The whole coral pricing has become a joke

[sde1500]

Lol I do love the "back in my day" posts. I could go back through years of posts here and probably see the same theme following through. Rant about prices, blame certain groups or people, predict the death of the hobby. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I don't see any issue naming the corals. Sure they get crazy muddied and it would be nice to have more consistency but with the different color and looks why not give them an identifier? There are plenty of places that sell large colonies that I've found, some with absurd naming or ultra ultra über rare tags but whatever. If I feel the price is right, I'm paying for it. And that's the bottom line. If someone sees it, wants it, and can afford it good for them. To in one sentence say prices are crazy and killing the hobby, and in another say you never pay them because you have sources that you can use to get cheaper corals is ridiculous. That right there proves that things are fine. It's when no sources are cheap that there is an issue.

Don't blame the sellers, if no one was buying they wouldn't be selling. Want to fight it? Provide your sources. Name names, where do you find your reasonable priced coral? Or sell some coral yourself. Start a business, take the risk, buy all the equipment to raise them and sell colonies at a reasonable price. We all know it's cheap to build a set up for that right....

 

[tang named junkyard]

I am actually in disbelief that corals aren't priced higher....the logistics of bringing corals into the US, maintaining their health and delivering to the customer is an absolute nightmare from a business perspective. I'm all for money flowing into coral/fish sales because it will only improve the quality and variety of products available.

It is like anything in life...maybe you can only buy a Honda while others can buy a Ferrari. Someone is obviously buying the Ferraris though. And the money for the Ferraris in the coral trade only helps those of us that can only afford the Hondas.

The lobster you eat at red lobster is equally as hard. 35 bucks for the meal.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

The names make no sense, you see the same common corals under different names and prices all the time. And sites have all kinds of zoa's with different names and they look like some of the others under another name. It's marketing and as long as people are willing to pay they will keep chopping them up and selling.

I agree 100 %.....one of many reasons why I nor any of the 10 students I've mentored in reefing for two years now can tell you a single name of a polyp. Yet their tanks have matured with completely covered mother colonies.

On last Friday I stopped by a local reefer's home who ask for some help. Every single zoanthid and palythoa in his tank was dead or near death.......but he could recite the name of every frag, its street value and the person's name attached to it. I found out after I left that this is his second tank crash in 6 months. I gave him my advice and I hope it helps.

I did however offer to help him with new polyps which I and my group would give him. We are our own source, by growing and sharing with each other and those who want the help.

Mooch

 

[Sk8r]

Prices are driven by people determined to have what grows and reproduces very slowly. If there's not much of it because it grows slowly, prices will continue to be high for what there is.

There are however, a lot of corals in the ocean that reproduce quite rapidly, some softies, some stonies, that can make quite a beautiful tank fairly fast from a fairly small start. I parlayed a single 3-head hammer into a tank-filling monster in about 3 years. It can be cranky getting them started, but once euphyllias start reproducing in earnest, they can really double every few months. They're not quite the xenia or gsp of the stony persuasion, but they do thrive.

Yes, I know it's a hammer, not a hammerhead, but my friend who did the title didn't.

 

[TimeConsumer]

I actually really like the pictures I've seen of sk8rs tank. Especially how it is really dominated with just a few kinds of corals. And it goes to the point about the "one of everything" tanks. You see people all over that are obsessed with getting 3 heads of every zoa and a frag of every SPS. It seems more like collecting than growing. And if that's what makes them happy, great!

But if you have reefers buying $1000 to fill a 40 breeder with tons of tiny frags of all different varieties, you are generating high demand for tiny frags. Especially if many of those are new to the hobby, so they are constantly losing those tiny frags. If instead it was popular to get 2 or 3 cool corals and let them grow and propogate to fill in the space, there wouldn't be nearly as much demand for tiny frags and the prices would drop on them.

Does that mean I think it's better for the hobby to have everyone do that? No, not really, what do I know about what's best for everyone? But if demand is high, prices are high, and it's probably going to stay that way.

