Top down shots
- Thread starter Big E
- Start date
Any updates on if the colors have improved since the change?
Ed
So I am in the process of upgrading tanks. I bought that 40 breeder set up from Don and have been slowly buying equipment. Skimmer and another powerhead or two are the last things I need to get.
I have decided to change my direction with this tank and have a few questions since it will be similar to your set up. Any advice would be much appreciated. You were helping me when my current tank was running too clean and I started a thread over on that "other" forum. I lost all my sps from that tank except for 1 stylo and 1 rainbow monti. Everything else STNd....
1. I am going to run bare bottom (starboard). Do you have your rocks propped up off the tank bottom? I have my aquascape set up with marco prime cuts which are flat cut dry rocks and sit flat on the bottom. Should I prop them up on small stands?
2. What kind of flow do you have going in your tank? Wavemakers, powerheads? I have always been confused as where to aim powerheads and how much I need. Like you I hate chasing numbers like water turnover etc..
3. I have an 6 bulb ATI sunpower and I am new to T5s how high off the water do you run yours? (I realize this depends on coral placement but I just need an idea)
4. Anything in your sump? I would prefer to not have a DSB or Macros in my sump. Would like to have just a skimmer and passive carbon.
5. I will be carbon dosing this tank instead of using GFO. I had nothing but problems and it all started when I began using GFO. Do you dose any bacteria with your vinegar? Like MB7 as stated in the SunnyX guide?
6. Which corals do you use as "canaries"? What do you look for and what course of action do you take when certain signs show up?
7.More pics PLEASE! I love looking at the colors in your tank as it is an inspiration for me to succeed this time.
Sorry for all questions but I want to win this time and not lose everything again. The direction I chose last time did not work and like your methodology and natural approach.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
So I am in the process of upgrading tanks. I bought that 40 breeder set up from Don and have been slowly buying equipment. Skimmer and another powerhead or two are the last things I need to get.
I have decided to change my direction with this tank and have a few questions since it will be similar to your set up. Any advice would be much appreciated. You were helping me when my current tank was running too clean and I started a thread over on that "other" forum. I lost all my sps from that tank except for 1 stylo and 1 rainbow monti. Everything else STNd....
1. I am going to run bare bottom (starboard). Do you have your rocks propped up off the tank bottom? I have my aquascape set up with marco prime cuts which are flat cut dry rocks and sit flat on the bottom. Should I prop them up on small stands?
2. What kind of flow do you have going in your tank? Wavemakers, powerheads? I have always been confused as where to aim powerheads and how much I need. Like you I hate chasing numbers like water turnover etc..
3. I have an 6 bulb ATI sunpower and I am new to T5s how high off the water do you run yours? (I realize this depends on coral placement but I just need an idea)
4. Anything in your sump? I would prefer to not have a DSB or Macros in my sump. Would like to have just a skimmer and passive carbon.
5. I will be carbon dosing this tank instead of using GFO. I had nothing but problems and it all started when I began using GFO. Do you dose any bacteria with your vinegar? Like MB7 as stated in the SunnyX guide?
6. Which corals do you use as "canaries"? What do you look for and what course of action do you take when certain signs show up?
7.More pics PLEASE! I love looking at the colors in your tank as it is an inspiration for me to succeed this time.
Sorry for all questions but I want to win this time and not lose everything again. The direction I chose last time did not work and like your methodology and natural approach.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Big E
Premium Member
Thanks!
nmouncey---
Thanks..............pm me when you get a few more posts. You're email doesn't work.
Here's few updated pics---
This looks ready to take off & grow.
Rainbow stylo & Magician palys. I noticed that it seems the speckeled patterns on those palys are different on each polyp........kinda like no two snowflakes are alike.
I'm really liking this piece more & more.
Big E
Premium Member
JDK,
Here's the basic blue print I use for SPS---
Old school Berlin system-
Barebottom---- Use a Large skimmer"”2.5 to 3 times the size of your tank. This can't be understated, it's the main export tool used. One thing to consider is that even at best, a skimmer is only going to be able to export 30-40% max of that phosphate laden bacteria.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature
The skimmer will still take out other things too, but it's important to understand this if you carbon dose or not.
High flow"”Have heavy flow in the display. It doesn't have to be intermittent with expensive pumps. You just need to keep any detritus suspended so you can get it out of your tank.
Open rockwork in display---so the detritus doesn't get trapped anywhere. You can use branch rock to elevate corals & rocks, or at the least keep a small foot print at the base of the structure.
Try to think of the rockwork as covering only 1/3 of the tank floor. Leave 2/3 as open space.
Anywhere you have detritus settling or trapped it's going to create phosphate, so the main goal is to keep waste suspended. If it's set up right you can run phosphate levels at .03-.04 & nitrates at zero.
