The whole coral pricing has become a joke

[VWD]

The names make no sense, you see the same common corals under different names and prices all the time. And sites have all kinds of zoa's with different names and they look like some of the others under another name. It's marketing and as long as people are willing to pay they will keep chopping them up and selling.

 

[thelawnwrangler]

Great point, I actually agree with that too thegrun. But so many operate chop shops where they take a beautiful colony and cut it in to 1/2" pieces, glue them on a plug and call it aquaculture. I'm sure they are selling them but I wonder who is buying from them. Is it experienced hobbyists or newbies? It would be interesting to know.

I'm more than willing to pay premium price for a 3" frag that's well healed and encrusting the plug. That coral has a great chance at surviving and flourishing. There are vendors that operate this way. Those are the ones I buy from.

I am a newbie and luckily found this site, but sadly a lot of what you learn in this hobby is driven by the seller (LFS, Online Store, and etc). Reading what you look for in a frag is interesting, because as a newbie I am not very sophisticated in judging quality-does it look cool and does the 17 year old selling it think I can handle it? yea let me try it.

Luckily I have a lot of sources for information, but basically I am doing a mental regression of what I think is right based on all the opinions/data points I have gotten. There are so many variables in the hobby that there are many right answers.

I would say it might be a good sign that there is higher prices if it is related to higher demand and more people entering the hobby. it is a bad sign if the hobby is shrinking and it is reduced supply (which we don't think). Hopefully competition and a more informed consumer will let the better suppliers win out.

 

[nmotz]

I think it might be unfair to say that every dealer is "coral pimpin" now, but just like with anything the you buy, it's important to be a good shopper now. There are two LFS' that I shop at and they couldn't be more different. One is clean and has great variety and the other is dirty and smells bad all the time. But I still go to both for different reasons:

-The clean one has great deals on live food like brine shrimp and the emerald crabs that I feed to my mantis shrimp. But their coral prices are terrible. I saw a tiny stick of Monti digitata for $20, which is not a good deal for a relatively easy and not-exotic SPS

-By comparison, the dirty store has crappy tanks that are always dirty but they somehow have some large colonies of SPS that have good coloration. I got a nicely branched out 3" green birdsnest for $10 and a green zoa colony with about 20 heads for $10.

It only makes sense to buy online if you're buying in bulk in my opinion. Especially if you have a large tank. If I were setting up a 100G+ tank, I might go to Diver's Den and pay a few hundred bucks up front for some nice pieces and be done with it.

 

[Mwhreefer]

I have found out the best deal is to buy a "piece of the reef rock", I take the 10-12 corals off and make frags to grow out. I have come to the conclusion this is the best bang for the buck at $75-$100 I end up with different frags that I see sell for almost $25-$30 a frag. I take the live rock they are mounted on and throw it down in my refugium, or break it up to mount frags on.

 

[Mark426]

Not all places are terrible. I think the ORA prices from a few places are not too far out of line. Not too tiny and well encrusted. Now if we could get them to use a different plug. ☺

 

[SIR PATRICK]

Supply and demand.....A great way to justify a price hike. If you fall for it, sorry for you.

Sounds good, till you think about it.

Anyone who thinks there is a short supply of any coral out there for sale right now is sadly mistaken.

In your area, it may be hard to come by, but with a bit of effort you can find anything you want.

Trust me, I know. Ive been to the wholesalers, Ive known wild collectors, and Ive worked with retailers for many many years.

The only thing causing supply and demand are the wholesalers/wild collectors that allow certain vendors to "cherry pick" the best of the best aquacultured or wild collected corals before the rest have the chance. 4 or 5 retailers/vendors will literlly buy ALL of the best corals and huge quantities in efforts to limit what can be released and become available to hobbiests. Watched it with my own eyes with some of the very best of corals.

If only 5 places have a certain coral for sale, it seems really rare.....but trust me- they baught all of it available, sometimes in the thousands of polyps or hundreds of colonies, limiting what we as consumers see available, calling it "supply and demand" to justify...

