Deinonych
New member
Pretty much illustrates why it isn't feasible for a commercial enterprise to QT fish on a large scale. Even if I purchased from said LFS, I'd still QT the fish myself.
Today's Rant on Quarantining
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Pretty much illustrates why it isn't feasible for a commercial enterprise to QT fish on a large scale. Even if I purchased from said LFS, I'd still QT the fish myself.
My thoughts:
- The dog/cat analogy in the OP is a poor one because they are all captive bred, whereas the majority of fish (and inverts) are wild caught. Far easier to control disease conditions in a captive bred environment.
- Pests and disease are not the same thing. Regardless of QT protocol, algae is going to find its way into your tank, as are pest inverts.
- As folks have noted, commercial QT is impractical; and even if it wasn't, I would still QT all fish myself and not pay the premium
- A QT is trivial to setup, so I never have understood that objection. OK, some folks believe it is unnecessary, but that's a different argument and is their prerogative.
QT and preventative treatment are critical and inexpensive for a healthy reef tank They do take some effort in the short term and save it in the long run. Ranting about it as an industry conspiracy isn't helpful. This is a challenging hobby; keeping a healthy marine fish tank or a reef tank ;isn't like keeping a beta bowl. QT makes it easier.
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sde1500
Active member
Exactly right on the dog/cat analogy. In fact, I recently rescued a cat I found in my barn a few weeks ago. I kept it outside in the shelter of the garage, quarantined. It stayed there until he put on a little weight eating, and had a few trips to the vet to ensure a clean bill of health.
Brieninsac
Member
Today's Rant on Quarantining
After following this thread I have decided to setup a 10-gal. QT too. When I look at what I've spent in equipment it really seems irrational to not spend $100 more to start it off on the best foot possible.
I have a question about QTing a couple of clown fish while my new main tank is cycling. If I filled the QT with LFS water to quarantine the fish can I then just add them after my main tank is ready? I have a RO/DI coming from BRS too, but I assume I couldn't use the fresh RO/DI saltwater in the QT since it hasn't been cycled?
After following this thread I have decided to setup a 10-gal. QT too. When I look at what I've spent in equipment it really seems irrational to not spend $100 more to start it off on the best foot possible.
I have a question about QTing a couple of clown fish while my new main tank is cycling. If I filled the QT with LFS water to quarantine the fish can I then just add them after my main tank is ready? I have a RO/DI coming from BRS too, but I assume I couldn't use the fresh RO/DI saltwater in the QT since it hasn't been cycled?
Indymann99
New member
I think for many (especially newbies) a main objection is TIME... they purchase a fish and want it swimming in the DT that day... proper QT of ~6 weeks seems like forever to them.... As is said many times in this hobby... nothing good happens fast.
I have fish that have been with me for 10yrs. It would be irresponsible of me to put a non-QT'd fish in with them with the possibility of introducing a threat to them.
Would you put your kid in a bathtub with an Ebola patient???
This is a $50 QT setup.
I have fish that have been with me for 10yrs. It would be irresponsible of me to put a non-QT'd fish in with them with the possibility of introducing a threat to them.
Would you put your kid in a bathtub with an Ebola patient???
This is a $50 QT setup.
Most lfs's I know sell water that is new and unused; it's essentially the same as the water made at home from ro and salt mix. Using water from the tanks is likely to import disease.;it won't do anything for the nitrogen cycle( ammonia, nitrate , nitrate) since the bacteria involved in that process are benthic,colonize surface areas not the water column.
The water used in qt should be the same temperature and salinity as the water the fish come from ( bag water /lfs water).
This thread of mine on fish acclimation qt and prventative treatment may be of interest:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2185929&highlight=fish+acclimation+and+quarantine
MondoBongo
Obligate Feeder Obsessed
typically if using an uncycled QT your best options to manage the chemical nasties like ammonia and nitrate are:
1. careful monitoring and large, regular water changes. like LARGE water changes, as much as possible, and done every couple days, or as needed based on your testing.
2. using ammonia locking products like amquel coupled with LARGE, regular water changes. things like amquel will often skew your test results for ammonia, so testing can be unhelpful here.
something like Tank Transfer Method, aka TTM, relies on this sort of principle. you're setting up and taking down a small tank every 2 - 3 days, using new water. so ammonia doesn't have a chance to built up.
as tmz stated, don't use waste water from other sources except your own disease free display tank. it would defeat the purpose if you used old water from your LFS.
the bacteria that provide the nitrogen cycle are mainly benthic. meaning they dwell on surfaces, not in the water column. there may be small amounts of them floating around at any given time, but not in significant numbers to have any appreciable impact on the cycle. this is why we use "live rock" and not "live water" in our tanks.
shred5
Premium Member
I agree... Right now Petco has a dollar a gallon sale.
I do have a quarantine tank but honestly I only quarantine certain fish. Certain fish seem to stress to much in the smaller tank like tangs so I do not. Stress seems to make them get ich and they seem to do better in the display tank or it is just another move to stress them out again on top of it. But most other fish I like to treat for at least internal parasites because it seems allot of fish come in with them lately.
shred5
Premium Member
I have never had a issue with ich except tangs. Healthy fish with good diet should be able to fight it off and build a resistance to it. I do think it is getting to be more of a problem with tank raised fish that have never been subjected to ich though. They just have no resistance. I have had issues with Brook on clowns though. For me it has always been internal parasites but I dont worry about ich..
Its not the cost, but the principle that bugs me. WHY do I need to QT? If I pay for a coral / fish, I expect to receive a healthy specimen. I expect the LFS to QT their livestock and deliver a great product for my money.
All the arguments for QT can be summed up in two words "Old fashion". People are resistance to change. This is one of the slowest industry when it comes to innovation and process change. If we all demand more from our LFS, they will have to improve. Instead, we create excuses for them on why they can't QT. If there IS a LFS that can guarantee their QT process, people would pay for it.
All the arguments for QT can be summed up in two words "Old fashion". People are resistance to change. This is one of the slowest industry when it comes to innovation and process change. If we all demand more from our LFS, they will have to improve. Instead, we create excuses for them on why they can't QT. If there IS a LFS that can guarantee their QT process, people would pay for it.
MondoBongo
Obligate Feeder Obsessed
That simply just doesn't make any sense. Read back through the thread. The unfeasible nature of that situation is clearly laid out.
Bottom line, it just doesn't make business sense. Unless it works with a businesses profit margins, it's a no go. Fish stores aren't non-profits after all.
And again, as many, many, others have said. I don't trust anyone to do my QTing but me.
reefgeezer
Active member
The market has determined that not enough customers are willing to pay for properly QT'd specimens. Until such time as the market changes, we'll need to do our own. Don't blame the industry for a lack of innovation... blame its customers.
Just the opposite, actually (and it's 'old fashioned'
). I've been keeping marine fish for almost 30 years, and it's really only been in the last 10 years that the benefits and practice of QT have become widespread (well, relatively). Given your propensity for 'forward thinking', apparently, what would you suggest? Oh, and I think you have a fundamentally naïve view of the consumer if your think that 'people would pay for it'. It's not that the LFS 'cannot' do it, just that they don't do it because in their estimation, it's not cost effective (read: people wouldn't pay for it).
nuxx
.Registered Member
Also opens the store / site up to issues like the following...
Customer buys a fully quarantined Yellow Tang for $150. The tang is 100% clean and has been in QT for 8 weeks. Fat and eating, gone through all pre-cautionary treatments, etc...
Customer gets home and drops the tang into his established tank.
A few days later all his fish are covered in ich.
Customer then blames and blasts the store / site everywhere he can for the overpriced fish that was sick.
Turns out his tank was already infected, but it was a low stress environment, but adding the new tang raised and stress level and out comes the ich.
Customer buys a fully quarantined Yellow Tang for $150. The tang is 100% clean and has been in QT for 8 weeks. Fat and eating, gone through all pre-cautionary treatments, etc...
Customer gets home and drops the tang into his established tank.
A few days later all his fish are covered in ich.
Customer then blames and blasts the store / site everywhere he can for the overpriced fish that was sick.
Turns out his tank was already infected, but it was a low stress environment, but adding the new tang raised and stress level and out comes the ich.
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