True or False, did this REALLY and TRULY happen ?????

[MUCHO REEF]

I'm sitting in a hotel room with no medicine cabinet otherwise I would start lookin in mine. I am curious if the unknown factor may be some sort of pill or supplement or something else that contains either algae or another marine ingredient. I know there were some diet supplements that used chitosan (sp?) which is something from shellfish. Vitamin C has been used before and has been shown to be beneficial so maybe its another vitamin form. Just throwing out some ideas in case it turns on a light bulb for someone.

I don't think this is completely impossible as I doubt Mucho would string us along for something 100% a waste of time... don't know the guy personally but he just doesnt seem like the Joker and its not April Fools.

Why would you say I'm stringing anyone along? I never once said it was true or untrue. I'm simple stating a sequence of events and would like to hear everyone's opinion. If it's no true than it's not true. If it's real, then it is. The question was answered truthfully on page one by someone already.

Think, what on earth could cause that kind of growth that some scientist or biologist somewhere hasn't already theorize and tested. How on earth could what started as a frag, reproduce 8.3 polyps per day? That's is utterly bizarre. This thread was not created and some hoax, it was presented to do exactly what it did, spark discussion and conversation.

If it is true, than great.

I totally and 100 % regret ever posting it now. You try to do something different to add some diversity away from the norm here and you get attacked, accused, labeled.

IT's A HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE, .......CLUE

 

[MUCHO REEF]

i have no background in bio as you will be able to tell in a min

but how does a HUMAN growth hormone take effect on zoas

i just don't see this

also if this is true it must totally strip the water of nutrients needed for growth

there must be a limiting factor somewhere so i would question the health of the new growth

this to me is screaming BS

if this was discovered i feel it would not be small news - it would be on science blogs ect well before its found on a small reefing forum...

but the OP is speaking like its true and hes teasing us

i just don't know what to think but its screaming BS to me

BS, wow, LOL, why did I do this.

Lets just talk about names, ID, look at my pictures and pricing. It's safe.

Everything I have ever said or done in this forum was to give back or help out. I posted a simple out of this world story and gave hints right up front if this was true or even remotely possible. I wanted it to achieve exactly what it did, well, 95% of it I should say. It's a hoax if I told everyone it did happen and it was true, then when you asked me for proof and I said, "GOTCHA", that's a hoax. I never said it was or wasn't true. I wanted to discuss and debate the possibility and I truly thank those who replied.

 

[kawicivic]

if this was discovered i feel it would not be small news - it would be on science blogs ect well before its found on a small reefing forum...

RC is far from a small reefing forum... RC is one of the largest forums on the internet (#88 according to big-boards.com) and there are quite a few of extremely well known aquarists and experts that post here

 

[kawicivic]

Why would you say I'm stringing anyone along? I never once said it was true or untrue. I'm simple stating a sequence of events and would like to hear everyone's opinion. If it's no true than it's not true. If it's real, then it is. The question was answered truthfully on page one by someone already.

Think, what on earth could cause that kind of growth that some scientist or biologist somewhere hasn't already theorize and tested. How on earth could what started as a frag, reproduce 8.3 polyps per day? That's is utterly bizarre. This thread was not created and some hoax, it was presented to do exactly what it did, spark discussion and conversation.

If it is true, than great.

I totally and 100 % regret ever posting it now. You try to do something different to add some diversity away from the norm here and you get attacked, accused, labeled.

IT's A HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE, .......CLUE

Maybe stringing along was a bad set of words but I meant that if it was a failed experiment and nothing came out of it i didn't think you would post a teaser thread about it. shame on me for reading into it too much. You got discussion but now it seems you are pestered by pessimists and bothered by believers...

why regret the thread if it triggered what you wanted?

 

[luvdiving]

I actually didn't even mean anything by it when I originally said "crazy talk"..I just wanted to see a pic of This spliced polyp that you yourself brought up.apparently you took great offense to that....so I don't think I owe you or anyone else here an apology. You took it out of context.please take a chill pill ...

Are you truly serious???? Someone speaking intellectually on a topic is considered crazy talk in your opinion? How many people here have you just insulted? WOW !!!

People look and lurk here every single day, some post and reply and some don't. I have spoken to many of them privately in the last 3 weeks. There are a lot of topics here that I don't post on and I do indeed know and have the answer. Now becuase I don't reply and say something, by your own admission, does that mean I DON"T UNDERSTAND ?

"You guys" ? , so you indeed insulted a lot of people who replied as well as those who did.

I think you owe a lot of people here an apology.

If you don't agree and feel it is impossible for the said growth to happen, then say so, but why come here to try and destroy a discussion because it is above your head. It's not silly or crazy, but I will respect your right to feel that way since it is merely an opinion.

Your post is one of the reasons some people don't reply or post, they don't want their thread to be referred to as , "crazy talk".

