TheFWC at Macna

[scubasteve247]

Hey everyone just wanted to say you everyone involved put on a amazing macna. Had a great time.

One thing I was curious about was FWC. Yesterday while coral vendor hopping a FWC officer was coming up to the booths looking for licensing etc. I am unsure if he got a warning or a ticket. (I was told it was a ticket by a few people) He was from CA.

Now I know its the responsibility of the vendor first and foremost, but I was wondering if the club put out notice to vendors in any way letting them know that they needed those licenses
and if we invited FWC to the event.

Just curious because I thought some lessons were learned from the last time FWC showed up at macna Orlando. Just kinda felt bad for him, that could ruin a whole show experience for a vendor and make him not want to return to florida.

But again I had a great time at macna,

Three cheers to all that helped out and made this show possible.

 

[marlin85]

Thats sucks, its the vendors own fault tho. Anytime your anywhere selling or transporting live stock you are required to have your licenses and proof that your licensed to sell saltwater products.

FWC can show up whenever they want.

 

[Southsid_reefer]

Yes they were out there giving out warnings, I got one myself. Like marlin said its our fault for not having if on us. But no ticket was issued

 

[Lacy]

Yes they were out there giving out warnings, I got one myself. Like marlin said its our fault for not having if on us. But no ticket was issued

Glad to hear that it was just a warning.
Don't vendors always have to have a license to sell their livestock? One vendor made a comment to me saying it was MACNAS fault. I didn't say anything back since I don't really know 100% of those rules and I didn't want to **** him off. I was thinking that the vendors should know what they need or don't need. He made a comment about selling at other MACNAs and not needing anything. Is this just a Florida rule or a federal law? Maybe some states require it and others don't? Maybe our FWC is on the ball :thumbsup: and others aren't?

 

[marke]

Yes they were out there giving out warnings, I got one myself. Like marlin said its our fault for not having if on us. But no ticket was issued

Fully agree with Southside! I think the FWC did it correctly. They came on the last day late. They did not disrupt the event as may have happened in the past. And giving warnings and not fines makes vendors take action to get whats needed. I think we are talking about a form and $100 to get this license. Thanks FWC for being polite,informative,and low key at our event.

 

[ladybug5234]

From what I was personally told by a FWC officer, out of state vendors with no proof of ANY licensing were issued tickets. They are required to have a FL license in order to sell in FL. We (Reef Chicks) were employed by Eye Candy Corals to help them out at MACNA so we didn't have our licenses with us. It turns out that neither did Bill (the owner of Eye Candy), so Reef Chicks took the heat for him in order to avoid him getting a hefty fine. The officer was kind enough to allow me to call home & get our license number & just gave us a warning. He did mention, however, that we needed to get a mobile license if we were going to sell at these types of events, including frag swaps. Just an FYI.

 

[billsreef]

I was thinking that the vendors should know what they need or don't need. He made a comment about selling at other MACNAs and not needing anything. Is this just a Florida rule or a federal law? Maybe some states require it and others don't? Maybe our FWC is on the ball :thumbsup: and others aren't?

It's a Florida thing. Most states have no requirements for selling of ornamental marine fish and corals other than standard business licenses that are no different than what you need to run a hardware store. Hence the idea of having a salt water products license from FWC being a surprise to out of state vendors.

 

[tmulrney]

One more lesson that was learned by FWC stopping by, is that vendors are supposed to carry with them to these events Proof of purchase for the corals they are selling. The FWC officer told us (Reef Chicks) that in addition to our licensure, vendors must carry receipts proving corals were purchased ie, rather than plucked from the sea...especially the local live stock like ricordia.

 

[eg8r210]

From what I was personally told by a FWC officer, out of state vendors with no proof of ANY licensing were issued tickets. They are required to have a FL license in order to sell in FL. We (Reef Chicks) were employed by Eye Candy Corals to help them out at MACNA so we didn't have our licenses with us. It turns out that neither did Bill (the owner of Eye Candy), so Reef Chicks took the heat for him in order to avoid him getting a hefty fine. The officer was kind enough to allow me to call home & get our license number & just gave us a warning. He did mention, however, that we needed to get a mobile license if we were going to sell at these types of events, including frag swaps. Just an FYI.

Completely off topic, but when I saw you in the booth with Eye Candy I turned my to my brother and said, "Why did they change the name of their business."

 

[billsreef]

One more lesson that was learned by FWC stopping by, is that vendors are supposed to carry with them to these events Proof of purchase for the corals they are selling. The FWC officer told us (Reef Chicks) that in addition to our licensure, vendors must carry receipts proving corals were purchased ie, rather than plucked from the sea...especially the local live stock like ricordia.

That's crazy, though not a surprise. It's also impossible for aquacultured frags that are cultured in house and not purchased. But then we're talking about regulations written by people that think one should carry their fishing licencse on them when diving...readily available on board the boat or our vehicle if beach diving isn't good enough.

 

[quiksilverchin]

So how would one show or prove that the coral is aquacultured vs from the ocean?

 

[tmulrney]

Completely off topic, but when I saw you in the booth with Eye Candy I turned my to my brother and said, "Why did they change the name of their business." [

No, we have not changed the name of our business. Bill had a large booth and needed help. We had no booth so we were happy to help him out. The Reef Chicks name is firmly intact.

 

[tmulrney]

So how would one show or prove that the coral is aquacultured vs from the ocean?

What FWC is looking for is proof of purchase regardless of where the coral came from. FOr example: if we sell ricordia purchased from a local diver, we need to be able to show who we bought them from. Then FWC would look into that divers license.

In terms of corals, the FWC wants to see that purchased corals are coming from persons licensed to buy and sell coral.

As far as hobbyists selling corals that they grow to vendors to sell... I don't know.

 

[jdhuyvetter]

The idea is that you could theoretically chase the coral all the way back to the point of origin. there are two licenses in Florida. A saltwater products license (wholesalers and collectors) and an aquaculture certificate. You do not necessarily need both to sell. Guys like ORA probably have both.

If you have your aquaculture certificate, you are considered the point of origin. Out of state vendors only need the receipt from where the purchased a coral, or corals. Once provided, the FWC, theoretically, could contact the seller. That seller would then have the paper work from where they got it.....and so on.

The state wants to be able to trace the point of origin of a given coral back to an aquaculture facility or an import facility. For wild corals, they want to be able to follow the CITES paperwork, if needed.

To my knowledge, they have not gone to that extreme, but they have the option.

 

[jdhuyvetter]

As far as hobbyists selling corals that they grow to vendors to sell... I don't know.

Hobbyists are exempt from the FL Aquaculture certificate. After the Orlando MACNA, a lot of phone calls were made and invitations to visit hobbyists homes and a couple frag swaps were extended to both the DOACS and FWC. These invitations were accepted and FWC went on a "fact finding tour". Long story short.....rules were amended about a year later and hobbyists are now exempt.

 

[jdhuyvetter]

From FDACS FAQ's

2. Who needs the aquaculture certificate?
All persons engaging in commercial aquaculture are required to obtain the certificate. The certificate number is required to be on all aquaculture products from harvest to point of sale.

9.I have a few aquaria in my garage to raise tropical fish. Do I need the certification?
Yes, if you sell the fish you raise. No, if you are a hobbyist.

 

[jdhuyvetter]

From the latest and greatest Florida Statutes:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...0379.2523.html

379.2523 Aquaculture definitions; marine aquaculture products, producers, and facilities.—(1) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Marine aquaculture facility” means a facility built and operated for the purpose of producing marine aquaculture products. Marine aquaculture facilities contain culture systems such as, but not limited to, ponds, tanks, raceways, cages, and bags used for commercial production, propagation, growout, or product enhancement of marine products. Marine aquaculture facilities specifically do not include:
1. Facilities that maintain marine aquatic organisms exclusively for the purpose of shipping, distribution, marketing, or wholesale and retail sales;
2. Facilities that maintain marine aquatic organisms for noncommercial, education, exhibition, or scientific purposes;
3. Facilities in which the activity does not require an aquaculture certification pursuant to s. 597.004; or
4. Facilities used by marine aquarium hobbyists.(b) “Marine aquaculture producer” means a person holding an aquaculture certificate pursuant to s. 597.004 to produce marine aquaculture products.

 

[billsreef]

From FDACS FAQ's

9.I have a few aquaria in my garage to raise tropical fish. Do I need the certification?
Yes, if you sell the fish you raise. No, if you are a hobbyist.

I expect that bit about selling could raise issues for hobbyist that sell frags. A lot will depend on just how they want to define that for commercial vs. hobby purposes.

 

[tmulrney]

So, what about vendors purchasing corals from hobbyists?

 

[billsreef]

So, what about vendors purchasing corals from hobbyists?

That makes for a good question. Would the enforcers consider a handwritten receipt on a piece of paper from Joe Schmo adequate. Then would they want to consider Joe Schmo commercial because he sold the coral to the vendor...which now means Joe Schmo needs an aquaculture license.