It's fine to have your phophates a bit higher, but I'd try to keep it between .04 --.12.
If you aren't getting those numbers you have to look at the way your system is set up"¦..detritus is settling somewhere or the skimmer isn't working at top performance. You also have to make sure you start out with clean nutrient free rock.
I like to avoid chasing the numbers & look at the corals & the algae that builds up on the front glass as indicators. The "œcanaries" are just corals you are familiar with & know when nutrients are too high or the colors don't look right. For example my Oregon tort's skin will get green or some pink corals will show a slight brown hue. If you look at your corals every day it's easy to see when things are off a bit.
Carbon"”I run it passive because I don't want to mess with a reactor & it works good enough for me that way. The output of my skimmer hits the mesh bag & I occasionally flip the bag around when I think of it. I change it out monthly"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.there's about 1 ½ cups total in the bag & I change out a cup & leave half cup in the bag.
10% water changes weekly--- use these to vacuum any detritus pockets you can see. It will also keep trace elements stable & also Mag. You won't have to dose Mag.
Dosing-- Just for Alk & Calc . Your can use kalk, two part, or a reactor. Don't dose or feed anything else, it's not needed.
Use this Berlin plan to start out & don't carbon dose right now. See where you're at after a few months time. You're better off without it. The only reason I'm doing it is to help a little because my skimmer is a bit undersized & the acetate may help with some colors & to create denser zoo populations. My anemone has never been a darker red since I have dosed & it may help with certain coral colors. I'm only dosing half of what most people do & I won't go any higher. I've actually lowered down some to 15ml a day.
From this thread---
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19366323#post19366323
Lipogenesis in the intact coral Pocillopora capitata and its isolated zooxanthellae: Evidence for a light-driven carbon cycle between symbiont and host
J. S. Patton, S. Abraham and A. A. Benson
http://www.springerlink.com/content/x1542137913mh3h1/
Abstract:
Surface tissue of the reef coral Pocillopora capitata contained approximately 34% lipid on a dry weight basis. Of this, 75% was storage lipid (wax ester and triglyceride) and 25% structural (phospholipid, galactolipid, etc.). Based on chlorophyll a: lipid ratios of intact coral and isolated zooxanthellae, it was determined that over 90% of the storage lipid resided in the host tissue. One half of the structural lipids was found in the host and the other in the symbiotic algae. Gentle fractionation of coral tissue indicated that zooxanthellae possessed less than 14% of the total coral protein. Coral tips and isolated zooxanthellae were incubated with sodium acetate-1-14C in light and dark to obtain lipogenic rates and proportions of fatty acids and lipid classes synthesized. The rate of lipid synthesis from acetate-1-14C by intact coral was stimulated three-fold in the light (1200 lux), which indicated that the majority of coral lipogenesis occurred in the zooxanthellae. Intact coral triglycerides contained ca. 68% of the 14C-activity and wax esters ca. 21%. Zooxanthellae isolated by the Water Pik technique synthesized negligible amounts of wax ester, which implied that wax ester synthesis was a property of the animal tissue. Isolated zooxanthellae and intact coral synthesized identical triglyceride fatty acids from acetate-1-14C. This study provides evidence for a carbon cycle between host and symbiont whereby the zooxanthellae take up host-derived carbon (probably in the form of acetate), synthesize fatty acids using their photosynthetically derived energy, and return the lipid to the host where it appears as wax ester and triglyceride.
*********************************
Lighting
Basically, once your water parameters are in range it's all about lighting for knock out colors. They have to be the correct full spectrum & at high intensity. Any compromise of either will not make your corals pop as much.
If you haven't bought your bulbs yet, I would strongly recommend a 50/50 combination of ATI blue+ & coral+ bulbs. These two bulbs cover the full spectrum needed for any coral color & have enough intensity at the same time.
This gives a crisp white/blue look. Some people will add more blue, but it masks or dulls reds, pinks, & oranges to your eye because it darkens the tank. Greens & blues will pop more, so it's a bit of a trade off. To me, too much blue looks artificial.
---------------------
With respect to Sand"”it's going to harbor detritus, so you have to vacum it if you want it for looks or for certain animals. The set up I use won't work with a DSB"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..just know that going in. You'll have to use "œcrutches" to help if you want to keep an untouched bed.
Crutches---- I label these as such because they aren't needed with a properly designed Berlin set up"¦"¦"¦.
Vodka/vinegar dosing
Commercial bacterial products
GFO
Refugiums/ algae scrubbers
Denitraters
UV
Ozone
Try to keep a journal of any changes, measurements, observations, ect. It helps a lot"¦"¦"¦"¦no way you can remember everything.
Make changes slowly & be patient, only change one variable at a time. Just keep in mind it takes acros at least a few weeks to show the change in any adjustment you have made. The larger the adjustment the more time it's going to take to see results.
