Turning OFF my skimmer

[Mudbeaver]

My tank is a high nutrience 150 G reef tank , principaly because its a softy tank, but also because its a system connected to a display refugium 75g . I also have a NPS zone in there( high dosing of supplements) Gorgonians, suncorals,clams and sponges all ove the tank. Since most of my tank requires pytoplancton and brine shrimp in fair amount, i dose broadly.

I realise that what ever i dose gets skimmed OFF by my skimmer. Its rates for 300 Gal (Reef Octopus SUPER SRO 3000INT In-Sump Protein Skimmer.) and my system is a total 210 G system .

But if i leave it on i waste my dosing formulas and supplements. So i unplug the colection cup so the water just flow right through. Although it doesn't collect anything at least it gets areated .

Anyone else do or have to do this. If so how long do you do it.

The refugium feeding the reef by gravity

I write big for my iphone friends.

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[Vinny Kreyling]

I would just take the collection cup off if all you want is aeration.

 

[Mudbeaver]

Some one suggested to put it on a timer for 24h per week, does this sound reasonable? I need more input before i do this for real.

 

[wildman926]

Why change something that is working?

 

[Mudbeaver]

Why change something that is working?

Yes but i'm sure i should do some skimming at some point no? This is uncharted territory for me , i'm just not sure about doing this all the time. Thats what i was told some do, but skimming just 24 h a week seems a lot of waste staying in the tank. I need more input on this by people who've done it or doing it . I've heard of people runing without skimmers but is it viable....thats the question.

Anyway thanks for your interest.

 

[reefgeezer]

Maybe just adjust the water level inside the skimmer lower to produce a dryer foam? That will allow the skimmer to push foam up into the cup when organics get high but not so much otherwise.

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

You are looking for added doses to remain in the water longer without skimming them out. To do this you have 3 options - 1 the skimmer gets shut down - 2 the collection cup is removed allowing for extra water movement keeping things in suspension,
and 3 - if you want more gas exchange to boot turn the pump on.
The only way to determine if the skimmer has to operate is trial & error in your situation.

 

[wildman926]

Yes but i'm sure i should do some skimming at some point no? This is uncharted territory for me , i'm just not sure about doing this all the time. Thats what i was told some do, but skimming just 24 h a week seems a lot of waste staying in the tank. I need more input on this by people who've done it or doing it . I've heard of people runing without skimmers but is it viable....thats the question.

Anyway thanks for your interest.

Skim 24x7. You are supposed to remove what does not get eaten, or it decays/rots and adds waste to the system, which you will then have an algae problem.

BTW - beautiful tanks.

 

[Mudbeaver]

You are looking for added doses to remain in the water longer without skimming them out. To do this you have 3 options - 1 the skimmer gets shut down - 2 the collection cup is removed allowing for extra water movement keeping things in suspension,
and 3 - if you want more gas exchange to boot turn the pump on.
The only way to determine if the skimmer has to operate is trial & error in your situation.

I think your right i'll have to go by trial and error. My set up is a bit unique cause it contains 3 zones sort of all 3 needing nutrient rich environment.

My NPS zone needs, brine shrimps and phytoplacton.

My Macroalgaes need regular dosing of iron, seachem flourish, iodine

My softies including my clams and sponges likes extra phyto and filter feeder food.

 

[Mudbeaver]

Skim 24x7. You are supposed to remove what does not get eaten, or it decays/rots and adds waste to the system, which you will then have an algae problem.

BTW - beautiful tanks.

Thanks for the compliment. Yes i know that and thats my first reflex, thats why i use to leave it on. But from my readings on, Sponges, gorgonians, clams, and other filter feeders, they don't comsume their food, like fish, that is immediatly.

Its taken over a certain amount of time, by filtration in the case of sponges, gorgonians have to have a chance to "grab" ingest deploy polyps and ingest, its not like done over 15 min. Hence waterflow and time laps .

The same with absorbtion of iron and other elements. Its not consumed the same way. And if the skimmer takes everything out whats the point of dosing, from the bottle if 10 min later its in my cup to be dumped.

Makes no sense to me to pour supplement if i don't give it time to be consumed, no? I'm just asking, this . And then i got this message to turn my skimmer on only 24h during the week, wow that was a surprise.

A far cry from my habits, lol. Thats why i posted about if anybody do turn if OFF and how long.

