Tunze - False Advertisement?

[Allmost]

Maybe ask him to clarify the statement about the end cost of the pumps. I take it to mena the pump price may be increasing. But he has said repeatedly that existing customers will be taken care of. Are you an existing customer? I am. We will be taken care of.

I believe Rogers also said it is not final, and he will goto Germany to work on it, and that prices might go up.

makes me think you may have some inside info ? lol if not, lets wait for Rogers to confirm this. he did say we gotta wait lol

 

[James77]

Allmost, could you please quote Roger where you think he says they knew of this issue?

As I have already said, they have acknowledged that the testing shows they were off in the way they calculated the estimated flow on these pumps. They are going to address them.

Of course I do not work for Tunze. I am a little disappointed that the numbers are that out of whack. My only defense of them is against false statements or bashing them before they have been given a chance to correct the problem for current and future users. That is it. I have zeero reason to believe that this company will not come out and make it right. They have in the past, and will do it again.

 

[James77]

I believe Rogers also said it is not final, and he will goto Germany to work on it, and that prices might go up.

makes me think you may have some inside info ? lol if not, lets wait for Rogers to confirm this. he did say we gotta wait lol

Sorry...no inside info here. Im just going on what Roger has said. From my dealings with him over the years and watching him deal with others....I have no reason to doubt that this will be resolved. The company has stiff competition from EcoTech, they are not about to give them another pro for their pump against tunzes.

 

[tkeracer619]

I have been told it will be taken care of by a mechanic after they messed up my jeep but when I picked it up I had a $800 bill. What roger has said reads that they will fix it but you might have to pay more to get what was promised the first time. At least thats how most will read it. Not a good statement. In the mean time they continue to market thier pumps with known incorrect specs. If flow doesn't matter then what is the holdup in the marketing department? Imo is just damage control. Honest mistake or not they are setting themselves up for a pr nightmare.

Also it doesnt matter if you were happy before you found out you got half of what you paid for. The numbers don't lie and not everyone is going take it in stride.

 

[SkullV]

In the mean time they continue to market thier pumps with known incorrect specs. If flow doesn't matter then what is the holdup in the marketing department? Imo is just damage control. Honest mistake or not they are setting themselves up for a pr nightmare.
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This is my only issue with the entire matter. The second Tunze found out that the numbers were wrong the existing pumps sitting on the shelves should either have been recalled for new packaging or vendors should be issued cover labels to correct the stated GPH.

There are plenty of reefers out there who will never read or hear about this will continue to buy the incorrectly advertised parts. Even Tunze's web site still shows the old GPH numbers. The fact that they have not changed the advertised numbers subsequent to admitting that the numbers are incorrect should not be acceptable.

 

[Allmost]

yes :
" Our bag test results are consistent (within + or – 10%) with theoretical results on the pump models 6015, 6025, 6045, 6055, 6065 and 6085. This led us to rely on theoretical numbers. The biggest pump that a bag test can be performed on is the 6105 and the inaccuracy of flow numbers on the 6105 has a different origin than 6205 and 6305 inaccuracies. The 6205 and 6305 flow numbers were only based on theoretical calculations. The 6105, when released, was near specified flow and was bag tested with a result of 90% of theoretical, however, later modifications to reduce noise relied on theoretical flow numbers and flow was lost to these modifications. On models 6205 and 6305 the fundamental issue is that the theoretical flow cannot be reached due to overly constricted intake and output. "

"theoretical flow cannot be reached due to overly constricted intake and output." this is what we need written on the box, and clearly, they knew this when they built the unit and sold it.


I am sure they will come out of this too, they are a great company, I just do not like truth being covered ! and we both know MANY do that in this hobby ! look at the labels on all products lol 99% false info !

 

[Mindflux]

This is my only issue with the entire matter. The second Tunze found out that the numbers were wrong the existing pumps sitting on the shelves should either have been recalled for new packaging or vendors should be issued cover labels to correct the stated GPH.

There are plenty of reefers out there who will never read or hear about this will continue to buy the incorrectly advertised parts. Even Tunze's web site still shows the old GPH numbers. The fact that they have not changed the advertised numbers subsequent to admitting that the numbers are incorrect should not be acceptable.

Why should they change them? The retrofittable shrouds/impellers will bring them up to the advertised flow rates. If anything a simple notification slip should be included with each pump notating it's a known issue and will be fixed. The webpage can have a similar disclaimer on it if needed.

Tunze isn't a huge company guys. Stuff like this can be crushing, and stuff like this puts companies out of business. Lets give Tunze some breathing room.. they've acknowledged the issue and said they will fix it.

 

[James77]

In the mean time they continue to market thier pumps with known incorrect specs. .

