loyal customer - he has always done right by me. I was in the living materials (science education) industry for a dozen years, and I know full well the customer service and quality challenges handling and distributing living materials entails.
 
Okay, in the meantime Luiz is going to find out exactly what loriculus is supposed to mean and somebody is going to tell us if my pronunciation of Centropyge is correct or not. I think it's Cen-tro-PEE-gee (soft 'g').

:D

Alright, I finally got this one, sitting here in the Georgia Aquarium with Richard Pyle and looking at the original description we finally decided the best translation for it is "corset" or maybe breastplate. Therefore it is a noun (not an adjective) and should be left as "loriculus".

By the way, as mentioned before the correct spelling would be loricula, but it was originally described in the genus Holacanthus, which is masculine and the original author (Gunther) mistakenly changed it to loriculus. However, because it is a name (not an adjective), it cannot be changed back to the correct spelling and must be kept as loriculus.

Cheers!
 
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Nomenclature discussion aside, the hybrid flame/rusty continues to thrive. Over the past couple of months I've acquired both a small rusty angel and a small true Fillipino flame angel (not an easy task), and I plan to place these three fish in one of my displays as the only Centropyge soon. It will be interesting to see who spawns with who as they grow out... :)
 
sorry prefer to dig than to create a new thread

pix of both my rusty flame aka false shepardi

10qf9qg.jpg
 
sorry prefer to dig than to create a new thread

pix of both my rusty flame aka false shepardi

10qf9qg.jpg

Great pic! Can you get a better pic of the fish thats turned sideways? Its a beauty! But looks very different from the other hybrid? Are you sure it's the same kind of hybrid? It almost looks as if it has some coral beauty in it.

I also have a flame/ rusty hybrid that I've had for over 1 year. Interestingly enough I purchased him tiny, probably about 1"-1.5" and housed him/her in my 120 with a regular flame that was probably 1" bigger than the rusty/flame hybrid. They both got along great and never had any aggression issues.

Over a years time the hybrid has caught up in size to the flame and now appears to be the dominant one of the two. Every now and then he will give a quick chase to the flame but never ending in any serious fighting.

When I purchased the hybrid it was labeled phillipean flame angel from my LFS.
 
here is a pic of the "right" angel, taken 3 months ago
vmrxj8.jpg


will try to capture more pic this weekend
cheers
 
Here is my little hybrid when I first got him.
IMAG0030-1.jpg

and here he is today, a bit larger and more bold than ever!
038.jpg

041.jpg

Sorry about the crappy pics. Im definetly no photographer.
 
Five weeks ago I spoke at IMAC West in Long Beach California on board the Queen Mary. This was the first year IMAC had moved to the West Coast under new organizers... by far the most exciting vendor booth, and the gathering point of the conference, was at Quality Marine. Quality Marine is one of the largest, and best, livestock wholesalers based in Los Angeles. In their booth they had a four foot cube tank (roughly) stocked with corals and a wonderful variety of fish... I took in every specimen... and after a few minutes I noticed a fascinating little Centropyge darting in and out of the rocks...

I went to the biggest fish nerd of the Quality Marine crew (confirmed by me, and agreed upon by the QM crew!). His name is Bob Pascua... a knowledgeable fishhead and genuinely nice guy... I help a LFS out in my area, and have dealt with QM much in the past. This Centropyge by all outward appearances looked like Centropyge shepardi¡K but for many reasons I had suspicions...

Centropyge shepardi is found in the Marianas Islands and Southern Japan... The only place it¡¦s been exported out of is Guam, the largest and most populated island of the Marianas... These exports ceased about six years ago¡K give or take, when the major collector retired... I happen to travel regularly to Guam on business to the Navy Base there, and have spent months underwater on about six trips over as many years... I see Centropyge shepardi there regularly... but at depth... not really seeing any great amounts above 60 feet. I know the island well... including the fish nerds and the guys that collect... no one is exporting at the moment that I've confirmed... and this is further confirmed by the absence of shepardi in the industry in recent years... (those of you shaking your head¡K just wait a minute!).

So... going back to that little specimen in the QM tank... I had an idea of what this little fish was... but not from looking at it, more from knowing the market and knowing no one on Guam was exporting... I thought "Why would someone send one shepardi from Guam?" If someone was exporting again, surely there would be many...

So... what else could this little fish be? To fully explain that we need to go back a few years... The book many angelfish nuts now know well is "Angelfishes of the World", published in English by Julian Sprung. The book was originally written in Japanese by author Kiyoshi Endoh, an angelfish nut and friend who lives near Tokyo. In Kiyoshi¡'s original Japanese version these are the pages that show Centropyge shepardi...

Endoh_book1.jpg


The two photos of Centropyge shepardi are on the top right... the larger photo a typical specimen and the smaller one an orange specimen lacking bars... more on the variation in a little while... Well, look at the opposite page, showing our good friend the flame angel... The bottom photos show some hybrids and aberrants... and what is that fish in the bottom left photo? Surely... that fish must be shepardi... or perhaps a flame/shepard hybrid? No... that fish that looks amazingly similar to shepardi was a fish collected far outside the range of shepardi, and was a C. loriculus/ferrugata (flame/rusty) hybrid... collected in the Phillipines!

In the English version, Julian placed this photo in the Centropyge shepardi section, with a note about what the fish was...

Endoh_book2.jpg


So... with that information known... in addition to other specimens of this that I've seen go to Asia, I proposed the question right off the bat to Bob there at the QM booth... "Is that fish from the Phillipines?" He exclaimed, "Yes! What is it?" Bob knew it was something special... but not exactly what it was... it's not very obvious... I told him it was a flame/rusty hybrid... and not shepardi... :) It was also confirmed that rusty angels came out from this exporter in Cebu in droves (expected), in addition to a small number of flame angels (flames are a central Pacific fish, but there are breeding populations where these fish are being collected in the Phillipines). Usually when angelfish hybridize in the wild, one species is common and one is rare... as is the case with this hybrid, likely resulting when the small population of flame angels cannot find mates to spawn with at dusk...
I took many photographs of this hybrid Centropyge... what a fish! And even better, it was TINY... about an inch and a quarter... here she is! I've said this a lot lately... but look at this friggin' fish!

ferrugata_loricula_hybrid.jpg


ferrugata_loricula_hybrid3.jpg


ferrugata_loricula_hybrid4.jpg


More to come...

John, each of his threads is like a lesson of angelfish for all pomacanthidae fans. After years of this post, I would love to ask you, how do you differentiate a true C.shepardi from a hybrid of C.loricula X C.ferrugata?. It's then where I understand how you could ensure that I had a hybrid and not a juvenile C.shepardi
 
John, each of his threads is like a lesson of angelfish for all pomacanthidae fans. After years of this post, I would love to ask you, how do you differentiate a true C.shepardi from a hybrid of C.loricula X C.ferrugata?. It's then where I understand how you could ensure that I had a hybrid and not a juvenile C.shepardi

Apologies for the tardy reply on this... the easiest way of distinguishing these is knowing the source. As far as I know my buddy in Guam is still the only exporter from there, and regularly ships here in the US to Quality Marine where you can find his true C. shepardi and other fish from Guam. The truth is with the variation I've seen in C. shepardi in Guam, the 50/50ish hybrids out of the Philippines are indistinguishable from true shepardi in Guam.

Copps
 
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