The whole coral pricing has become a joke

Servillius said:
Australians are incapable of realizing they could undercut that person at 250%? How about 200%? Is it possible at 150% the cost of running a business makes this no longer a worthwhile enterprise?

If this is such a profitable venture why aren't these foolish wholesalers taking advantage of it themselves? Do they just lack for business acumen?
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Ahhh, but they do.

Our market is very different to yours in so far as we can't import invertebrates including corals. So our collectors set the price. It's still not too bad with most species, but unlike you we can't shop around for non endemic corals. Case in point:yumas.

About five years ago a really bright hot pink was 80-120 and roughly 5cm across. Thats retail. Now a few years ago some savvy retailers started to auction such 'rare' stock. Licensed coral collectors are very business savvy since export opened up and some immediately raised the wholesale prices. Some hobbyists have purchased yumas for 1k that wouldn't have even gotten 1/20 of that five or six years ago. :facepalm:

So now, instead of talking about some amazing colour morph they are talking about top shelf yumas (upmarket morphs FCS). Corals have gone from being amazing living creatures, to status symbols. At least years back when yumas were fragged, you'd wait three months for the Yuma to fully form it's shape with a new mouth. If it died then it truly wasn't the sellers fault. Now it's chop shop and flog to the nearest unsuspecting customer.


I have nothing against making a living, but I sure as hell can see we are heading down the American marketing highway. One collector even smugly said the problem with Aussies is we're behind the international trade. This was at the start of photographing corals under blue light to make them look vastly more colourful. Even now, if you want to **** off a lot of local sellers just ask for a picture under white light... :deadhorse1:

Now all we need is for coral collection to cease, and we'd end up paying the same prices as you guys or possibly more. 😜:hmm1:
 
suta4242 said:
Ummm...nope how about Datsun 120y being passed off as a Ferrari

Bit of a difference....
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Exactly how many people are you hoping will buy this Datsun for $200k?

This is what I never get about this whole discussion. Why some people insist on actually really believing everyone is stupider than them. In order for all this to work it requires that 80% of buyers be blithering idiots. Is it not even remotely possible that other people just have different priorities from you and appreciate what the average coral seller is making available on the market?
 
servillius said:
this is what i never get about this whole discussion. Why some people insist on actually really believing everyone is stupider than them. In order for all this to work it requires that 80% of buyers be blithering idiots. Is it not even remotely possible that other people just have different priorities from you and appreciate what the average coral seller is making available on the market?
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+1
 
suta4242 said:
Ummm...nope how about Datsun 120y being passed off as a Ferrari

Bit of a difference....
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I kinda think you have it backwards- you are the one who wants a Ferrari for the price of a Datsun (err.... Nissan). The only greedy person here is the person who wants something for nothing.

This hobby reminds me of the old saying 'if you have to ask how much it costs you can't afford it' (JP Morgan)

Freshwater fish are pretty inexpensive....
 
SeattleReefer said:
I kinda think you have it backwards- you are the one who wants a Ferrari for the price of a Datsun (err.... Nissan). The only greedy person here is the person who wants something for nothing.
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How is paying an acceptable markup wanting something for nothing?

Your average colony goes for, wholesale, between $50-$200 and can be fragged into 20-30 peices. Can also be fragged into 100-200 tiny slivers of said colony.

So- asking for a fair market markup of 3x-10x, compared to 100x to 300x is wanting something for nothing?

LFS, brick and mortar buisnesses use the 3x-10x markup normally, and have emplyees, overhead, ect.

100x to 300x is mostly out of home chop shops called buisnesses. I fail to see or understand your statement in any sort of fashion.
 
And, collected from the ocean, for the most part, the collectors are being paid the same for ferraris and datsuns.....just in case you were not aware...

Doesnt get any more basic than that.
 
Servillius said:
This is what I never get about this whole discussion. Why some people insist on actually really believing everyone is stupider than them. In order for all this to work it requires that 80% of buyers be blithering idiots. Is it not even remotely possible that other people just have different priorities from you and appreciate what the average coral seller is making available on the market?
Click to expand...

This is the internet age, the age of information. It is so easy to go out and look around and find out things for yourself.

This hobby needs some decent disposable income to get into. Lets face it, if you are a kid, or living paycheck to paycheck, you probably aren't starting up a reef tank. So the avg newbie is an adult, yet they are talked about here as if they are children unable to do the most basic research to decide if they want to pay a price for something.

And so much blame is being placed on the sellers. I'm too lazy to find it, but a comment in here is about an LFS that said if they sold a rock of just un-named purple mushrooms, they wouldn't get much. But if they named it, they'd sell for a bunch. Who's at fault here? Not the seller.

And can we get off the car analogies here, they really don't work.

People also saying that there are way more vibrant and varied colors in one breath, then say prices shouldn't be higher than they were 10+ years ago. Or that they should get nice big colonies of super bright colors at the same price as more brown polyps. But, why? I have a more desirable color pattern, more colorful and exciting, Im not selling it for the same price as my boring ones. That makes no sense.

And can we get off the car analogies? They don't really fit at all.
 
People throwing money at the latest greatest corals, just like someone paying 20k over sticker for a Hellcat, because they have to have it now. It is the same. I would rather wait until prices come down. You can fill an aquarium with $500 of awesome coral, or you can spend $10,000 to fill up the same tank with the newest coral on the market. I love the fact our hobby is coming with new coral every day. Oh by the way here is what I had to look at in 2000
 
alton said:
People throwing money at the latest greatest corals, just like someone paying 20k over sticker for a Hellcat, because they have to have it now. It is the same. I would rather wait until prices come down. You can fill an aquarium with $500 of awesome coral, or you can spend $10,000 to fill up the same tank with the newest coral on the market. I love the fact our hobby is coming with new coral every day. Oh by the way here is what I had to look at in 2000
Click to expand...

I think, if I understand you correctly, that I totally and unreservedly agree in principal. Those who value having it now or being first can pay for the privilege. If you're willing to wait, you can usually get in on the act later for less. People who want it faster and can afford it are happy. People willing to wait to have it for less are happy. People who want it now but can't afford it? By nature the privilege of being first is limited to a few people. You can be first at something else. Collectors are always playing this game.
 
Servillius said:
I think, if I understand you correctly, that I totally and unreservedly agree in principal. Those who value having it now or being first can pay for the privilege. If you're willing to wait, you can usually get in on the act later for less. People who want it faster and can afford it are happy. People willing to wait to have it for less are happy. People who want it now but can't afford it? By nature the privilege of being first is limited to a few people. You can be first at something else. Collectors are always playing this game.
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Your post is spot on, thank you.
 
I saw this on the auction site. It's a scrap of green star polyp.
d45d1a18cfeb8ad6a2385d3f34370859.jpg


Kinda funny that someone spent the time to glue this up. Oh, it's not very expensive, but there is the $50 shipping.
 
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