Think about it- Its plain to see....these corals are going from $100's of dollars for tiny peices to less than $20 for the same peice in a year- and its not because the people who baught high and grew it real fast are selling low.....its because after the initial rush of "pimping" and the buisness slows, all these hoarded corals by the cherry pickers get sold to other vendors, who also call it rare at a lower price until "all of a sudden" its not so rare anymore, and eventually floods the market and can commonly be found everywhere.

There are suckers born every minute, and the middle men know it, and prey on that, and they are obviously, looking at the state in the current hobby, good at it.

Not saying all are doing this, or that its happening everywhere.....but its happening, and has been for many years. Dont be a sucker.

 

[Cancun]

LOL! I totally agree! My LFS had a Metallic green torch coral...being sold for 60.00 a head..I asked why...and they said it was a "grade something or other...crazy!! Love your rant by the way! LOL!

 

[burton14e7]

I'm getting back into the hobby so my lady and I went window shopping at the LFS. I was showing her the ZOA's that are 70 bucks for 3 heads and was telling her I used to get entire colony's for 30 when I got into the hobby at 13 years ago.

 

[tcat3rd]

The thing i miss the most with everyone thinking their corals are worth a fortune is how much less people are willing to help out new people. Been at this 29 years and even five years ago, a new person was loaded up with corals by local reefers. If someone came to my houst to buy a coral and i found out they had a new reef, they went home happy! Lol

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Yeah, I've paid those prices once or twice. It's easy to get caught up in the hype. I think a lot of it has to do with everybody wanting one of everything in their tank. So they would rather buy 50, 1/2" frags instead of 5 or 10 larger colonies. The names are just marketing, but they work, "darth maul zoa" sounds a lot more special than "purple and orange zoa".

I'm broke so my ric dominated nano I'm planning will likely be filled with shrooms that I try and scrounge from local reefers.

I hear you. I've never paid those prices and have lost a lot of friends because of it.

I agree that it's easy to get caught up, but a lot has to do with newbs being preyed upon. They don't realized that prior to 2005 you could buy an entire 50 polyp colony of zoanthids for the price of 2 polyps now of those same zoabthids. And it's all because Peter the Polyp Pimp gave them a silly name and said they were rare and he just discovered them

 

[MUCHO REEF]

want to know the worst part of this whole thing. The suppliers have not raised their prices, just the middle man. I get the middle man (person PC correct) has overhead, risk of pest, power outage, and many more causes for crashes. So i am not justifying it, but i noticed the average LFS knows there is a ceiling, and if corals do not sell they lower the price or stop carrying it.

Also ranting about this hobby is sometimes how things get changed. I for one, know that 20$ a head of zoas is outrageous. Things is some people here are lawyers or doctors and who are we to judge how they spends the money they earn.

Sales 101, you can only sell something at a price someone is willing to pay. Or was that Art of the Deal. Lol

" $20.00 a head " ? Someone paid $ 2,425 for two polyps". Lol

MUCHO

 

[ca1ore]

Supply and demand.....A great way to justify a price hike.

It has nothing to do with 'justification'; it's simply about willingness to pay. Whether that makes somebody a 'sucker' or not isn't for you to say, nor me. I certainly wouldn't pay any of these absurd prices, but if somebody is willing to, more power too them - this is a capitalist economy after all. And before we excoriate the vendors, I see plenty of hobbyists trying to sell stuff for ridiculous prices as well.

 

[nyknicks4412]

I am actually in disbelief that corals aren't priced higher....the logistics of bringing corals into the US, maintaining their health and delivering to the customer is an absolute nightmare from a business perspective. I'm all for money flowing into coral/fish sales because it will only improve the quality and variety of products available.

It is like anything in life...maybe you can only buy a Honda while others can buy a Ferrari. Someone is obviously buying the Ferraris though. And the money for the Ferraris in the coral trade only helps those of us that can only afford the Hondas.

