ULNS SPS System - Scrub the In-Sump DSB or not?

[jroovers]

I'm running a 120 SPS dominant system with an in-stand 40 breeder sump that I've baffled to have three compartments - a skimmer, a return section, and a refugium with some live rock and a DSB. I would say I'm fairly close to ULNS with my Biopellets - I don't run the "recommended" amount, but have about 250 to 300 ml online. I've given up growing macro algae in the fuge as it doesn't really grow. The sump seems to collect a lot of detrius and I can suck that up and out easily enough in the return and skimmer sections, but it is a bit of a mess in that section. I hate filter socks and don't have much time to be changing them out every few days.

I was thinking of taking out replacing my DSB with fresh sand, but is it really processing that many nutrients? I am debating taking it out altogether and leaving my fuge as simply a couple of chunks of live rock with bare bottom. That way, when doing water changes, I can just vacuum out the entirety of my sump and almost treat it as a water change tank detrius trap. Thoughts?

 

[Allmost]

I used to have a 65G tank with the sump same way as ures.

after 1 year of Zeovit on that tank, I decided to remove the DSB in sump.

EVERYTHING colored up and growth increased 10 folds 2 weeks after removing the DSB, and I concluded that it was just a po4 pit in my system. lowering calcification in the whole
system.

if you do decide to remove it, make sure to wash the sump ! I didnt do that and the residue of the sand bed did cause some Issues iwth SPS which was learned a week after.

this is what it looked like lol
<a href="http://s1084.beta.photobucket.com/user/bigray1002/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j416/bigray1002/IMG-20110124-00027.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

<a href="http://s1084.beta.photobucket.com/user/bigray1002/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j416/bigray1002/IMG-20110319-00074.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

 

[jroovers]

Yes, if I do remove it I'll make sure to give it a thorough cleaning. Thanks for your input!

 

[toothman]

For what it is worth I was having a problem about a year ago with nitrate, it was generally about 10 ppm. I have a 55 gallon refug., with 6 plus inches of sand in it, 2 yrs old. The whole system is 500 gallons. I DECIDED TO TAKE IT OUT OF THE SYSTEM LOOP, my nitrates actually got better.

Here is the interesting part, after about 2 months I tested the refug, and the nitrates were still 10 ppm. ( it does have a circulation pump in it and a bit of chaeto. ) So if it can not lower the 55 gallons of water, which previously had a load of 500 gallons, I guess it really did not do anything.

I was always a proponent of remote dsb, but no longer.

I would say just use a sock as the water enters the sump.

If you really want sand, put it in a container in the sump, so you can easily take it out when it gets older.

 

[jroovers]

I did the socks for a while, I'd rather just let the detrius accumulate and siphon it out as part of my once every one to two weeks water change.

 

[seashark]

Interesting thread I will follow this one , as I am debating to remove sand from my fuge as well .

 

[jroovers]

Anyhoo, a little update, last night I removed the DSB from my fuge. I cleaned it out thoroughly with a shop vac so it was spotless, and was careful not to get any of the water, sand or sludge into the rest of the sump for obvious reasons. It was pretty gross. Nothing left in the fuge now but some liverock. We'll see how things go from here. I also was overdue for replenishing my biopellets, which I also did last night.

 

[rowdy29can]

I fully believe you won't regret dumping your DSB Jordan. You will notice a big difference long term. Also with bio pellets they just degrade over time and all you need to do I thought is just top up every 6-8months? That is what I was told but not 100% sure. Either way you made the right choice. Cheers!:thumbsup:

 

[jroovers]

I have been running my BP about a year and four months. This is the second time I've replaced them. They get smaller and tumble a bit differently. I hadn't changed them out in probably 8 months or so and thought it was a good time for replenshment. I just pre-soak in RO/DI and then dump out the old, and put in the new. A bunch of stuff gets in the reactor too - lots of sponges and other life that needed to be cleaned out.

I'll let you know how it goes with the lack of DSB.

 

[Ptyochromis]

Changing the sand sounds like a horrible idea. The release of sulphates and DOC, not to mention the death of all the anoxicbacter once exposed to oxygen. DSBs generally take a while to get nice and seeded anyway so you would only be setting yourself back and exposing the tank to instabilities.

Chaeto should be easy to grow, light it 24/7 and it will help manage night time pH swings. It is also an effective PO4 and NO3 sponge. Light it with a few T8s or this, and it will explode. Mine doubles in size weekly under the same light.

If you have finesand you can always add a holothuria to help control the detritus. Just do your reading first

 

[jroovers]

Changing the sand sounds like a horrible idea. The release of sulphates and DOC, not to mention the death of all the anoxicbacter once exposed to oxygen. DSBs generally take a while to get nice and seeded anyway so you would only be setting yourself back and exposing the tank to instabilities.

Chaeto should be easy to grow, light it 24/7 and it will help manage night time pH swings. It is also an effective PO4 and NO3 sponge. Light it with a few T8s or this, and it will explode. Mine doubles in size weekly under the same light.

If you have finesand you can always add a holothuria to help control the detritus. Just do your reading first

I had my DSB in my fuge, and as noted above, I was careful not to get any of the sand/water from the fuge into the other compartments of the sump for the reasons you noted. I did not change the sand, I removed it entirely. I scooped it out by hand and did the last little bit with a shop vac, and then wiped it down. Spotless. So no risk whatsover of polluting the rest of the tank. I am not putting a DSB back in, that was my original question, is it really needed in a ULNS? I got rid of chaeto quite a while ago, as it just wouldn't grow and made more of a mess than anything. I think between my biopellets, carbon/GFO reactor, strong skimming and regular water changes I will be able to keep my nitrates and phosphates under control. I think my DSB was becoming more of a detrius trap and was detrimental in terms of nutrient export, as opposed to positive.

 

[toothman]

Can you give a follow up in a month or two and tell your experiences

 

[jroovers]

Can you give a follow up in a month or two and tell your experiences

Will do

 

[dvanacker]

Hope this works well for you Jordan....not that i have any reason to think it wont. I dont know if i would have done the pellets at the same time though. Also interesting that you replace rather than top up.

 

[jroovers]

Hope this works well for you Jordan....not that i have any reason to think it wont. I dont know if i would have done the pellets at the same time though. Also interesting that you replace rather than top up.

The pellets just get small and start to move differently in the reactor, hence the replacement. Not sure if there is a change associated with their effectivenss due to volume or decreased surface area as they become smaller. My thought process was that with the DSB removed, that I may need a bit of a boost in nitrate reduction, and fresh pellets couldn't hurt in that regard. To be honest, I'm not too worried about my nitrates, I think my phosphates have more been the issue, and I'm hoping the DSB removal will help with that. So far, so good. Everyone looks happy - in fact, some SPS look happier, but this just could be the placebo effect. Knock on wood though. The one thing I have noticed in the BB sump fuge section is detrius accumulating already. This will make vacuuming of it easier, without resorting to nasty socks.

 

[lopeolinda]

Interesting thread I will follow this one