Upscale Aquatics Rant

W

wilawalo

New member
After feeling excited on Thursday from buying what I thought was dwarf seahorses, the thrill has gone away, and now I have a hateful phone battle going on. So first I will clear somethings up:
1. I really need to work on being so nieve. What a sign or person says is not nessisarily the truth.
2. Always be prepared for the un-expected.
3. Have good people and friends that are willing to help when you are in a bind. Thank you Val, Diane, and Rob.
So here is the story and you guys can decide whether or not to shop at Upscale or not (I can't make anyone not shop there) On Thursday I bought what I was told was dwarf seahorses, and a 3 gal pico tank. I had water and rocks already cycled and ready to go. So I posted pics of it for you guys to see. Diane informed me that they looked like redi seahorses, baby ones and that they would grow out of thier tank within a month. I thought hmmmm I should call Upscale and see what is up. During this time I notice that the pump on the three gallon is working and then shutting down, which according to the company is not how the tank should work. I called Upscale today and talked to the skinny guy over the phone. He said bring everything in and we'll see what we can do. So I did. I got there and he said I needed to talk to his brother, not him about the return but that he was not there right now but will be back in 20 min. So skinny guy answers the phone and talks to the larger brother and repeats what has been said. Basically it boiled down to I am SOL, I calmly asked if something is broken that they sell they would refund the money right? He said yes but you bought it on sale, and too bad. He started yelling and told me to come back in 20 min. So I ended up calling the Plainfield Police, and was told they could not do anything but to contact the better buisness place in Plainfield and see what can get done. And to go in and try one more time.
I have given these two people hundreds of dollars worth of buisness. After talking again and no sign of the brother, I decided to leave, I left crying. I will call the BBB in Plainfield, and maybe file a small claim against them for they have no sign posted on thier return policy. But a friend in Naperville came through with her cycled tank as a gift so the horses are good in a 10gal. for now. But after today I don't think I will be going back. Plus thank god my husband was not with me, he may be a skinny guy but he loves me and would never allow someone to call me those names. (And he prob. would have eneded in jail for ag. assault lol) Please don't make the same $263.00 mistake I did.
 
And this is why you:
A) Don't stock a tank until the entire set up has been up and running and you are comfortable with the ins and outs of your new tank.
B) Do your research if you are purchasing livestock. If you have your heart set on something very specific you should bring a photo/description of the animal with you.
and
C) Make sure you understand the return/exchange policy of the store you are purchasing from and get it in writing when making a major purchase.

I can understand not taking something back as a return once it has been opened. Frequently with something like that you will have to rely on the manufacturers warranty, and will have to contact the manufacturer of the product to get replacement parts, which is where A comes into play.

You say in your post at the end about your husband not allowing someone to "call me those names" and yet in your description up above there is no mention of it getting heated and someone insulting you. In fact, you go so far as to state that you remained calm during the event. What names in specific were you called and how did it manage to get so heated that you were called names by a staff member of a retail store? I'd like to know how it got to the point of insults and what those insults were.

While I understand that you are frustrated right now, and certainly no retail staff should ever insult a customer (although I don't know why you would call the police unless someone laid a hand on you in the store??), and it sounds like someone at the store should make their return/exchange policy more clear, you've got to admit that this is as much your fault as it is theirs.
 
not her fault at all that store has a habbit of screwing people there prices are astronomical and they will tell you anything to sell you something. Once your more educated they wont even deal with you and start saying to buy on line. I was going in when they first opened hoping for a decent lfs in the area and once I saw them smoking and swearing in the store I figured that they wont be my lfs. Sorry to here that in this day in age
 
You only get screwed if you let yourself get screwed.