 

[reefcentral123]

I am actually in disbelief that corals aren't priced higher....the logistics of bringing corals into the US, maintaining their health and delivering to the customer is an absolute nightmare from a business perspective. I'm all for money flowing into coral/fish sales because it will only improve the quality and variety of products available.

It is like anything in life...maybe you can only buy a Honda while others can buy a Ferrari. Someone is obviously buying the Ferraris though. And the money for the Ferraris in the coral trade only helps those of us that can only afford the Hondas.

nah there's no way they should be that expensive. i went to this store in long island and they had this one coral that was about the size of my fist at 300 dollars. what??????? :fish1::fun4::fish1:

My tank is filled with cheapo green mushrooms, leathers, and a nice little palm sized hammer because tuition is so expensive so I have no cash :headwally:

now with this dino outbreak i'm doing instead of buying one decent size coral at 100 $ i have to buy a UV sterilizer instead thanks obama

 

[kukulkan]

There is a LFS in my town that the owner wants to get rich wit in few months, I have same experience with a regular purple and green tips torch, one head and small, I asked him how much and surprise $85 I almost fainted , went to another store and I found a 3" double head same color torch for $25 healthy looking to , so guess where I purchased?

 

[nyknicks4412]

I would be willing to bet the majority of LFS barely scrape by...I'm just speculating but I imagine transporting a live coral half way around the world isn't cheap. Once it is here you need to deal with the prospect of keeping it alive. A LFS isn't cheap to open or cheap to run. The products you're dealing with are highly susceptible to disease/death. Add in the fact that dry goods can be had online for significantly less. Definitely not a business I would be looking to get into.

My point with all this is that a store like that isn't staying open selling $5 frags. I'd be willing to bet they are breaking even on the cheap stuff and making their profits on the expensive stuff. Without it there would be a lot more LFS doors closed.

So I guess be thankful someone has the coin to buy them...otherwise our hobby might be a lot different. If you can't afford it you can't afford it. There are plenty of corals that can be had for less.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

It has nothing to do with 'justification'; it's simply about willingness to pay. Whether that makes somebody a 'sucker' or not isn't for you to say, nor me. I certainly wouldn't pay any of these absurd prices, but if somebody is willing to, more power too them - this is a capitalist economy after all. And before we excoriate the vendors, I see plenty of hobbyists trying to sell stuff for ridiculous prices as well.

I agree 100%...I tend to be a bit harsh when it comes to our hobby becoming so comercialized and less scientific by ploys developed by this capitalist economy- so I share my point of veiw to those who have no clue....many of them hobbiests that fell for the hype, aka "suckers", who in turn follow the leader in this downward spiral we call these days "reefing"

Hence the existance of this very thread- Ive been a sucker myself, and it was not for another to say...but some did, and I was one.

No offense to anyone who has fallen for this predator ploy getting bigger and faster every day in this hobby.

 

[burton14e7]

A lot of LFS I know are not transporting coral half way across the world. They're fragging them from their big 450 gallon display tanks and then selling them for $200.

 

[d2mini]

nah there's no way they should be that expensive. i went to this store in long island and they had this one coral that was about the size of my fist at 300 dollars. what??????? :fish1::fun4::fish1:

My tank is filled with cheapo green mushrooms, leathers, and a nice little palm sized hammer because tuition is so expensive so I have no cash :headwally:

now with this dino outbreak i'm doing instead of buying one decent size coral at 100 $ i have to buy a UV sterilizer instead thanks obama

I agree some of the coral prices are ridiculous, most currently the bounce mushroom fad, but this millennial rant is just as ridiculous.
If you are in school, you are supposed to be poor. You should be count yourself lucky if you can afford to buy Ramen noodles, let alone have a tank. :rolleye1:

 

[Tweaked]

Nothing wrong with ORA prices and animals. Great way to make a nice colorful diverse reef. Still home of some of the best species. Hawkins, Red Planet, Pearlberry, Oregon Tort, Ice Tort, etc etc. check them out, and you can now order direct from them via Petco/Liveaquaria.