And you know for a fact that they have no plans whatsoever to take care of it in the meantime. Maybe corrected lables are made up already and on there way. Maybe they are not. Maybe a simple note or change to the description will expalin the situation.

 

[SkullV]

Why should they change them? The retrofittable shrouds/impellers will bring them up to the advertised flow rates. If anything a simple notification slip should be included with each pump notating it's a known issue and will be fixed. The webpage can have a similar disclaimer on it if needed.

Tunze isn't a huge company guys. Stuff like this can be crushing, and stuff like this puts companies out of business. Lets give Tunze some breathing room.. they've acknowledged the issue and said they will fix it.

Because what MAY happen in the future is not an issue at this point. It is the fact that every single pump sold between now and the the possible retrofit is released is being sold under false pretenses. There is no defending this, no arguing this, no contending this. The packaging is a false advertisement in every sense of the term.

 

[reefsafe]

The whole situation reminds me of this:

 

[reefsafe]

sorry double post.

 

[Mindflux]

Because what MAY happen in the future is not an issue at this point. It is the fact that every single pump sold between now and the the possible retrofit is released is being sold under false pretenses. There is no defending this, no arguing this, no contending this. The packaging is a false advertisement in every sense of the term.

Tunze's packaging is pretty generic. I'm not even sure it mentions flow until you get into the manual.

Perhaps Roger can address your concern, but as far as I'm concerned a note in the box or a flyer printed for Tunze Endcaps or whatever needs to be done to notify the consumer there is a KNOWN issue being worked on is suffice for me IMHO.

 

[Allmost]

I have been told it will be taken care of by a mechanic after they messed up my jeep but when I picked it up I had a $800 bill. What roger has said reads that they will fix it but you might have to pay more to get what was promised the first time. At least thats how most will read it. Not a good statement. In the mean time they continue to market thier pumps with known incorrect specs. If flow doesn't matter then what is the holdup in the marketing department? Imo is just damage control. Honest mistake or not they are setting themselves up for a pr nightmare.

Also it doesnt matter if you were happy before you found out you got half of what you paid for. The numbers don't lie and not everyone is going take it in stride.

Exactly, and also just like Skull said .... if GPH isnt important, than why lie ?


IT IS IMPORTANT, why ? cause it classifies the pump in different levels ! if 6105's true GPH was written, it would not be comparable to a mp40 !!!

 

[Mindflux]

Exactly, and also just like Skull said .... if GPH isnt important, than why lie ?


IT IS IMPORTANT, why ? cause it classifies the pump in different levels ! if 6105's true GPH was written, it would not be comparable to a mp40 !!!

So what do you propose? Addendum stickers for 6 months and back to old packaging? I'm sure they're working on a way to address this concern.

 

[Allmost]

And you know for a fact that they have no plans whatsoever to take care of it in the meantime. Maybe corrected lables are made up already and on there way. Maybe they are not. Maybe a simple note or change to the description will expalin the situation.

rogers said there will be price jump :

"As I said, existing customers will be taken care of, we expect all upgrades to be retrofittable, i.e. just a new prop, or new propeller housing. They may not be free, it is possible at the end the pumps price has to increase a little because it will cost more to build, but any cost would be very minimal and for the most popular model, 6105 we do expect it to be free and very simple. "

 

[reefsafe]

says it right on the box

 

[Allmost]

So what do you propose? Addendum stickers for 6 months and back to old packaging? I'm sure they're working on a way to address this concern.

they knew this from the day 6105 was built, and now that the secret is out, they are taking action.

Imagine if Toyota did that with our car's and its breaks !!! LOL "oh yea ! sometimes the car wont stop, now that u know, we will fix it"

 

[TheFishMan65]

"theoretical flow cannot be reached due to overly constricted intake and output." this is what we need written on the box, and clearly, they knew this when they built the unit and sold it.

How do you know the knew this when the built them. It is entirely possible they did math on how the impeller will create water flow without concern for the shroud. Then when the were notified of the problem they did test where the shroud was removed saw the increased flow and deduced the problem. Somewhere in this thread there was a comment on a fixed impeller test (or some such) which lead me to this conclusion.

I also think somewhere in here that they do not agree with the testing 100% and there maybe a better testing mode which might alter everyone results. If a different test was performed and they met the GPH and everyone else did not. Then which test do we believe.

 

[Mindflux]

rogers said there will be price jump

possible and probable are entirely different.

 

[Mindflux]

they knew this from the day 6105 was built, and now that the secret is out, they are taking action.

How do you know Tunze knew from the day it was built? They've never said that. They have been estimating flow based on calculations listed above, and for all intents and purposes those calculations have been accurate until they crossed some size threshold with the pumps.

Now Tunze will likely invest in more accurate testing methodology (like the advanced aquaria article uses), which I am sure is not cheap by any means.