You never purchase major livestock and a tank on the same shopping trip.
You never take the word of a LFS employee about livestock, do your own research and know what you are looking for.
Make sure you understand the return/exchange/what-happens-if-this-dies policy.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11250754#post11250754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sarahkucera
And this is why you:
A) Don't stock a tank until the entire set up has been up and running and you are comfortable with the ins and outs of your new tank.
B) Do your research if you are purchasing livestock. If you have your heart set on something very specific you should bring a photo/description of the animal with you.
and
C) Make sure you understand the return/exchange policy of the store you are purchasing from and get it in writing when making a major purchase.

I can understand not taking something back as a return once it has been opened. Frequently with something like that you will have to rely on the manufacturers warranty, and will have to contact the manufacturer of the product to get replacement parts, which is where A comes into play.

You say in your post at the end about your husband not allowing someone to "call me those names" and yet in your description up above there is no mention of it getting heated and someone insulting you. In fact, you go so far as to state that you remained calm during the event. What names in specific were you called and how did it manage to get so heated that you were called names by a staff member of a retail store? I'd like to know how it got to the point of insults and what those insults were.

While I understand that you are frustrated right now, and certainly no retail staff should ever insult a customer (although I don't know why you would call the police unless someone laid a hand on you in the store??), and it sounds like someone at the store should make their return/exchange policy more clear, you've got to admit that this is as much your fault as it is theirs.
Click to expand...

Huh?

Go re-read her post.

#1 - The tank was not operating properly. She states that the manufacturer told her this. She called and was told to bring it in. When she did and it was, I assume, determined that it was defective, they would not accept the return because it was "purchased on sale." Defective merchandise should be allowed to be returned, sale or not.

#2 - I have been buying fish for years and have been with people buying fish for years and I can honestly say that I have never seen anyone "take a picture with them". There are such things as "truth in labeling" and "truth in advertising." If they sell a seahorse as a "dwarf" and it is in fact not a dwarf, then it is their problem to fix and not the consumer's.

#3 - From what she has posted, it sounds like she was getting jerked around and she did say that the guy started yelling at her. Who knows why? Does it matter? He should not have yelled at her no matter what the reason.

Her only "fault" sounds like it was from trusting this store to sell her what they were advertising and expecting them to stand behind the products they sell. Other than that, based on her story, this store was totally at fault. No matter what, if they sold the seahorses as dwarfs and they are not, they are wrong. If they sold her a pico for any other seahorses other than dwarf seahorses, they are wrong. If they yelled at her, they are wrong.

So, unless this person is completely full of it, this store is wrong and should not be trusted if they do no make it right.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11250852#post11250852 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sarahkucera
You only get screwed if you let yourself get screwed.
Click to expand...
I agree with your point that one should always verify that their setup works properly before adding livestock. That's always a good idea. But I think the getting screwed comment is a bit harsh. Its possible to due your due diligence as a hobbyist and still get screwed by someone who knows more than you do if they have the intent of exploiting the knowledge gap in order to defraud you. IMO that's a damned good reason to use a credit card on all of your purchases. If there is any misrepresentation by the staff (intentional or unintentional) about things like genus and species, the credit card company will help you make the situation right if you provide them with appropriate documentation. Having the species name written on your receipt, and a photo of the fish is a good place to start.

WRT the broken tank, I agree that a broken product should be returnable for an immediate exchange with no questions asked, unless it was specifically advertised as broken and sold at an appropriate discount. Any LFS that is honest and values its walk-in clientele would be smart enough to know that you have to take care of your customers in a situation like this one. If they don't help you then what are the other options? Shipping the merchandise back to the manufacturer and leaving the fish out of water while you wait for it to be repaired?

If I were in this situation I would make a call to the owner of the shop and give them a second chance to make the situation right. Sometimes you just won't get anywhere talking to a minion, and that only leads to a stressful situation for everyone. Hopefully you can contact the owner and plead your case to him, and he'll do what it takes to make the situation right.

One thing I've noticed in the past few days is that there have been a number of threads with rants about an LFS where it seems that the rants started immediately after a bad interaction with a non-owner at the store. To be fair, it would be better to exhaust your options at the store in order to avoid prematurely starting a rant thread about them.