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I actually didn't even mean anything by it when I originally said "crazy talk"..I just wanted to see a pic of This spliced polyp that you yourself brought up.apparently you took great offense to that....so I don't think I owe you or anyone else here an apology. You come off to me as a very angry reefer.I'm not sure why but you Just do.maybe because of all the recent talk about how much this hobby has changed in a way that you font agree with but that's jmho. ....

You're looking for a fight, and I'm not gonna give you one. Not sure what you're talking about in me taken offense to something other than the crazy talk comment. I'm not angry, LOL you don't know me. Out of respect for the site I love, we can squash this as it really is nothing.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

RC is far from a small reefing forum... RC is one of the largest forums on the internet (#88 according to big-boards.com) and there are quite a few of extremely well known aquarists and experts that post here

I didn't know it was # 88. That's good to know. Thanks

 

[luvdiving]

OK its over, please continue with your discussion. ...

 

[khaosinc]

Great question. Now I ask you, could 24/7 infrared stimulation be the missing link which was the hidden factor which lead to this discover?

Also.


If you go back to the 4th line of 2nd paragraph, I never said it was injected into the side of the polyp. Zoanthids have a Siphonoglyh, which is their mouth. Their mouth a gastrovascular pouch. HMMMM, a stomach? Injection denotes use of a means to administer a substance, chemical, hormone etc. What if the injection was DIRECTLY into the oral slit, ( their mouth ) and not into the Cuticle, ( their skin ) ?

Look at post # 34 , B)

Zoanthids are photosynthetic, extracting most the nutritional requirement needed to sustain them from your lights/the sun. This is their primary source for nutritional uptake. External, or what I call, secondary feeding isn't necessary, but it has shown to marginally improve/speed growth. I just read a book by a well known author who says, "light alone is not enough to sustain their metabolism. Starvation results in rapid reduction in polyp size". If this is true, more many many years I didn't feed, so how did my polyps sustain their metabolism?

Going back to post # 34, what if, what if this substance, ( HGH ) or what was created from the HGH, had absolutely no negative impact on the zooxanthellae, ( the single cell marine algae that lives symbiotically within each polyp ). What if the exact opposite transpired which resulted in this type of growth?

Then no is your final answer?

Mucho Reef

Yup, I'm going with no. Although the amusing concept of viagra keeps floating in my head for some reason.

My main problem with the senario given that I am fairly familiar with large systems and have 2 300 gallon tanks is that growth simply requires energy and materials (nutients) to have the building blocks to create a copy of oneself. I'm not a biologist, but I've smelled a fair bit of stinky skim in the last few years. The shear volumn of nutients required to create such exponential growth is unsustainable in almost any closed enviroment in my completely uneducated opinion.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

THE ANSWER

Several people have ask me to share it now. This hasn't gone the totally the way I hoped that it would, yet in some ways it did

I want to personally thank ...

90greefman
TeebD
aquaph8
650-IS350
92awdGSX
Friday Night
75glreef
S.A. Trey
Wycombes
Kichimark
dread240luvdiving
dred240
St. Patrick
Khaosinc
MainRain
frag factory
my9iron
CrazyZoa
evb9
Nah29freak
Stusdesktop
danbmx
Jimcat

..and everyone who stopped by just to look and read. If you just looked in and didn’t post, that’s ok, but I hoped you would. You guys/gals really engaged the topic and followed up with theories, debates and discussions. Someone said the increase in traffic was by those who were here cause they wanted to know just how fast they could grow their polyps for resale. Not sure if it’s totally true, but some might have been

Dread240, Stusdesktop, Wycombes and Kichimark, you guys were awesome, you did exactly what I was hoping and expecting to see. You guys engaged the subject with scientific reasoning and deductions. If you guys aren't here posting everyday, then you should be. If not here, somewhere. That kind of knowledge is needed and you should be here sharing it.

650-IS350, you see, there is a lot of talent here, and if you leave, one will be missing.

To those who said it was true, wouldn't we all want it to be true. NO, not me, I'd want to grow them the old fashion way. Testing my ability as a reefer to do it without some magic potion. That wouldn't be reefing to me.

To those who said impossible, you saw something that maybe others didn't see as I gave many clues to the answer.

The reason I did this was because there is someone here, right here in this forum who is working on something that he discovered and he will share it in time. No, it's not hundreds of polyps by the minute, just something he did and it worked. So I told him to reproduce those results again several times before he shares it.

I posted this because I was indeed wanting to see more out of this forum. All of the forums are hurting with very little traffic or post. I would ask that you support them as it keeps the hobby thriving.

I also posted this because I wanted to see us actual discuss and debate a topic and engage each other on the possibilities in this hobby and where it could take us and look what one topic did. I saw people from other sites who logged on, some even posted. I saw a few reefers who actual did some research to find or make logic of the information I gave. I did it to create a buzz in this thread and the feedback was great so thank you all.

I also wanted to seeif we could have an entire 4 day discussion without the use of names, ID's, Pricing etc, and it was heading the way I wanted it to. That is until I put my own foot in my mouth at post # 15 and ask Charles to post a pictures. All my fault.


