Treating with Vitamin C

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Sorry, just one more thought on VC being a limiting factor in our "closed" captive systems....

Wonder if any public aquariums currently maintaining reef tanks on "open" systems (meaning their water is coming and going directly from and back into the ocean), if they have experienced any zoanthid 'meltdowns?'

I know that Atlantis in the Bahamas is on an "open" system. Isn't Waikiki on one too? Where's Charles D. when we need him to imput? Or for that matter, a wholesaler with an open system. Anyone know? :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12959216#post12959216 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JAMDivers
Sorry, just one more thought on VC being a limiting factor in our "closed" captive systems....

Wonder if any public aquariums currently maintaining reef tanks on "open" systems (meaning their water is coming and going directly from and back into the ocean), if they have experienced any zoanthid 'meltdowns?'

I know that Atlantis in the Bahamas is on an "open" system. Isn't Waikiki on one too? Where's Charles D. when we need him to imput? Or for that matter, a wholesaler with an open system. Anyone know? :)
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Maui does this. They also grow frags on large PVC.

I asked, and the explanation I got was the water is piped in, filtered through many feet of sand in tubing. Of course, organisms find their way through anyway, and crabs and corals have "appeared" over time. :bum:

Not sure about their zooanthid meltdowns, if any.
 
LOL, we bought it all! I just had a flux of folks at my puffer forum ordering it too.

You could try calcium ascorbate or magnesium ascorbate too & use the same coupon code at I-Herb.
 
I think after seeing pics of my tanks, I've converted several of them to coral keeping. We have a marine tank forum there too.
 
Ok, so I just ordered the buffered VC from iherb.com (thanks for the extra $5 off Puffer!). Now Im just trying to figure out how to dose accordingly. I currently have about 40g of total volume in my tank. I have some zoas that I ordered that are not really opening up too well and I also want to increase the growth rate and color of my other zoas and palys. How much should I be dosing and how often? Im just worried about overdosing or not dosing enough for my needs.
Thanks!
 
One of my tanks has around 40 gallons in it. I dose around 1/4 tsp twice daily which I believe is around 5-6 ppm. If you go with that amount start at a lower dose and go up slowly over the course of a few days to that dose. Its a low dose that I use for prevenitive reasons. You can dose much more but do it slowly.
 
Thanks jeff! If you don't mind me asking, what are your preventative reeasons for not going any higher than your current dose? Your answer may keep me from doing the same too.
 
Well, theres been a lot of people including myself that dont have a specific need to dose other then the way the vitamin affects growth and spreading. My corals have not had any problems really but benefit from vitamin c by spreading and staying healthier then without. I dont think increasing the dose will do much.
 
In my case, when I back off on my dosing, they start to decline. Also, I am usually buying new zoa freags that need the extra help.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12957312#post12957312 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, it was a grad student that made a passing comment about that to someone in this thread. Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

Also, it's pretty tough to draw a comparison between what vitamin C does to humans to what it does to zoanthids... The immune systems are nothing alike. In fact, NOTHING is alike.
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haha, well I'm back after a three weeks of field work with no internet. Even though I am a grad student, I am still a scientist. What I'm in training to be is a PhD in Ecology. But this alone shouldn't give people the impression that I know what I'm talking about, but what they should consider is the information that I have posted and what I have theorized as to what is happening with VC dosing. Please, do not interpret this as the "truth", "fact", or "last call", but merely a scientist using the scientific approach to answer a question.

Also, why is it tough to draw the comparison of what VC does in humans and what it does in zoanthids? Many of the papers and information posted on the thread have describe how VC works at the cellular level, these pathways, uses, and functions within a cell share commonality whether it is a cell in a human, plant or coral. VC helps the human immune system by supporting immune cells (and other cells) that are stressed, damaged by acting as a antioxidant and as a enzymatic cofactor in critical cell function.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12959396#post12959396 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JAMDivers
And here's the link to the paper again if it doesn't open for you:
http://www.pnas.org/content/105/1/54.full
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I think I posted this paper a few pages back too, I looks like a missed more than a couple pages on this thread, I will shift through them in the morning, hopefully with responses to further dialog on this topic.

Cheers,

Josh
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12873703#post12873703 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
It may have been determined that ascorbates can play a role in collagen production in some organisms. However, to say that it plays a role in coral tissue production is nothing more than a wild guess, even if they are collagen based.
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**Sorry this is on old topic, I’ve been 300miles away from internet the last three weeks**

Peter,

Have you had a chance to read the PNAS paper I posted a few pages back (from when you made this comment) and that JAMdivers just reposted? They specifically test ascorbate in coral tissue (both common in our home reefs) production related to collagen and in both cases it shows an increase in collagen production. Although it was not a significant (95% confidence of difference over control group) there was still a noticeable increase in the soft coral and a significant increase in the stony coral’s collagen production. Overall 10% (not enough to be *significant*) increase in collagen production for the soft coral and close to 20% in the stony.

When you continue to make comments like this it is incredibly frustrating, I have presented both papers that show how ascorbate reduces the ill affects of oxidant toxins produced in corals during photosynthesis and also how it attributes to collagen production. To ignore this legitimate information and to cling to the theory that VC is acting as a carbon source (so far based solely on anecdotal observation), even though chemically and metabolically it is extremely unlikely is even more frustrating.

I do appreciate you skepticism and your experience/feedback on this matter and will begin another literature review to try to determine if any organisms have been shown to use ascorbate as a carbon source (focusing on algae and bacteria). It would also be helpful if you could help strengthen your theory and hopefully we can continue to move this discussion forward.

Again, like I have said many times before, these are theories that I have formed on a literature review and have not been proven in experimentation. Therefore it should not be embraced as the be-all explanation to why VC dosing has shown positive affects in our tanks, but merely a possible explanation that is backed by current and reviewed science.

Cheers,

Josh
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12957617#post12957617 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jeff
I think that you are right. it was someone that threw out that possibility. It wasnt proven or even tested, simply suggested.
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please read the PNAS paper posted.

Cheers,

Josh
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12985315#post12985315 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by montanabay
please read the PNAS paper posted.

Cheers,

Josh
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Lol! I didnt get too far into it to realize it was many levels above my needs and understanding. I then skimmed it to try and see if there was anything that pertained to sodium ascorbate or this thread and didnt find anything.
Sorry, but the linking, cutting, pasting, and unproven theories dont help.
I personally check this thread to comment on first hand experiences and help others based on observances of vitamin c and its effects in my tanks.
 
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