Just my two cents... Good luck!
 
jglackin- Couldn't agree with you more.

sarahkucera- A little harsh, aren't ya? How are you gonna know if it works unless you open it? :confused: Sale item or not, a good lfs will stand by there product.
 
I had a few things purchased from them given to me as gifts that I thought were great until I did some research and found out the "critter" that was purchased would never work in my tank, I never saw him after 10 seconds in the tank, "and found out what was paid for them."

Good luck with the situation, but you are probably waisting your time with them. Contacting the BBB really is your only avenue to take right now.
 
"." Is very nice until you are the one getting screwed by an unscrupulous LFS.

I actually appreciate these types of posts. There are many LFSs in the area and, I am sure we can all agree, not all of them are overly reputable. I may not buy all of the rants, hook, line and sinker, so to speak, but I do value the opinions and feedback of fellow aquariasts' and their experiences. Far more than I do the opinions of the shills on the board.

If these posts are a problem for some, there is a very simple solution, don't open them.
 
oh yeah, those guys are real jerks. i've dealt with them and knowing how tough of a business this can be could not believe they way i was treated, not to mention the prices. But they set them clearly so that's fine, i knew what i was paying.
When i first started out i bought a cleaner shrip from them and asked about how to acclimate it. The younger brother put me on trial. He was like "well how do you do it" very rude. i also asked him if they supplement with calcium, i was green, and he quipped back "hell yeah how you think our sh** looks so dam good" again rude.
after leaving i just laughed about they way they did business and promise to never buy their again. i did go back though about a month ago and no one even said boo to me. their was to other people in the store. Whatever...just be careful if you go there and do not ask for advice. the older brother is a lot nicer, i think he should maybe get rid of the younger guy.
 
The owner (Mike) is the younger guys "brother" (Dan). I don't think they will split up, as this is their 3 or 4th location they've moved to. Mike (the nicer, more knowledgeable brother covered in tatoos) works another job, ironically providing wholesale to other LFS in the area. This thread won't make a bit of difference to them, as they have a very loyal following. I'm not one though, and as previously stated, when you go there, be prepared for gagging on smoke, swearing, and death metal music and offensive video's in the back round. Dan is very UNknowledgeable. Mike knows what he's doing though. I will never take my kids there again for sure. I've owned my own business for 15 years, I know what dealing with the public is like. They don't care about customers, only their little clicky following. We refer to them casually as "the fish nazi's".
 
See, it sounds like Wilawalo is not off base with her accounting of the story. It sounds like like these guys have a regular pattern of disregard for the customer and this thread just saved me to time of having to go deal with it myself. I will not go there,

Thanks.
 
taylor t hit it on the head, i assumed they must have a real good business going on the maintenance side of things because you could tell they didn't need me, plus the prices made that clearer too. my bro-in-law lives real close to them and he said that place is real clicky too, guess he had a falling out with mike too, never got the whole story tho.
 
Sarah,
I hardly ever post. I have been steering clear of reefcentral lately due to comments such as yours. The holier than thou, tang police etc drive me crazy. Obviously text can come across differently, but advice should not create a confrontational tone. A member was seeking advice and looking for some back up. We were all new to the hobby at one time. I certainly dont disagree with your points, however, a more helpful approach will benefit all.

NR
 
pescadero
You're right, the phrase is a bit harsh, although it was the quickest and most concise way to get the point across. I've never seen a single person on this forum recommend purchasing tank and livestock in the same day at the same time, as this is a hobby that sometimes would test the patience of the calmest of people.

jglackin
I did reread her post, and it really feels like one of those stories that has two radically different sides. If she had stayed calm she would not have been walking out in tears and calling the police to try to force a store employee to give her back her money. Seriously, who calls the police to try to get their money back from a retailer?