Taking pictures every few weeks or once a month helps too. Learn to use a camera & take pictures correctly. Iphones won't work.
Hope this helps..................if you any more questions or concerns let me know.
Here's the basic blue print I use for SPS---
Old school Berlin system-
Barebottom---- Use a Large skimmer"”2.5 to 3 times the size of your tank. This can't be understated, it's the main export tool used. One thing to consider is that even at best, a skimmer is only going to be able to export 30-40% max of that phosphate laden bacteria.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature
The skimmer will still take out other things too, but it's important to understand this if you carbon dose or not.
High flow"”Have heavy flow in the display. It doesn't have to be intermittent with expensive pumps. You just need to keep any detritus suspended so you can get it out of your tank.
Open rockwork in display---so the detritus doesn't get trapped anywhere. You can use branch rock to elevate corals & rocks, or at the least keep a small foot print at the base of the structure.
Try to think of the rockwork as covering only 1/3 of the tank floor. Leave 2/3 as open space.
Anywhere you have detritus settling or trapped it's going to create phosphate, so the main goal is to keep waste suspended. If it's set up right you can run phosphate levels at .03-.04 & nitrates at zero.
It's fine to have your phophates a bit higher, but I'd try to keep it between .04 --.12.
If you aren't getting those numbers you have to look at the way your system is set up"¦..detritus is settling somewhere or the skimmer isn't working at top performance. You also have to make sure you start out with clean nutrient free rock.
I like to avoid chasing the numbers & look at the corals & the algae that builds up on the front glass as indicators. The "œcanaries" are just corals you are familiar with & know when nutrients are too high or the colors don't look right. For example my Oregon tort's skin will get green or some pink corals will show a slight brown hue. If you look at your corals every day it's easy to see when things are off a bit.
Carbon"”I run it passive because I don't want to mess with a reactor & it works good enough for me that way. The output of my skimmer hits the mesh bag & I occasionally flip the bag around when I think of it. I change it out monthly"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.there's about 1 ½ cups total in the bag & I change out a cup & leave half cup in the bag.
10% water changes weekly--- use these to vacuum any detritus pockets you can see. It will also keep trace elements stable & also Mag. You won't have to dose Mag.
Dosing-- Just for Alk & Calc . Your can use kalk, two part, or a reactor. Don't dose or feed anything else, it's not needed.
Use this Berlin plan to start out & don't carbon dose right now. See where you're at after a few months time. You're better off without it. The only reason I'm doing it is to help a little because my skimmer is a bit undersized & the acetate may help with some colors & to create denser zoo populations. My anemone has never been a darker red since I have dosed & it may help with certain coral colors. I'm only dosing half of what most people do & I won't go any higher. I've actually lowered down some to 15ml a day.
From this thread---
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19366323#post19366323
Lipogenesis in the intact coral Pocillopora capitata and its isolated zooxanthellae: Evidence for a light-driven carbon cycle between symbiont and host
J. S. Patton, S. Abraham and A. A. Benson
http://www.springerlink.com/content/x1542137913mh3h1/
Abstract:
Surface tissue of the reef coral Pocillopora capitata contained approximately 34% lipid on a dry weight basis. Of this, 75% was storage lipid (wax ester and triglyceride) and 25% structural (phospholipid, galactolipid, etc.). Based on chlorophyll a: lipid ratios of intact coral and isolated zooxanthellae, it was determined that over 90% of the storage lipid resided in the host tissue. One half of the structural lipids was found in the host and the other in the symbiotic algae. Gentle fractionation of coral tissue indicated that zooxanthellae possessed less than 14% of the total coral protein. Coral tips and isolated zooxanthellae were incubated with sodium acetate-1-14C in light and dark to obtain lipogenic rates and proportions of fatty acids and lipid classes synthesized. The rate of lipid synthesis from acetate-1-14C by intact coral was stimulated three-fold in the light (1200 lux), which indicated that the majority of coral lipogenesis occurred in the zooxanthellae. Intact coral triglycerides contained ca. 68% of the 14C-activity and wax esters ca. 21%. Zooxanthellae isolated by the Water Pik technique synthesized negligible amounts of wax ester, which implied that wax ester synthesis was a property of the animal tissue. Isolated zooxanthellae and intact coral synthesized identical triglyceride fatty acids from acetate-1-14C. This study provides evidence for a carbon cycle between host and symbiont whereby the zooxanthellae take up host-derived carbon (probably in the form of acetate), synthesize fatty acids using their photosynthetically derived energy, and return the lipid to the host where it appears as wax ester and triglyceride.
*********************************
Lighting
Basically, once your water parameters are in range it's all about lighting for knock out colors. They have to be the correct full spectrum & at high intensity. Any compromise of either will not make your corals pop as much.