 

[Timfish]

. . . I need more input on this by people who've done it or doing it . I've heard of people runing without skimmers but is it viable....thats the question.

Anyway thanks for your interest.

Nice tank! I am very interested in your long term success with the sponges and gorgonians.

Here's some skimmerless systems I've been running:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uf5IyXvajg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eCQSVdqBQA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs_etaHSOfQ

This system had clams successfully reproduce (not Tridacna, see http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2174608 )
http://youtu.be/5AnmQXmE8d0

Note the bad red hair algae (Lyngbya) problem at the beginning of this video. It took over from green hair algae that showed up about month three (wish I'd started taking picturtes sooner). The maturation process pretty much followed the chart given by Nilsen and Fossa on pg 164 of Vol I "The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium" albeit slightly slower but all the nuisance cleared up without any remediation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjMFWHC4uBM

Ken Feldman, et al, has published a very good series of articles on his research looking at GAC, TOC and skimming. Here are the links for those interested:

Ganulated Activated Carbon pt. 1 & 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1

Total Organic Carbon in Aquaria
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2

Protein Skimate Analysis
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

Protein Skimmer Performance
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature

Bacterial Counts in Aquaria vs Reefs
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature1

And a final thought here's a comment made by Charles Delbeck in Coral Nov/Dec 2010 pg 127 "When I see the colors of some of these low nutrient tanks, I can't help but be reminded of bleached coral reefs . . . Our crystal-clear aquaria do not come close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs. And so when we create low-nutrient water conditions, we still have to deal with the rest of a much more complex puzzle."

 

[Fredfish]

Mudbeaver. That is a stunning tank!

 

[Mudbeaver]

Nice tank! I am very interested in your long term success with the sponges and gorgonians.

Here's some skimmerless systems I've been running:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Uf5IyXvajg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eCQSVdqBQA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs_etaHSOfQ

This system had clams successfully reproduce (not Tridacna, see http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2174608 )
http://youtu.be/5AnmQXmE8d0

Note the bad red hair algae (Lyngbya) problem at the beginning of this video. It took over from green hair algae that showed up about month three (wish I'd started taking picturtes sooner). The maturation process pretty much followed the chart given by Nilsen and Fossa on pg 164 of Vol I "The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium" albeit slightly slower but all the nuisance cleared up without any remediation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjMFWHC4uBM

Ken Feldman, et al, has published a very good series of articles on his research looking at GAC, TOC and skimming. Here are the links for those interested:

Ganulated Activated Carbon pt. 1 & 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1

Total Organic Carbon in Aquaria
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2

Protein Skimate Analysis
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

Protein Skimmer Performance
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature

Bacterial Counts in Aquaria vs Reefs
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature1

And a final thought here's a comment made by Charles Delbeck in Coral Nov/Dec 2010 pg 127 "When I see the colors of some of these low nutrient tanks, I can't help but be reminded of bleached coral reefs . . . Our crystal-clear aquaria do not come close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs. And so when we create low-nutrient water conditions, we still have to deal with the rest of a much more complex puzzle."

This is AWSOME info man thank you very much, i've added your vid to my collection, too good. to follow my thread here; http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2327805&page=6

 

[Mudbeaver]

Mudbeaver. That is a stunning tank!

Thanks you can follow me here for more details;
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2327805&page=6

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I realise that what ever i dose gets skimmed OFF by my skimmer.

What are you dosing that you believe is being skimmed out?

 

[slief]

Damn Mud, your tanks are looking great.

If it were me, I'd keep the skimmer running 24/7. Not everything you dose is getting pulled out via the skimmer.If you are really worried about that, dose directly into the return pump section of your sump. I'm sure most of what you dose would show on the test kits. If you are showing low levels, dose more as needed. If nothing else, just leave the collection cup off as you have been doing but I doubt you are saving much by doing so. As for shutting the skimmer down for 24 hours, that would cause your skimmer to have to go back through minor break in and as such, I would avoid that. Also you have the gas exchange and dissolved O2 provided by the skimmer. Both of which are valuable contributions from the skimmer over and above nutrient export.

That said, judging by the health and success of your tank, it's obvious you are doing things right. I wouldn't change much if anything other than perhaps not removing the skimmer cup but even that probably isn't having much if any impact on your tanks health at this point.

 

[Mudbeaver]

Damn Mud, your tanks are looking great.