#1) I don't agree at all that non-working mechandise should always be allowed to be returnable for cash refund. Depending on circumstance, returnable for exchange for exact item or similar if exact is not in stock is reasonable. But she only states it was on sale, not what kind of sale it was. Closeouts, end of season sales, and open box sales shouldn't be returnable unless you get it in writing from an owner/manager.

#2) She wasn't looking to return the seahorses that were sold to her in error. She kept the animals and put them in a setup that she got for free. If she came here crying that the store lied to her and sold her something that they or their wholesaler had misidentified and they refused to provide her with at least a store credit and order her the correct animal I would think far poorer of them.

At no point in this story does she state that she spoke with the owner/manager of the store and at no point does she state that she asked for store credit, a replacement pump, or an even/identical item exchange. After rereading her story, it appears that she walked in looking for her money back on the tank because she got a free tank from someone else and then got upset when she couldn't get her money back.
An employee, even if he is the brother/relative/whatever of the owner is only going to follow store policy. It is up to the owner of a small independent store to decide when and how to work around a policy for the good of the business.
Yes, bottom line is that it isn't good for business to treat your customers rudely, it isn't good to smoke in a store (and starting Jan 1st that will be illegal as well), it isn't good to play curse-laden death metal in a store where families might be, and I'm sure the list goes on. It's also a horrible idea to sell livestock and the tank it is going to be housed in at the exact same time, and they both set themselves up for trouble by doing so.
I'll say again, it sounds like they are as much to blame as she is.
----She for rushing things with her tank, being unable to identify her livestock, (as far as I can tell) demanding cash and nothing but cash back, and not even following through on a face to face meeting with the owner to try to rectify the situation.
---The store for selling misidentified livestock, sales clerks providing poor customer service, and all around general rudeness.

It's not a store I've ever been in, although if I walked into a store and it reeked like cigarette smoke and had the general atmosphere that you are all describing, it wouldn't be a store I would stay in long enough to make a purchase anyways.
 
Nathan, sorry, you posted while I was typing!
At no point in this "rant" does the OP seek advice from anyone on how to handle this. All she does is bash the LFS. I simply point out how perhaps she is as much to blame in this as the LFS and make several clear and concise points.

Grand
I agree that the employees of a store are a reflection of their management and their poor behavior reflects directly upon their manager, I also believe that arguing with an employee once they've made their decision clear is fruitless and only causes frustration. If you don't get an answer you like from a sales associate you need to take it up the ladder and also be willing to be flexible to negotiate a settlement that is acceptable to all parties involved.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11252468#post11252468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sarahkucera
Seriously, who calls the police to try to get their money back from a retailer?
Click to expand...

Someone that feels that they were robbed/ripped off and doesn't understand that it is a civil matter and not a criminal matter.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11252468#post11252468 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sarahkucera
At no point in this story does she state that she spoke with the owner/manager of the store and at no point does she state that she asked for store credit, a replacement pump, or an even/identical item exchange.
Click to expand...

You cannot speak to the store owner/manager if the store owner/manager's brother kicks you out of the store. You can't speak to the store owner/manager if the store owner/manager refuses to speak with you.

I have never been there either, but it appears that the general consensus, with the people around here that have been there, back up her claimed experience as being an accurate reflection of their demeanor and general attitude towards customers. This, at least, is plainly obvious to me. Why are you still harping on this poor girl as this issue being "her own fault"?

I can think of at least a couple of dozen stores that would have made this right and never thought twice about it. This store appears to be a bad seed and people should be warned about them. What's your issue?
 
Upscale Aquatics sucks...plain and simple.

Their prices are not just a little high, they are outrageous.

The younger brother is rude and not very helpful. I laughed about the younger brother boasting about how their tanks look so good...if you look at that display tank to the right as you pay at the register...it doesn't look that great at all.

The thing I wonder about that place is how they have managed to stay in business this long...I mean who really goes there? They must have a loyal following really buffaloed...

Sarahkucera...you, like so many other people on this website, have no idea what you are talking about. In the future, do this website a favor and refrain from your ignorant posts.
 
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