If you haven't bought your bulbs yet, I would strongly recommend a 50/50 combination of ATI blue+ & coral+ bulbs. These two bulbs cover the full spectrum needed for any coral color & have enough intensity at the same time.
This gives a crisp white/blue look. Some people will add more blue, but it masks or dulls reds, pinks, & oranges to your eye because it darkens the tank. Greens & blues will pop more, so it's a bit of a trade off. To me, too much blue looks artificial.
---------------------
With respect to Sand"”it's going to harbor detritus, so you have to vacum it if you want it for looks or for certain animals. The set up I use won't work with a DSB"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦..just know that going in. You'll have to use "œcrutches" to help if you want to keep an untouched bed.
Crutches---- I label these as such because they aren't needed with a properly designed Berlin set up"¦"¦"¦.
Vodka/vinegar dosing
Commercial bacterial products
GFO
Refugiums/ algae scrubbers
Denitraters
UV
Ozone
Try to keep a journal of any changes, measurements, observations, ect. It helps a lot"¦"¦"¦"¦no way you can remember everything.
Make changes slowly & be patient, only change one variable at a time. Just keep in mind it takes acros at least a few weeks to show the change in any adjustment you have made. The larger the adjustment the more time it's going to take to see results.
Taking pictures every few weeks or once a month helps too. Learn to use a camera & take pictures correctly. Iphones won't work.
Hope this helps..................if you any more questions or concerns let me know.
sahin
Ultimate Reefer
Wow, the colours on those Acros is just amazing! Good work my friend. And to think, its all done in a simplistic way; with no fancy dosing of exotic potions.
Would love to see more; so when you have time please post up more SPS shots.
Oh and many many thanks for sharing your methodology. I think so much of this hobby has been over complicated by marketing.
Newbies to the hobby, and including those like myself who have been in the hobby for a while, sometimes need reminding about just how to do things in the traditional way. So many of the old timers dont post anymore or have left RC.
Thanks.
Would love to see more; so when you have time please post up more SPS shots.
Oh and many many thanks for sharing your methodology. I think so much of this hobby has been over complicated by marketing.
Newbies to the hobby, and including those like myself who have been in the hobby for a while, sometimes need reminding about just how to do things in the traditional way. So many of the old timers dont post anymore or have left RC.
Thanks.
SaltwaterAdict
New member
Exceptional looking tank Ed! Love the photos! Your sps are holding some 'intense' color! Great thread..
Big E
Premium Member
Thanks everyone..........
Arbee,
The camera I'm using is an older Cannon powershot G3. Most of the top down shots are shot in RAW at 5.0 1/80.
Tony,
Yes, I'm still dosing vinegar at 15ml a day, mainly for my anemone & to keep zoo growth up enough in the acros to avoid that pastel look more so than as a nutrient export tool.
Here's a few updated shots---
Ultimate blue stag, finally got this thing colored up nice.
[/IMG]
Lime in the sky with orange monti turgescens above
[/IMG]
Rasberry/blueberry prostrata
[/IMG]
Macro shot of Oregon Tort
[/IMG]
I'll add more a bit later...........
Arbee,
The camera I'm using is an older Cannon powershot G3. Most of the top down shots are shot in RAW at 5.0 1/80.
Tony,
Yes, I'm still dosing vinegar at 15ml a day, mainly for my anemone & to keep zoo growth up enough in the acros to avoid that pastel look more so than as a nutrient export tool.
Here's a few updated shots---
Ultimate blue stag, finally got this thing colored up nice.
Lime in the sky with orange monti turgescens above
Rasberry/blueberry prostrata
Macro shot of Oregon Tort
I'll add more a bit later...........
Lilmatty5dimes
New member
wow your pics are great. look all the acro looks awesome. thanks
Ed,
Beautiful stuff. Pictures speak for themselves. Do you have any experience with vodka dosing in comparison? I did a very methodical dosing and had some results but nothing stellar. Eventually I stopped and saw no real difference.
I have been running a media reactor filled with Fluvals Puremax and that has done a lot for my tanks. Curious about the vinegar dosing. Now that I have a high end doser, it would be easier for me to try it out. With the vinegar, I was doing the dosing by hand a few times a day and it was getting nutty : )
Thanks for the pictures. Very inspiring.
Nat
Beautiful stuff. Pictures speak for themselves. Do you have any experience with vodka dosing in comparison? I did a very methodical dosing and had some results but nothing stellar. Eventually I stopped and saw no real difference.
I have been running a media reactor filled with Fluvals Puremax and that has done a lot for my tanks. Curious about the vinegar dosing. Now that I have a high end doser, it would be easier for me to try it out. With the vinegar, I was doing the dosing by hand a few times a day and it was getting nutty : )
Thanks for the pictures. Very inspiring.
Nat