 

[mussel and hate]

The price gouging tends to be a problem for whatever corals are currently popular(featured in various articles including TOTM on certain web sites). Only fools purchase these specimens.

Easily propogated corals that have been available for decades sell for record low prices when indexed for inflation. Xenia was expensive 25 years ago as were the various leather corals. The only exception I've seen to this rule is the current price bump to coralamorpharians and zoanthids. These are common, easily cultured and shou8ld be cheap.

 

[ReefInterest]

My LFS has a tiny frag tank, but they are only $10 each, usually with 6-10 polyps. I can't resist. I try to average $1 per polyp if I can. ☺

 

[thelawnwrangler]

I actually really like the pictures I've seen of sk8rs tank. Especially how it is really dominated with just a few kinds of corals. And it goes to the point about the "one of everything" tanks. You see people all over that are obsessed with getting 3 heads of every zoa and a frag of every SPS. It seems more like collecting than growing. And if that's what makes them happy, great!

But if you have reefers buying $1000 to fill a 40 breeder with tons of tiny frags of all different varieties, you are generating high demand for tiny frags. Especially if many of those are new to the hobby, so they are constantly losing those tiny frags. If instead it was popular to get 2 or 3 cool corals and let them grow and propogate to fill in the space, there wouldn't be nearly as much demand for tiny frags and the prices would drop on them.

Does that mean I think it's better for the hobby to have everyone do that? No, not really, what do I know about what's best for everyone? But if demand is high, prices are high, and it's probably going to stay that way.

As a newbie I need to keep eye on the prize here- I bought 4 frags today. It comes down to patience I think. Let me see if I can keep this and it thrive we no real understanding of how end game will look and what will make a mature beautiful tank.

 

[Frontier]

I actually really like the pictures I've seen of sk8rs tank. Especially how it is really dominated with just a few kinds of corals. And it goes to the point about the "one of everything" tanks. You see people all over that are obsessed with getting 3 heads of every zoa and a frag of every SPS. It seems more like collecting than growing. And if that's what makes them happy, great!

But if you have reefers buying $1000 to fill a 40 breeder with tons of tiny frags of all different varieties, you are generating high demand for tiny frags. Especially if many of those are new to the hobby, so they are constantly losing those tiny frags. If instead it was popular to get 2 or 3 cool corals and let them grow and propogate to fill in the space, there wouldn't be nearly as much demand for tiny frags and the prices would drop on them.

Does that mean I think it's better for the hobby to have everyone do that? No, not really, what do I know about what's best for everyone? But if demand is high, prices are high, and it's probably going to stay that way.

I am just starting the kind of tank you are referring to. My wife and I are just getting back into the hobby and we wanted something small this time. I bought the very best equipment (in my opinion) that I could for the small tank though and this includes lights. I don't have a lot of room but I want a lot of different colors. The best way to accomplish my goals and maximize space is to hand pick small LPS and SPS frags and grow them out slowly.

My LFS has some decent frags for $10-$20 dollars and I can fill in some of the rest with the awesome ORA frags that are available. That said though, I will probably buy a couple of frags that are a little more expensive than they should be if they are interesting and fill in a color missing from my tank. I am absolutely approaching this new reefing adventure as a collection of what I consider awesome pieces rather than a grow out tank. I've done the other many times.

 

[Cheje]

I can attest to 5 years ago buying 200+ polyp colonies of zoas with a couple different varieties for $30 Canadian. Now for the same price on the west coast its 10-15 polyp frags.

With saying that however i must point out that all the corals i have i received as a bonus from a single reefer for buying live rock at $4 lb. He was a generous guy and after looking at his main sps tank i was impressed by a large green slimmer. I mentioned it had great color and without hesitation he broke off a 5 inch frag for free. I also received a 4x4 inch green and purple polyp monti that has more than doubled in size since.