I had lunch last week with a Marine Biologist. We spoke of a future project and I ask him the question I presented on page one.

The answer- Wycombes stated it clearly in post .# 20


“That receptor for a HUMAN hormone, as well as the analogous genes, will not be there on z and p's. . you are trying to make something synthetic to get into a mammalian cell that is a peptide, it needs a receptor in order to effect some change within specific genes of the cell. That receptor for a HUMAN hormone, as well as the analogous genes, will not be there on z and p's. “


Thus, it is impossible, based upon the sequence of events I posted to be true.


BUT !!! The Biologist also said it isn’t out of the question to someday discover a way to rapidly increase growth in corals far from what we are seeing on our own. But he doubts you could ever see the kind of growth I mentioned on page one.

Thanks again everyone, the waiting is over.

 

[kichimark]

Mucho- don't apologize. you have done nothing wrong. I too like crazy talk...its how I got my lady haha jk. Honestly I like to be mentally stimulated and this is what the post is doing. I went to the gym today and guess what? i was thinkn of it. I then went to the bank and thought of it all up to now. The whole testing thing is how I was trained and educated and when I see major faults its hard for me to get past it haha. I liked how it might have caused a growth in zooxanthellae but that wouldnt cause such an explosion. MY resoning for this is didn't it have it anyways and dont most of our zoos and palys have a sufficient amount? then all our tanks would be filled with them and we would see such growth. I would imagine only a certain amount would be inside the tissues. Iodine is already present and when people suppliment this I havnt heard of growth like that mentioned. I still think its plausible with the two hgh and the mysterious compound to form something useful BUT anyways.....mucho....im going on a limb here and say I am leaning more towards.....not true.....there i said it haha.

 

[kichimark]

Dang it haha. by the time i reply its all out haha. i need to type faster but the keys on the phone are tiny

 

[MUCHO REEF]

People were really hitting me up to post the answer. They didn't care if it was true or not, one guy couldn't sleep, LOL

 

[aquaph8]

Mucho, thanks for interesting thread, even though most of it is beyond my understanding. All the good threads are though.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

Great discussion- had my gears going!!

Still think it should have gone till wednesday!! I was really surprised to see 4 pages when I checked in today!

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Mucho, thanks for interesting thread, even though most of it is beyond my understanding. All the good threads are though.

It's over my head which is why I gave so many clues against.

1. 8.3 polyp daily growth average. That would mean near continuous growth.

2. HUMANE growth hormones

3. Something in your medicine cabinet

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Great discussion- had my gears going!!

Still think it should have gone till wednesday!! I was really surprised to see 4 pages when I checked in today!

I wanted to, but I didn't like the way it was going. The replies ran a consistent 10% of the views

 

[therman]

Just because it's HUMAN growth hormone doesn't mean it can't have a semi-targeted effect on a zoanthid. There's plenty of wacky convergence out there, and there's plenty of molecules that show up over and over in animals and plants without a recent common origin. How about tetrodotoxin? It's a potent toxin used by a cephalapod, a puffer, and several newt (amphibian) species...one as a venom, one as a tissue toxin, and one as a toxin exuded through the skin. The reason that molecule has persisted in those species however, is because all those species interact with organisms in their environment which have a shared, homologous structure (vertebrate nerves) that it has a very strong effect on.

Other examples could be some of the herbal remedies that induce miscarriages. These compounds obviously aren't used by plants in the birthing process, but something about them hits a receptor somewhere in a pregnant woman just right to have that specific effect. I would suggest using extreme caution when sticking your arm into a tank that you've pumped full of human growth hormones however, as it will have a targeted effect on your body without a doubt...(and probably make something shrivel up and fall off or grow a fat tumor).

I was a lurker in this thread. It seemed highly doubtful, though not impossible. Exponential growth as most corals exhibit does allow for such things. How about xenia polyps? I wouldn't be terribly surprised if under the right conditions you could go from one polyp to 200 in a month

Good job Mucho for getting an interesting discussion going.
Thanks,
Tim

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I hear you, but I wouldn't doubt that somebody, somewhere who has heard of this thread, doesn't take it upon him or herself to pursue this in a lab somewhere. Hmmm


Glad you tagged along, you guys were all great and it is further proof that there is a lot of talent here. I just hope it sparks more people to get involved and share, post, reply, it doesn't matter. Thanks again.

 

[kichimark]

The whole 8.3 polps per day didnt throw me off. I was thinking it could have grown exponetially at first ( one polyp now two, two now four, four now eight) then later slowed down its rate (why i asked if he was dosing several times or that one time). So in the end you might get an average like how you posted . what threw me off was the other substance. not knowing what it was drove me nuts in could it have the composition to change the hgh molecule to be of some use for the cora?. Then I thought it were unlikely but possible but leaning towards not true haha. awesome thread.