If it were me, I'd keep the skimmer running 24/7. Not everything you dose is getting pulled out via the skimmer.If you are really worried about that, dose directly into the return pump section of your sump. I'm sure most of what you dose would show on the test kits. If you are showing low levels, dose more as needed. If nothing else, just leave the collection cup off as you have been doing but I doubt you are saving much by doing so. As for shutting the skimmer down for 24 hours, that would cause your skimmer to have to go back through minor break in and as such, I would avoid that. Also you have the gas exchange and dissolved O2 provided by the skimmer. Both of which are valuable contributions from the skimmer over and above nutrient export.

That said, judging by the health and success of your tank, it's obvious you are doing things right. I wouldn't change much if anything other than perhaps not removing the skimmer cup but even that probably isn't having much if any impact on your tanks health at this point.

In my explanation i say when i talk about shutting down my skimmer, i don't mean pulling the plug; i mean letting the skimmate escape from the cup. I leave the skimmer on to areate the water and keep the gas exchange going. After a certain length of time i put the little plug back onto the cup.

As an example after dosing the skimmer skimmed my supplement right out of the water in no time. How do i know; we all know how skimmate smells right. Well that water was 1- just barely colored and it didn't smell all ; i hadn't touched the dial or made any ajustment , it was still set for dry skimmate. 2- after a very short time it stopped as sudden as it started. The color was what i had dosed too.

Another thing is i made a mistake by choosing a skimmer too strong for the tank i think. rated for a 300G while my whole system is 210-230G ; it sucks up extremely well anything that is floating in there. Its a very good skimmer, no doubt about it, i'm please with it. I just need to figure out how to work with it lol.

Right now i'm on my third day, it took 3 days for the supplement to be absorbed by the tank inhabitants. The question can be asked am i dosing too much. i have a huge bioload that requires lots of attentions, NPS gorgonians and sponges, ordinary songes, ordinary gorgonians, clams, my reef is Softies only, then i have a huge macroalgae tank that requires lots of iron to help in the export of my nitrates and phosphates, since i've turn my GFO OFF.

So fauna marin is a huge part of my dosing ; Ultramin S,N,F,Ultra seafan, Ultra clam,Ultra organic, Reef Roids ,Live Phytoplancton, Acropower, i have my own supplement receipe that seem to work , i experiment with each batch and record the differences in responces with pictures and measurements via camera lens. And my Aqualog, thats a great site for keeping a log , they have graphs according to your reading its a perfect way to back check your steps and keep schedules.

This is a few article on the subjec of iron and why i dose so much of it;

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10750-005-4363-3

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php#13

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[Mudbeaver]

Quite remarquable

Quite remarquable

Very interesting, the old saying only different style, a lesson in humility maybe, just brilliant. Amazing result. With no skimmer and very little technology, no sum even. The sound a bit muffle but the subject is worth listening too.

<iframe width="854" height="510" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_PKjd-TA1kM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Turning my skimmer OFF , seems ridiculous when listening to this guy, lol. Any way a few hours Off wont necessary hurt i guess.​

 

[Fishy 1]

Hey mud buddy, if it were me I'd have the skimmer on a timer and set to skim fairly dry. Then I'd set the timer to turn off the skimmer when I dosed and then turn it on 6 hours later or so and then run until you dose next. That way the tank will have some time to soak up the nutrients before the skimmer does. And since your running a softie reef you don't want super clean SPS water and leaving the skimmer off for a bit and skimming dry should give you the results you want. Just my 2 cents. The tanks are looking great by the way:thumbsup:

 

[Mudbeaver]

Hey mud buddy, if it were me I'd have the skimmer on a timer and set to skim fairly dry. Then I'd set the timer to turn off the skimmer when I dosed and then turn it on 6 hours later or so and then run until you dose next. That way the tank will have some time to soak up the nutrients before the skimmer does. And since your running a softie reef you don't want super clean SPS water and leaving the skimmer off for a bit and skimming dry should give you the results you want. Just my 2 cents. The tanks are looking great by the way:thumbsup:

Yep thats my aim actually, just trying to figure out the time set to input in my apex. Thats why i'm observing the time it takes for the solutions to be taken in and not be captured by the skimmer, if its 4-6 hours more or less. Observation and then i'll set it in motion. Thanks bud see you at the new place lol :thumbsup: