thinking of trying Radiums, thoughts on reflector?

[pascal32]

I'm looking to move from T5s over my frag tank to a single 250W Radium MH. Why? because I feel MH makes corals look better, and I would like to try out radium's

Frag tank is for Zoa, LPS, mushrooms etc. I have another frag tank for SPS with higher light

For a ballast I'm thinking of going with the M80 magnetic HQI cube from reeflex: http://www.aquacave.com/250w-reeflex-cube-hqi-br-ballast-by-aqua-medic-2262.html

Looking for thoughts on the reflector. The hope is to have a single 250 over this tank. I realize the sides will be dim, which is fine for mushrooms and chalices.

goal is to maintain 50-70 par on the outside of the tank

50 gallon Rubbermaid about 4"2 with 10" water depth

max mounting height is 34" from water (that's for the top of the reflector)

I looked at the LumenBrit SE large with is 19" across and 12" deep - I like the reflector, however mounting it directly to the stud over the frag tank puts it at 22" above the water - worried this is like a spotlight and the sides will have no usable lights for corals.

http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=2254

Any thoughts on a reflector with more spread?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

iirc that reflector has a pretty good reputation for spread.

Here's a good resource:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/review

 

[pascal32]

some thoughts:

Sunlight Supply Lumen Max Elite Mogul Fixture

14.5"x14.5"x5.3
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/sunlight-supply-lumen-max-elite-mogul-fixture.html

Hamilton Technology Cozumel Sun

20x20x9.5
http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=3130

 

[oneradtek202]

i have the lumenarc III and youve seen it, its huge, i think that would be a nice one for ya. i picked mine up for like 40 bucks on the used forums on here


super stoked you are switching over to the radiums, i have a feeling ull fall in love with them like i did.


once u go radiums.....you never go back...

 

[pascal32]

i have the lumenarc III and youve seen it, its huge, i think that would be a nice one for ya. i picked mine up for like 40 bucks on the used forums on here


super stoked you are switching over to the radiums, i have a feeling ull fall in love with them like i did.


once u go radiums.....you never go back...

I just want to be more like you...and you want to be more like Mark...so who does Mark want to be more like?

 

[pascal32]

Thanks Nate for the link - reading that the LumenArc III is the best choice.

now to find something used

 

[oneradtek202]

HA....great question. ill let him chime in for that one .....


but for me wanting to be like mark...hmm im not sure if id want to be sitting at home right now breast feeding a baby while keepin an eye on another, that according to his profile pic.....looks like a handful.

 

[Capt_Cully]

And I want to be like Pascal.......weird....

The only thing I was nursing at 10pm last night was a Sierra Nevada.

I'm a bit corn-fused... I thought Radium bulbs were only good, or optimized by the PFO M80 ballast? The M80 you refer to is an HQI. I didn't think you could use an HQI to fire SE bulbs???

I'm sure I'm missing something, could you clarify.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

In the context of how our hobby uses it, "HQI" is a meaningless term. In theory we really only need to pay attention to the spec for the ballast, i.e. "M80."

That said I know Radiums have a reputation for working best on certain ballasts (probably because many ballasts don't accurately follow their spec) so I would probably do a little research before buying a ballast.

Pascal, if you can't find anything used, I know there are plans out there to DIY these reflectors from flat sheet stock...

 

[Capt_Cully]

Not to hijack, but why are HQI ballasts required to fire DE bulbs? Is this a commonly made misconception? Can HQI ballasts be used to fire SE bulbs? Is there another specification that determines a DE bulb ballast from those that fire SEs?

 

[pascal32]

Not to hijack, but why are HQI ballasts required to fire DE bulbs? Is this a commonly made misconception? Can HQI ballasts be used to fire SE bulbs? Is there another specification that determines a DE bulb ballast from those that fire SEs?

I'm still learning on this myself, actually I'm quite confused at this point of HQI.

I selected an M80 ballast because it is the closest recommended ballast for the radium 20K bulb at US voltages (radium appears to have been designed for European voltages). This ballast happens to be an HQI ballast by specification - what this means I do not fully understand - I found two definitions for this (see below). From reading I believe HQI has no bearing on form factor (SE VS DE)

I have also been unable to find any instructions on the cube, so I'm not sure what is in the cube - is the ignitor and capacitor in there [http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/lamps-now/m80wire.pdf]?

Radium Primer:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1802877

20K Radium Spec:

Radium Blue/20,000K
M80/HQI
PULSE
M80/HQI*

Ballast brands
another interesting note is the brand of the ballasts - I have no idea who is using what:

http://web1.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16925720&postcount=12

HQI

From reading I believe HQI has no bearing on form factor (SE VS DE)

one description:
HQI refers to "Hydrargyrum Quartz Iodide" which is the usage of Mercury in the lamp [reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrargyrum_quartz_iodide].

other description:
Another term typically encountered in the aquarium lighting industry is HQI. HQI is a trademark of OSRAM, and stands for a specific brand of lamps made by OSRAM. The aquarium industry has been quite loose with this term and has applied it to any European metal halide lamp and now, even more loosely, to any DE lamp. European MH lamps do not directly conform to the ANSI standard and have different operating current and voltage requirements. In most cases, a direct match may not exist with U.S. ballasts, so the aquarium industry has tried to find ballasts that work with those lamps, and have labeled these as HQI ballasts. For example, the M80 and M81 ballasts are called "œHQI ballasts" in the aquarium industry, for 150-watt and 250-watt lamp applications, respectively. [http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/sj/index.php]

not sure how this differs from a standard MH.

pulse/probe start
[reference: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/sj/index.php]

The radium 20K does not have a probe ignitor and requires a pulse start ballast

summary
in summary I spent two hours reading and don't understand more than when I started

 

[Johnny C]

After seeing RandyO's long-term success using 250w Radiums with Lumenbrites and Coralvue Electronic ballasts, I implemented these on my frag system and as a result had a combination of both excellent growth and coloration. I wouldn't really buy into the whole theory of Radiums needing to be run on HQI (M80) ballasts, they work great just fine with an electronic ballast too. Just my $0.02!