My free corals
Gsp (electric green and metallic blue)
Blue metallic mushrooms
Red mushrooms
Red on red zoas
Green zoas
Red people eater zoas
Blue palys
Blue toadstool
Green w purple polyp monti
Red/ orange plating monti


I however lost my beauty green slimmer which was growing fast when it fell onto the sand bed while i was on a work trip. Shortly after a blue/teal encrusting monti which had been growing great RTN. So due to 1 reefers generosity i have a fully stocked tank.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I'm getting back into the hobby so my lady and I went window shopping at the LFS. I was showing her the ZOA's that are 70 bucks for 3 heads and was telling her I used to get entire colony's for 30 when I got into the hobby at 13 years ago.

It's the same reason many leave and never come back. Network with local reefers and clubs and pay a fraction of what others are selling them for. Good luck.

Mooch

 

[reefcentral123]

I agree some of the coral prices are ridiculous, most currently the bounce mushroom fad, but this millennial rant is just as ridiculous.
If you are in school, you are supposed to be poor. You should be count yourself lucky if you can afford to buy Ramen noodles, let alone have a tank. :rolleye1:

jokes on you gramps, i'll still be reefing while you'll be sleeping with the corals so don't be snappy about my generation :ape:

 

[Protoavis]

I agree to an extent (and being on the opposite of the world to most of you markets will vary) that a lot of corals are oddly priced. I mean I've gone window shopping for something as simple as Xenia and found prices from as little as $5 up to $48 for similar size pieces. I can understand fads and that the more colourful a coral the more expensive it will be but at the same time if it propagates well the price will drop. I mean, here in Australia with our strict import laws, there's a freshwater genus of plants called Bucephalandra that was smuggled in at some point and were selling for upwards of $300 a few years ago, now you can get them for $30 - $100 just due to propagation, same thing happens with shrimp (all shrimp are banned imports but they still get smuggled in every now and then)...if things propagate the people with it will start to price cut each other. Sure it's slower with coral but if they are popular and wanted enough, frags will spread and the price war will start. Failing that there's always alternatives that are far cheaper.

 

[TimeConsumer]

Still consider the original anecdote of this thread about colonies vs frags and the prices of those frags. It really seems to me that the whole is worth less than the sum of its parts. Retailers are likely to get much more interest on 10 frags for $50 each than $500 for the entire colony. So when the choice becomes drop the price of the colony to $200 or frag it up and sell fresh cuts for $500, they make the smart decision and get to fragging. Demand dictates the price.

 

[kukulkan]

All I have to say is good freaking karma to those reefers that when they can they give a free coral to those starting the hobby , I have gotten some good free corals , and I swear when the grow on to colonies I'll be giving free frags to!! pay it forward!

 

[Breadman03]

Still consider the original anecdote of this thread about colonies vs frags and the prices of those frags. It really seems to me that the whole is worth less than the sum of its parts. Retailers are likely to get much more interest on 10 frags for $50 each than $500 for the entire colony. So when the choice becomes drop the price of the colony to $200 or frag it up and sell fresh cuts for $500, they make the smart decision and get to fragging. Demand dictates the price.

In addition, it's not just raw demand, but the point where that demand lies. Who is buying colonies? Not many people, but there are many buying frags. Why would one sit on a colony that would turn over quickly as frags?

 

[d2mini]

jokes on you gramps, i'll still be reefing while you'll be sleeping with the corals so don't be snappy about my generation :ape:

LOL, typical. Looks like I nailed it. :thumbsup:

btw... average time in this hobby before bailing out is 18 months. tick tock.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

All I have to say is good freaking karma to those reefers that when they can they give a free coral to those starting the hobby , I have gotten some good free corals , and I swear when the grow on to colonies I'll be giving free frags to!! pay it forward!

I agree...that's awesome.

 

[TheRuss]

I re-set up my tank last year and a lit has changed in a few years. I NEVER thought about selling a frag. I gave everything away in the past, but people are greedy.

 

[HammerLover]

Its a bummer that all pesky corals like Xenia, Kenya tree coral and GSP is expensive here while most LPS like frogspawn, hammer, torches and bubble corals are pretty cheap.