 

[sean obergfell]

I have the Lumenbrites over one system and Lumen Max 2 over the other system. Both excellent reflectors.....But I think I like the Lumenbrites better.

You can call me if you have any questions...
716-397-8016

 

[Capt_Cully]

Wow Pascal, thanks. I don't feel so bad for intermingling the terms DE and HQI, though tis now clear they are mutually exclusive.

FWIW I'm using lumenmax elite IIIs. I'm picking up my Aquailluminations Sols today

 

[Conesus_Kid]

Riding along on the hijack here...

I just started using two of the cube ballasts on the school aquarium. The plus for these is that you can repair them inexpensively. When electronic ballasts crap out, you throw them away and replace them.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

This is the real meaning:

one description:
HQI refers to "Hydrargyrum Quartz Iodide" which is the usage of Mercury in the lamp [reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrargyrum_quartz_iodide].

This is the mistake our hobby has made:

other description:
Another term typically encountered in the aquarium lighting industry is HQI. HQI is a trademark of OSRAM, and stands for a specific brand of lamps made by OSRAM. The aquarium industry has been quite loose with this term and has applied it to any European metal halide lamp and now, even more loosely, to any DE lamp. European MH lamps do not directly conform to the ANSI standard and have different operating current and voltage requirements. In most cases, a direct match may not exist with U.S. ballasts, so the aquarium industry has tried to find ballasts that work with those lamps, and have labeled these as HQI ballasts. For example, the M80 and M81 ballasts are called "œHQI ballasts" in the aquarium industry, for 150-watt and 250-watt lamp applications, respectively. [http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/sj/index.php]

Really, the differences between ballasts boil down to the obvious and very important (wattage), the not so obvious but still important (starting style - pulse or probe), and the subtle and confusing (weird differences between specific brands of ballast, etc.) 90% of the lamps we use are totally fine as long as you get the right ANSI spec ballast, which basically specifies wattage and starting style, the two most important factors. The occasional weird lamp we use really likes a certain ballast, and unfortunately in some cases that has caused entire classifications of lamps to essentially be misnamed or misused (i.e. "HQI" being applied to all DE lamps, which makes absolutely no sense).

 

[tmz]

RE ballasts.The radium or any bulb with out an ingnitor( many single ended types like hamiltons have the m) won't work well with a magnetic ballsat but will with any electronic ballast as I understand it.But i haven't run radiums yet.

Reflectors: I tried the older model of the reflector you are considering on 36 by 18 inch by 12 inch deep tank( 30 g breeder).Concentrates lots of light in a 2 x2 areas and makes pink sps pink and blue sps blue but was very weak on the ends. I had it about 9 inches off the water. I doubt it will cover 4 feet very well even at a 22 inch height which will deplete the intensity.
I now use two of the over a 4x2 foot 12 inch deep, deep blue tank . The one on the left houses a 175 20 k hamilton mogul bulb. The one on the right a 250 14 k hamilton.

I like radiums and phoenix too. Zaonthus like the brighter side but do fine on the 175 side.Palys ,discoma floridia and a few other things seem to like the 175 20k side better.

I now use a reflector similar to the brs lumenmax hammertone stlye on the 30 g breder with a 250 14 khamilton. It spreads a bit more to the edges , the light in the 2x2 area appears less intense than the but adequate for sps and certainly zoanthidae.

 

[jfl14609]

I have one of the larger and one of the minis I am not using if your interested

 

[pascal32]

I have one of the larger and one of the minis I am not using if your interested

That is most generous. I'll send you a PM

RE ballasts.The radium or any bulb with out an ingnitor( many single ended types like hamiltons have the m) won't work well with a magnetic ballsat but will with any electronic ballast as I understand it.But i haven't run radiums yet.

Reflectors: I tried the older model of the reflector you are considering on 36 by 18 inch by 12 inch deep tank( 30 g breeder).Concentrates lots of light in a 2 x2 areas and makes pink sps pink and blue sps blue but was very weak on the ends. I had it about 9 inches off the water. I doubt it will cover 4 feet very well even at a 22 inch height which will deplete the intensity.
I now use two of the over a 4x2 foot 12 inch deep, deep blue tank . The one on the left houses a 175 20 k hamilton mogul bulb. The one on the right a 250 14 k hamilton.

I like radiums and phoenix too. Zaonthus like the brighter side but do fine on the 175 side.Palys ,discoma floridia and a few other things seem to like the 175 20k side better.

I now use a reflector similar to the brs lumenmax hammertone stlye on the 30 g breder with a 250 14 khamilton. It spreads a bit more to the edges , the light in the 2x2 area appears less intense than the but adequate for sps and certainly zoanthidae.

Tom - your setup is ideal! I would prefer to have dual 175s - mounting is an issue and then there is the cost. ugh.

thanks for the input.